Let's try and pin point the actual issue.

[BW511 2,730]

There was a spot up kick from Bowza in the first quarter where he hit Fritta on the lead.

We probably see less than 10 of those kicks in a whole season with our current group.

Elite ball use is definitely up there with our biggest problems. I am adamant our defensive game is built the way it is because of our lack of skill

[dl4e 5,851]

Keep this as simple as possible. We lack fight. There no desperation in the team. Yesterday some of them looked like they were waiting for the summer break. I know they are not thinking that but that is how it appeared. A lot of this emanates from the top. 

[Gorgoroth 13,220]

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Who is Alice or is it Slice? 

Ha ha should have been slide

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

The issue is this - Darren Burgess is now employed by the Crows.

 

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

1 hour ago, dl4e said:

Keep this as simple as possible. We lack fight. There no desperation in the team. Yesterday some of them looked like they were waiting for the summer break. I know they are not thinking that but that is how it appeared. A lot of this emanates from the top. 

Highly disagree. We won the contested ball, won the tackles, won tackles inside 50, won centre clearances and lost stoppage clearances by 3 which means we probably won the clearances between the arcs and had more inside our forward 50 where we drop the ruck out and play 1 short.

Distance, speed in defence numbers all look fine.

Skill execution and a touch of structure (or more so structural break downs) were the problems yesterday not effort. It’s unfair to question effort. 

[titan_uranus 25,255]

14 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Highly disagree. We won the contested ball, won the tackles, won tackles inside 50, won centre clearances and lost stoppage clearances by 3 which means we probably won the clearances between the arcs and had more inside our forward 50 where we drop the ruck out and play 1 short.

Distance, speed in defence numbers all look fine.

Skill execution and a touch of structure (or more so structural break downs) were the problems yesterday not effort. It’s unfair to question effort. 

But it’s easy. 

I think structure and team balance have been our biggest problems for the last 6 weeks. 

[Demon Disciple 12,536]

Our lack of numbers through the middle yesterday was really concerning. There was very little run provided. Is it a fitness issue?

Also some of our turnovers in the back half were inexcusable. Bowey and Hibberd’s pathetic turnovers in particular resulted in goals. That inexcusable stuff really does halt momentum.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,104]

The wall we were able to set up in 2021 across half forward, enabling repeat i50s was the stuff of legends.

We hardly ever see that any more. Oppositions have just walked it out. We need to get that structure back, and fast.

[Demon Disciple 12,536]

2 hours ago, dl4e said:

Keep this as simple as possible. We lack fight. There no desperation in the team. Yesterday some of them looked like they were waiting for the summer break. I know they are not thinking that but that is how it appeared. A lot of this emanates from the top. 

We are not a proactive team. We wait for something to happen before reacting. We play not to lose instead of trying to win. We are too concerned with try to limit the opposition scoring that we tend to forget how we should go about it ourselves.

Goodwin has continued to trot out that he wants the team to play a style of game that supporters recognise and believe in. Well he’s got the first part of that correct. Since mid 2022, he has reverted back to misoneism. 

[Demon Disciple 12,536]

8 minutes ago, FireInTheBennelly said:

The wall we were able to set up in 2021 across half forward, enabling repeat i50s was the stuff of legends.

We hardly ever see that any more. Oppositions have just walked it out. We need to get that structure back, and fast.

That won’t happen whilst we continue to go with a zone structure. Back in 2021 we had complete buy in, with one chink in the system it breaks down and we have many chinks atm.

Id love to see us go 1 v 1. It quickly highlights players not putting in the required effort and makes them more accountable.

[Supreme_Demon 4,141]

Was at the game yesterday.

Lots of issues need to be rectified.

Firstly, we were really missing Clayton Oliver yesterday in the middle. We have definitely become increasingly dependent upon him, which is not a good balance for our midfield.

Secondly, our disposal efficiency was terrible. Fumbles, miskicks, turnovers, dropped marks, plus missed tackles! Missing crucial goals didn't help either!

Thirdly, our connection into the forward line was horrible as well.

Everything just seemed a real struggle for us against Fremantle. They certainly have the wood over us and we were out coached too. It was a bitter pill to swallow.

Anyway, a lot of work to do at training for the Demons this week!

Edited May 28, 2023 by Supreme_Demon

[DeeSpencer 26,675]

By the way there was a genuine intent for players to link handballs and get back towards the corridor yesterday rather than bail to the boundary from contests in the middle of the ground.

So much so that we saw a comical passage of about 8 handballs whilst Gawn and someone else sat on the boundary side by themselves in the 4th quarter.

There’s often evidence of the team trying to do different things if you actually look for it. The issue is it breaks down under pressure and/or fatigue. 

[DemonWA 3,941]

Lets try and pinpoint

Nek minut: Scatter gun e-book

[Flower Magic 776]

There are currently two elite players in the competition whose form and confidence is shot to pieces, and it is causing a major problem at their respective clubs - Harry McKay and Jake Lever.

[Pipefitter 2,234]

We need 2 Petty’s. Problem is we don’t even have 1 At the moment.

[Chook 15,069]

20 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Our senior players have been mostly very disappointing this season. Trac and Clarry aside, we’ve not had consistently good output from anyone else. 

I have no issues with McVee or JVR running out of puff. But players like Langdon, Lever, May, ANB, Gawn, Gus, Fritsch and Viney  (not to mention the two talls in Tmac and BB) have all been wavering between good and horrible each week.
When we are getting minimal output from these key players who made us a great team in 2021, it’s no wonder we are struggling.

I don’t know if they are just lacking motivation/hunger, if they’re injured, or if they’re simply in decline, but it puts too much pressure on the lesser lights to perform. Unfortunately, like most sides, if your best players aren’t performing, your bottom 8 are unlikely to win you many games. 
Combine that with a game plan that is predicable, and we have simply become easier to play against. 

This.

I think ultimately our issues aren't to do with gameplan but personnel, in the sense that the boys on the park aren't getting it done like they did in 2021. There are coaching factors that play into that, but ultimately it's the 22 on the park that aren't good enough. Where are the towering Gawn marks? Where is the Langdon 1-2 defensive sweeper to forward thrust plays? Where is Salem's cutting ball use? Where is McDonald's up and back link play? Where is Brown? Where is Fritsch's incredible goalsense? Where where where, and etcetera?

 

[Jaded No More 68,976]

Just now, Chook said:

This.

I think ultimately our issues aren't to do with gameplan but personnel, in the sense that the boys on the park aren't getting it done like they did in 2021. There are coaching factors that play into that, but ultimately it's the 22 on the park that aren't good enough. Where are the towering Gawn marks? Where is the Langdon 1-2 defensive sweeper to forward thrust plays? Where is Salem's cutting ball use? Where is McDonald's up and back link play? Where is Brown? Where is Fritsch's incredible goalsense? Where where where, and etcetera?

 

I guess that other than Langdon, all the players you brought up have had injury concerns. So it definitely hasn’t helped our cause to have had nearly all our key players battling an injury of some type. Add to that Petty and now Clarry, and Kosi missing through suspension which I believe really mentally impacted him, and you’d be hard pressed to find a key senior player who has had an injury free run this season. 
 

Even Grundy is playing catch up from his knee injury. 

[Demon Disciple 12,536]

29 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Even Grundy is playing catch up from his knee injury. 

Despite that one tap straight down a dockers players throat in the ruck, I thought Grundy was one of our better players (way better than Max, who got comprehensively beaten).

At least when Brodie plays on the fly, it’s unpredictable for the other team. I’d take that over the boring same old stuff that the opposition seemingly now gave a handbook on how to unravel it.

[JV7 2,375]

The main issue is the dog hungry pressure…. It’s not there at the moment.

Pressure on the opposition ball carrier gives the defensive half time to set up behind the ball, intercept & get our turnover game going it is also the pressure in the front half which allows us to create forward half turnovers which are gold in modern footy or at worst lock the ball in, create a stoppage allowing us to set up how we want behind the ball. To Fremantle credit they denied us the football yesterday, chip mark down the ground to not allow us to get the style of game we wanted to play to our strengths.

I am also of the belief that we have gone into this season knowing our front half game needed work so we’ve traded some defensive aspects of our game to become more attacking going forward however it’s left us vulnerable in the back half hence why May & Lever looks all at sea.

 

 

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Was thinking about this thread today and it occurred to me that we are having a very similar year to 2018 where we  were a high scoring team, inconsistent and couldn’t really beat the the top 4 teams.

Is it possible that in our efforts to try to emulate a faster moving , offensive team like Lions and Pies, we have over compensated and basically stopped defending as a team ? Quick to point fingers at others? 

When we come across good defensive sides, our offensive plan is lost at sea and we just default to boundary, slow, bomb kicking 

We are also addicted to front of stoppage clearances and yet rarely punish the opponent when 1/10 clearance falls our way and our stoppage setups are too offensive and often leave us flat footed.

Predictably the media scrutiny is well upon us and so it should be. There are  no easy solutions, just hard work, hard training and a big rebound on Friday night to get the confidence up before the big test on KB. Our next chance to beat a top team. 

The boys should really set themselves a target before the bye - nothing to lose type mentality and go all in. If the shoe was on the other foot, I certainly wouldn’t want to be playing us coming off 2 straight losses and our pride and courage questioned. The Pies will have two soft kills in consecutive weeks and will lose a bit of edge so we have the advantage of being a bit more battle hardened then them.
 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Gawndy the Great

[Wodjathefirst 2,671]

13 hours ago, layzie said:

He really stepped up to the plate yesterday. Credit where it is due.

Yep, I had been geared up to boo my head off at him ……. I just couldn’t.  Shame.

[Wodjathefirst 2,671]

The actual issue for me is the team’s ‘attitude’, ‘mindset’ or ‘confidence. They seemed to have lost their self belief.
It needs to change. Feel like a winner, play like a winner. It needs to infect all the players.  This contamination needs to occur next Friday. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Wodjathefirst

[spirit of norm smith 16,679]

7 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Was at the game yesterday.

Lots of issues need to be rectified.

Firstly, we were really missing Clayton Oliver yesterday in the middle. We have definitely become increasingly dependent upon him, which is not a good balance for our midfield.

Secondly, our disposal efficiency was terrible. Fumbles, miskicks, turnovers, dropped marks, plus missed tackles! Missing crucial goals didn't help either!

Thirdly, our connection into the forward line was horrible as well.

Everything just seemed a real struggle for us against Fremantle. They certainly have the wood over us and we were out coached too. It was a bitter pill to swallow.

Anyway, a lot of work to do at training for the Demons this week!

Here is the best summary so far. Thanks @Supreme_Demon

our disposal efficiency was terrible. Fumbles, miskicks, turnovers, dropped marks, plus missed tackles! Missing crucial goals didn't help either!

[Mel Bourne 4,541]

Of late, specifically the last two matches, I think Fritsch’s slump has been making the crucial difference. 

Had he have made his usual contributions to the scoreboard we would have won both matches  

It’s pretty straightforward. He’s been our leading goal kicker every year since 2020, and he’s still our best in 23.

We rely so heavily on him to make the difference, and he is not delivering at the moment. It has to be an injury. But whatever the injury is, it’s affecting his confidence to the core, to the point his set-shots are uncharacteristically off  

Desperate for the guy to re-find his form. 

Some say “no Oliver, no team”, but really it’s “no Bailey, no win”. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Mel Bourne

[Kev 10,925]

We don't play a tempo style game.

When we get the ball, it seems we go, go, go. Makes it physically demanding for the players, given how hard we two-way run by being a good transition team.

Need to play smart when we have the ball, search for the best, or at least, an unpredictable corridor. Pass the ball round a bit, if an angle off the line isn't clear, then stretch the opponents. When they find space, then go fast. Otherwise, we just go into the walls, as our runners are closed down and pressured by being outnumbered. That forces us to panic with the into 50 arc delivery, and allows the opposition defenders to easily pick the leads.

They need to be better at creating space, getting overlaps, finding gears (slow, medium and fast), and forming a swarm.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by kev martin