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Do we need to reevaluate our stoppage set up? I understand that we go -1 at the stoppage to set up an extra number behind the ball to intercept and spoil, but teams are getting better and better at winning the stoppage clearance, gaining territory and bringing the ball to ground in our defensive 50.

This problem is compounded by the fact that our midfield is not winning enough contests. The set up works when our midfield wins contests but our “star studded midfield” seem to be getting beaten every week by young stars like Anderson and Butters who are hitting the ball at speed and leaving our players out paced and outnumbered.

Long story short - is there any value in equalling or outnumbering at the stoppage to ensure we are winning more contests, winning more clearances and gaining more territory with out star studded midfield? For a team that is built on contest and territory, we aren’t winning either against the better sides

Love the pod fellas and hope you can bring some frustrated Dees fans a bit of hope that we’ll get this aspect of our game right sooner rather than later!

Edited May 19, 20232 yr by demoncat

The physicality of the game and the conditions in which it was played made the loss of Tom Sparrow through suspension all the more significant. 

While the loss of one player likely makes no difference to a result, to what extent would Sparrow have helped us in the clearance contest, around stoppage and giving our mids a rest through rotation during the game. 

Guys. Excited as always and looking forward to the podcast.  
I posted this in the Hunter reported thread and would like your opinions.  It is a blight that players are allowed, indeed encouraged in a way, to put their heads and necks in jeopardy. Headlong into a pack or into another player should be penalised against the kamikaze player.  
“Remember Christian has been humiliated by Melbourne, who he already hates, so no way will Hunter not be suspended for an action entirely initiated by Rozee.  
I have mentioned before numerous times, players charging headlong into packs or other players need to be penalised themselves - if not there will be some poor bugger left paralysed and an “innocent bystander” forever condemned just for being there.”

Second question related to our midfield.  Few would question that we have at least a couple of elite midfielders, Tracc and Clarry wand others nearby Jack V and up and coming Sparrow. 
But does a group of elite midfielders make an elite midfield?  What indeed is an elite midfield?  Surely that would require generating meaningful clearances and or forward entries?  Is our midfield, as a group rather tha as individuals, elite?

Many thanks. 
 

PS. are we top 4 material at this stage?  I maybe pessimistically (MFCSS) see us as 5-7 

Last week I asked about our tackling pressure through the middle of the ground and I thought this week we were exposed in this area. The overall tackle stats were 75-72 the way of Port but I think the nature of the wet game and more overall tackles inflated our stats a bit.

We were often faced with the issue of a running opposition midfielder getting through the middle far too easily without enough pressure or defensive ability to stop them in their tracks. 

What can we do? Do we need to get the mouthguards out at training this week? Do we need to setup differently when defending in transition? Appreciate the thoughts. 

On 5/19/2023 at 11:21 PM, demoncat said:

Do we need to reevaluate our stoppage set up? I understand that we go -1 at the stoppage to set up an extra number behind the ball to intercept and spoil, but teams are getting better and better at winning the stoppage clearance, gaining territory and bringing the ball to ground in our defensive 50.

This problem is compounded by the fact that our midfield is not winning enough contests. The set up works when our midfield wins contests but our “star studded midfield” seem to be getting beaten every week by young stars like Anderson and Butters who are hitting the ball at speed and leaving our players out paced and outnumbered.

Long story short - is there any value in equalling or outnumbering at the stoppage to ensure we are winning more contests, winning more clearances and gaining more territory with out star studded midfield? For a team that is built on contest and territory, we aren’t winning either against the better sides

Love the pod fellas and hope you can bring some frustrated Dees fans a bit of hope that we’ll get this aspect of our game right sooner rather than later!

Following on from this - I'd love some discussion on @Watson11's brilliant post from the 'Why are we continuously being beaten in clearances?' thread, which touches on the same point as above with some clear examples of where our stoppage game let us down on Friday night:

14 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Is it just me or do others think Friday was an inept coaching performance.  I get all the commentary in this thread about having one less at a stoppage and relying on intercept, but wouldn’t you think that in Fridays conditions it was a night for territory.

But no, Goody stuck with -1 at stoppage and it was so frustrating.  We lost non centre clearances 30-20. It’s why i50s were 61-48 and that was the game (imagine the commentary on here if Ports 32 shots on goal ended up as 18 goals).

The problem is apparent in 2 stoppages in the last 4 minutes. In the first on our 50m arc, Port have a spare which I can live with But the ball goes down the other end, and Port have a stoppage on their 50m arc, shown. We had even numbers and put someone goal side which makes sense.  But we leave Port with a spare on the other side. Max can’t safely tap goal side so all night he tapped forward or more often straight to Ports spare.  It’s just insanity. They had several shots on goal or goal assists from these types of stoppages.  It make no sense why Goody would not push an extra to the stoppage like Port do, as Gawns tap is never going back toward goal so we are effectively outnumbered every time. 

This happened all night and imo cost us the game. We need to beat Collingwood this year who will be +2 at stoppages.

 

 

 

Hey guys, A great Friday night for neutrals - a tough, finals style hitout in May.

Port always smack Max around, so not unusual.  They brought the pressure and a clear plan to beat us.

We played one great quarter, one average and 2 poor quarters of football, and still only lost by 4 points.

I dont want to beat up on the team.  A bit worried that we dont do much planning or in game changes as we ‘trust the process’.  Butters getting off the chain, targeting our marking, making Lever accountable, not changing up the midfield until half time. Etc

What do you guys think of the ‘trust over change’ coaching model, and are we still on the path to going deep in the finals?

Edited May 22, 20232 yr by buck_nekkid

Can’t stomach the concept of watching a replay of Friday night’s game, but it seemed to me that for our kick ins from points, Port went hard 1 on 1 defensively, so there were no easy kick ins short or long. We seemed to just accept this and there were virtually no leads given to the person kicking out, which resulted in the predictable long bombs to the wing, where we got slaughtered and the ball was locked in their forward 50. 

Conversely, we used more of a mixture of 1 on 1 and zone defence when they did their kick ins, and they moved the ball fairly easily from their defence to forward 50, helping them dominate time in their forward half.

After watching Port’s successful strategy for our kick ins, the idea of going a hard man on man defence for the oppositions point kick ins looks like a winner to me. We can still adopt a zone defence when the ball is in general play.

What do you guy think?

5 minutes ago, The Chief said:

Can’t stomach the concept of watching a replay of Friday night’s game, but it seemed to me that for our kick ins from points, Port went hard 1 on 1 defensively, so there were no easy kick ins short or long. We seemed to just accept this and there were virtually no leads given to the person kicking out, which resulted in the predictable long bombs to the wing, where we got slaughtered and the ball was locked in their forward 50. 

Conversely, we used more of a mixture of 1 on 1 and zone defence when they did their kick ins, and they moved the ball fairly easily from their defence to forward 50, helping them dominate time in their forward half.

After watching Port’s successful strategy for our kick ins, the idea of going a hard man on man defence for the oppositions point kick ins looks like a winner to me. We can still adopt a zone defence when the ball is in general play.

What do you guy think?

I'm no coach and happy to admit it but Gawn and Grundy wants wrong with one on each side of the ground for kick-ins.

Thanks for your efforts 

I ask that you consider how strong our ruck division is

heretical I know!

Sean Darcy is the benchmark apparently 

afl stats comparison shows he is way ahead of Max and Brodie on hit outs, stoppage clearances and centre clearances

true he is one player and we have 2 rucks but Freo also have a relief or chop out ruck option which is delivering something when not rucking

then there is the work our rucks do when not in ruck contests 

my challenge is to the prevailing orthodoxy that our two ruck system provides us with competitive advantage 

what do you think?

Selection question.

Let’s assume Oliver,Bowey & Hunter don’t play Walyalup.

Who would you bring in?

I’d be bringing in Sparrow, Jordan & Harmes. Send Brayshaw to the wing were he almost won a Norm Smith. Make Woewoden the sun get some young blood in there!

Also I didn’t think Tmac did much but he showed he still has it in him just needs to get involved earlier! (Horrible night for a key forward coming back in though).

 

Interested to here @binman's take on our small fwds.  As I know he loves all of our small fwds.  I think we are playing 1 to many, and they are thinking each other will put pressure on and then no one does.

All three (Spargo, Kossie and ANB) clock up the KMs and each have something to give. ANB - endurance, Kossie - goal kicking and speed, Spargo - ball use.

ANB and Kossie had shocking games on the weekend in a game where the ball spent more time on the deck. 

No Oliver for a while I think one of those small fwds need to be a midfielder, weather that is a Harmes, Laurie, JJ or someone else maybe.

 

How do you see the Jackson vs Gawn match up and do you expect any of the team to target Jackson?

@binman You often talk about being happy to lose clearances, with the aim to get the opposition on turnover.  How is that strategy impacted by wet and slippery conditions and what tweaks are needed.  It seems intercept marking in defence on wet slippery days is near on impossible, so does this make the tactic less useful?

I had the level 5 Riverbank seats on Friday(equivalent to the ponsford stand seats).  I was very concerned that we struggled to exit our defensive 50, and our point kick outs are so predictable.  Port had a number of successful set plays that allowed them to exit much easier.  Do we need to alter kick outs when it’s wet, and or have a few more strategies to upset the opposition defensive zone? 

 

Why wasn't Viney sent to Butters? Bizarre! Can you enlighten me please?

I listened to the Brodie Grundy interview earlier today.  He speaks (reasonably well) and gives me confidence that he has bought into Melbourne.

I know he came from Collingwood but he has been here long enough to bring his grammar up to Melbourne standards, please.  It is not ‘me and Maxy, it is ‘Maxy and I’ or ‘Maxy and me’, if we are concerned about no ‘I’ in team😉.

Talking of Collingwood, Friday week ago I was at Brussels Central on my way to Uni classes and I heard a couple asking for help and pricing - thinking they were English I told the station staff to charge them more.  They were from Perth and I thanked them for hosting our drought breaking Grand Final.  The next in line were from Melbourne.  Are you Dees fans, ‘no Collingwood’.  It took all my control to not brush them off with the bird.   Then, from the other side of the large foyer, turned back and shouted twice ‘King’s Birthday’.  No reaction.  I have since wondered whether I have done a disservice to our Beloved Demons.  Please help to counter my momentary arrogance, so un-Melbourne like…🥴.

I've heard a lot of people comment that Ed Langdon isn't going well across this season to date.

Overall his attacking stats are definitely down compared to 2021 and 2022 (as of a couple of weeks ago):

Disposals 19.3 vs 21.4/21.8

Meters Gained 304 vs 376/417

Marks 3.6 vs 4.1/5.4

Inside 50's 2.4 vs 2.8/2.8

The only stat bucking this trend is goal assists, which have doubled from previous years (0.8 vs 0.4/0.3)

 

BUT his defensive stats are up:

Tackles 2.6 vs 1.3/1.9

1 %'ers 1.4 vs 0.9/0.8

except for turnovers (3.6 vs 3.8/4.2)

 

I haven't been able to make it to games this year, so interested in your thoughts if:

a) Ed is down on form

b) He's carrying a niggle or simply less fit than previous years

c) He's simply changed role to a more defensive one, and is no longer a key lynchpin in our preferrred ball movement in 2023 (more through the corridor compared to past seasons)

Another wing-related question:

One person perhaps not so thrilled about Lachie Hunter's recruitment would be Taj Woewodin. At the end of 2022 he looked almost certain to break into the seniors this year on the wing opposite Langdon.

But he might get his chance this week if Hunter's suspension is upheld at the tribunal. Apparently he was an emergency in Adelaide last Friday so must be close to selection. 

Given Langdon and Hunter are unlikely to be dropped anytime soon, do you think Taj is now relegated to backup wingman (as he may do this week), or can he re-invent himself in another role and break into the seniors that way?

I’d be tempted to risk it all for a bit more experimentation over the next few weeks. We have a lot of players out of form and a side that is miles off being cohesive. Oliver out gives us that chance.

Can we give Pickett an extended run in the middle to get him into the game more consistently. He’s very much a burst player but he’s not doing the basics and needs a reset. Maybe Laurie comes in to cover his HFF/FP role. I know it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul, as they say, but he’s not kicking goals or tackling at the moment.

Riv is in great form at the moment, reward him with some time on the ball. Confidence is a wonderful thing. He’s the only player on our list going better than last year.

Is there an opportunity to roll Salem through the middle and see if his skills can help our forward entries - he looks fitter than he has been in years.

Do we throw Jordon in for 4 weeks straight and just let him play rather than this ridiculous sub role he gets stuck with. Coming into a game in the 3rd or 4th quarter is never going to improve your game.

Could potentially make me look stupid but is there an option to use Grundy as a pinch hitting XL mid in certain parts of the ground (centre square forward) Just bulldoze his way through a stoppage and roll forward. He’s pretty solid with his follow up at ground level
 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 20232 yr by BW511

Kossie was quiet on Friday night.

Butters on fire. Why not throw Kossie onto Butters and say go beat him one on one!

Particularly when Oliver hamstring issue late in the 3rd.

Gutted with the loss, outplayed for 3 quarters, but find respite in the fact that we lost by 4 points. 

Adding to this, they had a bloke play the highest rated game for the year, got some calls thier way, and still only 4 points.

I want to convince myself this is unsustainable and we will be ok, and that our method will get us though, but I'm getting more shades of a misfiring 2022 Dees than a team that deserves to be second in the flag betting.

One of my tigers mates said after our flag, "it gets harder now, teams will hunt the demons, get pride from beating the demons"

I think about this way too much.

Rant over, love the pod guys.

Since our glorious drought breaking flag we have a less than stellar record against top 4/top 8 opposition. Have we been freed from desire? We seem to have lost the hunger and pressure that was a hallmark of our 2021 campaign (namely around stoppages and inside F50).

16 hours ago, Travy14 said:

Interested to here @binman's take on our small fwds.  As I know he loves all of our small fwds.  I think we are playing 1 to many, and they are thinking each other will put pressure on and then no one does.

All three (Spargo, Kossie and ANB) clock up the KMs and each have something to give. ANB - endurance, Kossie - goal kicking and speed, Spargo - ball use.

ANB and Kossie had shocking games on the weekend in a game where the ball spent more time on the deck. 

No Oliver for a while I think one of those small fwds need to be a midfielder, weather that is a Harmes, Laurie, JJ or someone else maybe.

 

You're forgetting Chandler

22 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

🤣

Apologies. I was away from Friday to Monday enjoying the sun. We will be LIVE tonight (Tuesday) at 8:30pm.

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're forgetting Chandler

Correct, although IMO he is the only one that gets to stay in