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POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Carlton


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21 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

You know you’re old when 7.50 on a Friday night is too late.

Too late as a start....

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13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Too late as a start....

6.50 would be heaps better but does that give people time to get home from work and then to the footy?

Is that too early for prime time tv?

7.50 is good because it gives you time to grab a well priced, good meal rather than wasting money at the ground on crud

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26 minutes ago, sue said:

No old55 I hadn't missed it.  I was just assuming this 4 umpire madness would disappear by next season.  And yes, I am aware that there will be umpires injured etc. - hence my stating "in very rough numbers of course"

Roughly half the number really required ...

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4 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

6.50 would be heaps better but does that give people time to get home from work and then to the footy?

Is that too early for prime time tv?

7.50 is good because it gives you time to grab a well priced, good meal rather than wasting money at the ground on crud

there is no 'going home from work then to the footy' on a friday these days for the majority of people

based upon what i see and my experience, the work: life balance adjusted by covid, particularly in victoria, sees most office workers wfh on a friday

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2 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

there is no 'going home from work then to the footy' on a friday these days for the majority of people

based upon what i see and my experience, the work: life balance adjusted by covid, particularly in victoria, sees most office workers wfh on a friday

Definitely the case and even as someone who does still go from work to footy or work to home to footy on Fri I'd prefer an earlier start. 7:20 makes sense.

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19 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

They weren't but okay. 

Yeah weird flex.

Collingwood are set on all lines of the ground and play a brand that fans know what to expect. Their ball movement is so much more superior to ours.

We had forward issues right from the very start and it never got rectified.

In saying that, I think well beat the pies.

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5 hours ago, old55 said:

You'd need to pay them a lot though, at least the same as the highest paid players, because they will be sacrificing their best years of career development umpiring - and what then?  Those accountants and physiotherapists can go on doing that work beyond their involvement in football because they've been building their career.  Players have club sponsored job opportunities beyond football.

I'll try again.

If you paid an umpire say 120k a year, with bonuses, there would be heaps of young talented people who would see that as legitimate and attractive career pathway and career - particularly given you could umpire into your 40s.

I would have as a young fella who would have loved nothing more than to be involved full time in footy but had no chance of doing so by playing.

My son would too.

I have worked in the community service sector all my adult life and there ain't many jobs paying 120k.

So, I disagree you would have to pay them as much as players are paid. 

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2 minutes ago, binman said:

I'll try again.

If you paid an umpire say 120k a year, with bonuses, there would be heaps of young talented people who would see that as legitimate and attractive career pathway and career - particularly given you could umpire into your 40s.

I would have as a young fella who would have loved nothing more than to be involved full time in footy but had no chance of doing so by playing.

My son would too.

I have worked in the community service sector all my adult life and there ain't many jobs paying 120k.

So, I disagree you would have to pay them as much as players are paid. 

I believe the get paid more than that now part time.

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I was speaking to a colleague who is a WAFL umpire about the professional vs part time debate for umpiring.  He said most people were against it because they want to have other careers alongside umpiring.  He additionally wasn't keen on it since focusing on umpiring all week would probably lead to overthinking, he prefers to have the change of focus.

Apparently they now have two umpiring apps to lead to more consistent umpiring outcomes and better umpiring training / development.  One app provides individualised feedback about performance on the weekend, and the other app has footage from the games with snippets based on the umpiring decisions being made.  Don't know how long this has been in play, but maybe it will help things in the long run?

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I enjoyed the game against Carlton. I always enjoy beating Carlton and have memories of having to sit through a lot a games where we were just not good enough. o, I will enjoy taking the 4 points every single time it happens.

The only problem with the game was our accuracy. In all other areas of the game, I am with Goodwin, we dominated. 

Defence looked much better with an additional tall. It just takes the pressure off May and Lever and allows them to play more expansive games. I have no problems with the game that Tomlinson played. I think he will be better for the run. He was up against one of the better forwards in the game and his game helped the defensive structure so much. If he can hold that position well it will allow Petty to come back into the team as a forward. it would also give us more flexibility with Tomlinson able to back up the ruck and Petty to swing back if required.

Mids without Oliver did very well against a solid Carlton crew. I think both Petracca and Viney have stepped up their games and I hope that they do not relax when Oliver is back next week. 

The forwards did not have a great day....... again. JVR had a good day out for 4 solid quarters but generally we lacked serviceable delivery into the forward 50 that was exacerbated by bad kicking once the ball was in the hands of the forwards. 

I don't think we should play both Chandler and Spargo in the same forward line. It is one or the other to my mind. since Spargo got back Chandler does not seem to be as effective as he was.

Team for the Pies?

Backs: Hibberd, May, McVee

HB: Lever, Tomlinson, Salem

C: Langdon, Oliver, Hunter

HF: Sparrow, Smith, Pickett

For: Fristch, JVR, Spargo

Fol: Gawn, Petracca, Viney

IC: Grundy, ANB, Brayshaw, Rivers

Emer: Jordon, Chandler, Schache, Laurie

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Just watched the first half on the box after attending the game.  Miss so much when you're down one end

That 2nd quarter was a doozy.

Some great defensive play off HB but most of it was around the boundary and rebounding from Carlton shallow entries.

The four opportunities missed in this quarter....

Rivers decision making on the member's wing.  Had Hunter free for the instinctive give or Fritsch in space on his own about 25 meters ahead around the arc straight towards goal.  May not have seen Fritta but went for the lollipop HB to Gus instead selling him into trouble.... crunch.... turnover.

Gus in the same posi on the wing.  Had big Max or a free Fritsch in around about the same spot as above around the arc.

Viney in a hole b/w those two was also a slim chance.

Kicked it straight to a Blues defender over the back instead, missing all three.

Chandler mopped up a deep entry into Carlton's 50 with 5:10 to go from Judd via Lever.  Was in the clear by roughly 10 meters with no direct oppo at all.

Looks up straight ahead to the wing without bothering to even glance inside.

Had he glanced he would've spotted Rivers running alongside about to go through the square 25 meters clear of anyone. 

Handball or short kick to Rivers on the 45.... that ball's making it into 50 in a flash for a great look for a leading forward or two or maybe a crumb from a small off the spill.

Instead he kicked to the worst option down the line, a 2 v 1 looking for Fritsch, which we lost and the Blues mopped up via Cerra for their 2nd consecutive entry into 50.

That entry was eventually cleaned up by Lingers who found Spargo near the boundary at HBF southern side.

Now the only option that opened up for him here was the same 40 meter kick to the same spot Chandler kicked to above but this time Fritsch out the back who was on his own in the clear for at least 6 seconds.

Not sure what Spargs was looking at but he was called to play on. 

He was then left with no choice but to HB laterally under pressure to a stationary Tomo who had given up on the receive thinking (correctly) that Spargo would do the basic last resort thing and kick down the line.

Maybe he spotted Fritta but felt he couldn't kick the 40 meters?

Spargo then thought it would be better to kick a worm burning stab pass in board to Lingers sandwhiched in between 3 Blues players zoning off. 

The pass was shizen but Lingers managed to finger tip the ball.  However it bounced out and was then mopped up by Sylvani.

Lucky for Spargo Lingers is a clever fella.  He recovered quickly, tackled Sylvani and received a free for HTB.  Spargo's faux pas and bacon saved.

Spargo did make up for that a few minutes later with some decent vision and execution in traffic to Joey who went back and kicked his first from 45 meters.

So i guess the point here is, the decision making and vision from some during this quarter was pretty ordinary at times.

If they scanned further and a bit more diligently then quickly executed, the game would probably have been over or close to it by half time.

We were saved on these turnovers time and time again by our top line dour defenders.

Fritsch was open and in the clear on at least three occasions and either not seen or ignored.

The big positive for vision & execution this quarter was Tracc.  I've been hoping to see him turn this part of his game around all season and he finally delivered in this first half.

He was brilliant most of the time finding short options in dangerous places on a number of occasions with presence & poise.  Was a joy to watch.   His work rate and effort is always first class but this particular first half was something special imv.

Hopefully the above issues were raised and many learnings were had during the reviews.

Now for the second half if i can find the time.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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11 hours ago, layzie said:

Why would you say Umpires shouldn't be full time then suggest they have a full time coach in the next sentence?

Don't make no sense.

It makes no sense that it makes no sense. Fifty part time umpires - one  part time coach?

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2 hours ago, old55 said:

It makes no sense that it makes no sense. Fifty part time umpires - one  part time coach?

They needed a backup safety valve to that backup safety valve!

So you reckon a full time umpires coach should devote their time to 50 different part timers at different parts of the week? Where do you build the rapport and mentorship? It's hard enough getting one on one contact hours between full time coach and full time players!

Would be like seeing a Uni lecturer for an hour a week. 

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17 minutes ago, layzie said:

They needed a backup safety valve to that backup safety valve!

So you reckon a full time umpires coach should devote their time to 50 different part timers at different parts of the week? Where do you build the rapport and mentorship? It's hard enough getting one on one contact hours between full time coach and full time players!

So do you reckon a part-time coach would be better at doing this? 

50 part-time umpires warrant multiple full-time coaches to get that rapport and mentorship.

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5 minutes ago, old55 said:

So do you reckon a part-time coach would be better at doing this? 

50 part-time umpires warrant multiple full-time coaches to get that rapport and mentorship.

So a) I never said that and b) that's not what was suggested before. 

But multiple FT coaches for mentoring would make more sense. Would also cost a bit and the AFL haven't shown much intention of investing that kind of money into this area. 

 

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14 hours ago, layzie said:

Why would you say Umpires shouldn't be full time then suggest they have a full time coach in the next sentence?

Don't make no sense.

 

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

So a) I never said that and b) that's not what was suggested before. 

But multiple FT coaches for mentoring would make more sense. Would also cost a bit and the AFL haven't shown much intention of investing that kind of money into this area. 

 

What were you trying to say in your original post then?

It seems entirely reasonable that multiple FT coaches would be good, as you now seem to agree ...

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4 minutes ago, old55 said:

 

What were you trying to say in your original post then?

It seems entirely reasonable that multiple FT coaches would be good, as you now seem to agree ...

The key phrase is a full time coach

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Despite the standard of the match I had a fantastic time.

I went with my 2 beautiful daughters ... their first match this year, elder being a new mother, and the younger down from Sydney for a few days. Dinner at the ground and beaut seats. Sitting near my incredibly annoying Blues supporter mate, and listening to him whining about umpiring. And sitting behind another Blues supporter who was making absolutely hilarious comments during the match. (Seriously!) Sadly he disappeared after half time.

And after the match, meeting up with another Demons' mate in the Blazer Bar for a celebratory drink. We don't sit together at the match, but if the Demons win, we always meet up there post match. (Don't bother if we lose.)

Excuse my ramblings, but it really was a great night ... particularly the being with my daughters' part.

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27 minutes ago, old55 said:

Seriously give up, you're reminding me of Monty Python's Black Knight now.

I don't know what you're trying to prove old55.

I asked a question admittedly in a slightly smartalec way, we then proceeded to have a discussion about it which isn't uncommon on these boards and now it seems you're taking a prosecution line and trying to find ways to 'catch' me out with some hostility attached. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Winners at last said:

Despite the standard of the match I had a fantastic time.

I went with my 2 beautiful daughters ... their first match this year, elder being a new mother, and the younger down from Sydney for a few days. Dinner at the ground and beaut seats. Sitting near my incredibly annoying Blues supporter mate, and listening to him whining about umpiring. And sitting behind another Blues supporter who was making absolutely hilarious comments during the match. (Seriously!) Sadly he disappeared after half time.

And after the match, meeting up with another Demons' mate in the Blazer Bar for a celebratory drink. We don't sit together at the match, but if the Demons win, we always meet up there post match. (Don't bother if we lose.)

Excuse my ramblings, but it really was a great night ... particularly the being with my daughters' part.

Great to hear mate, sounds like some much overdue catchups there. 

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