10 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

It is a rubbish stat, yet you've used it?

A kick that goes 40+ metres to a 50/50 contest is considered an effective disposal. And the bulk of his kicks are those types so the 76% is meaningless to me.

The important ones are the kicks where he is under little to no pressure should be hitting targets and he doesn't do this often enough. And he sometimes does even worse by directly turning the ball over when really his kick should be resulting in another possession for us. 

I admire his inside work, but god damn do we still waste so many entries going forward and I still think we need a better balance of players in that midfield mix.

Yeah shocking kicking a ball 40m to our fwd line is terible.

Not sufficient video 

No free kick paid 

Arms not pinned 

player moving at pace - not a standing sling 

no concussion to impacted player

basically it again is a strange MRO decision 

I saw Rowell do exactly the same on Friday night. I’ll have to try to pinpoint the timeframe 

it’s simply “revenge of the MRO “ 

starring Michael (I love the Pies) Christian 

Sparrow gets chosen over JJ because he's a better player, has a better build for the contested game and can kick a goal from 50. 

10 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

It is a rubbish stat, yet you've used it?

A kick that goes 40+ metres to a 50/50 contest is considered an effective disposal. And the bulk of his kicks are those types so the 76% is meaningless to me.

The important ones are the kicks where he is under little to no pressure should be hitting targets and he doesn't do this often enough. And he sometimes does even worse by directly turning the ball over when really his kick should be resulting in another possession for us. 

I admire his inside work, but god damn do we still waste so many entries going forward and I still think we need a better balance of players in that midfield mix.

It's not an ideal indicator Jimmy for sure.

I would say probably a VERY rough guide between players you're comparing like with like in terms of position / role being played but to be taken with a grain of salt if not.

However even then, who nowadays plays a role/position that is super similar to another player?  Maybe the ruck,  FB, FF and the two wingers?  That is debatable also.  As you mentioned it also doesn't take into account the degree of difficulty and pressure factors so you have to be super careful when comparing two players with this one.

The best metric going about is the 'Kick Rating' from Champion data which does take into account pressure, degree of difficulty using their 'Expected Hit Rate' (EHR) as well as the type of kick being made (short vs long). Unfortunately, we have no access to that.

Here's their explanation as well as the EHR that feeds into that rating...

Kick Rating: The difference between a player’s expected hit rate and actual hit rate. A negative kick rating indicates a player is not executing the kicks as well as the competition average and a positive kick rating shows a player is hitting the target more often than the competition average.

Expected Hit Rate: Used the calculate the difficulty of a kick by looking at how often, on average, any player in the competition managed to hit their target when attempting a type of kick. Kick types are determined by combining the intent, distance and direction of the kick, along with how much pressure the player was under at the time.

The one stat we do have access to though is AFL's kicking efficiency % which i assume is just the % of effective vs non-effective garnered from the stat below...

Effective Kick: The sum of effective short kicks, effective long kicks and effective ground kicks. Effective Long Kick: A kick of more than 40 metres to a 50/50 contest or better for the team. Effective Short Kick: A kick of less than 40 metres that results in the intended target retaining possession.

At this point in time Sparrow in 2023 is travelling at 65.8% (kicking efficiency) vs 62.4% in 2022.  However, this still doesn't break down the short vs long components.  We also don't have the AFL averages by position which you would need in order to see where he is at vs other players playing a similar role in the comp trying to pull off similar kicks under similar pressure.  Again we are stymied by not being able to drill down and see this data to truly know these things.

We are left to judge by the eyes only and hence differences of opinion occur as they are mostly subjective judgements.  Some more accurate than others but no real way of telling either way in many cases due to the above restrictions for us punters.  Obviously the clubs have access to all the juicy bits and will have a much better idea of how the boys are travelling.

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by Demon Dynasty

15 hours ago, Megatron said:

Can I ask a question? How is sparrow meant to stop rotation when Sparrow’s momentum is already heading to the right? I mean, what’s he meant to do? Arms are free and even if he lets go before he tackles him to ground and day still hits his head, does he still get a week? I’m totally confused.

You're only allowed to ask stupid questions on this forum @Megatron. Take your insightful analysis elsewhere.

15 hours ago, DeeSince73 said:

Fair dinkum. It’s time for Christian(s) to go, he’s lost all objectivity. Not to mention the plot. 

How very first century of you @DeeSince73.

15 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I quite like blancmange. It’s also a ripper word.

Your posts are a panacea @The heart beats true.

Below is a season v season comparison of Sparrow's averages on a few metrics.  It should be noted that these are publicly available stats only and many, as mentioned above, are flawed to various degrees of severity.

Take no notice of some of the massive percentage gains, such as marks inside 50, which are just mathematical outcomes due to a very low figure from 2022.  Also contested marks et al.

If anyone needs a legend i can post that separately but hopefully the abbreviations should be mostly self explanatory.

Looking at some of those numbers, it would seem Tom might be being asked to play more of an outside-mid role (less clearances, less contested, more uncontested)?  And possibly being asked to run back a little more often to support (rebounds up somewhat, inside 50s down a tad)?  His average game time is up a fair amount but off a fairly low figure in 2022.

#32 T Sparrow	2022	2023	% Change
CP	6.62	5.00	-24.5
UP	10.00	12.56	25.6
ED*	12.10	13.22	9.3
DE%	74.99	76.12	1.1
CM*	0.14	0.11	-22.2
Mi50*	0.14	0.56	288.9
1%*	1.43	1.67	16.7
CL*	2.62	1.56	-40.6
R50*	0.86	1.78	107.4
i50*	3.10	2.56	-17.4
T*	3.48	3.89	11.9
Si*	3.90	4.22	8.1
MG	238.76	290.44	21.7
TO*	3.43	3.00	-12.5
ITC*	1.86	2.00	7.7
T5*	0.43	0.67	55.6
TOG%	68.33	74.33	6.0
G*	0.29	0.56	94.4
DD's Player Rating	2.66	3.01	13.1

* Indicates metric is used for Player Rating

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by Demon Dynasty

IIRC Kozzy did a dangerous-looking tackle early on but it wasnt a sling

26 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Below is a season v season comparison of Sparrow's averages on a few metrics.  It should be noted that these are publicly available stats only and many, as mentioned above, are flawed to various degrees of severity.

Take no notice of some of the massive percentage gains, such as marks inside 50, which are just mathematical outcomes due to a very low figure from 2022.  Also contested marks et al.

If anyone needs a legend i can post that separately but hopefully the abbreviations should be mostly self explanatory.

Looking at some of those numbers, it would seem Tom might be being asked to play more of an outside-mid role (less clearances, less contested, more uncontested)?  And possibly being asked to run back a little more often to support (rebounds up somewhat, inside 50s down a tad)?  His average game time is up a fair amount but off a fairly low figure in 2022.

#32 T Sparrow	2022	2023	% Change
CP	6.62	5.00	-24.5
UP	10.00	12.56	25.6
ED*	12.10	13.22	9.3
DE%	74.99	76.12	1.1
CM*	0.14	0.11	-22.2
Mi50*	0.14	0.56	288.9
1%*	1.43	1.67	16.7
CL*	2.62	1.56	-40.6
R50*	0.86	1.78	107.4
i50*	3.10	2.56	-17.4
T*	3.48	3.89	11.9
Si*	3.90	4.22	8.1
MG	238.76	290.44	21.7
TO*	3.43	3.00	-12.5
ITC*	1.86	2.00	7.7
T5*	0.43	0.67	55.6
TOG%	68.33	74.33	6.0
G*	0.29	0.56	94.4
DD's Player Rating	2.66	3.01	13.1

* Indicates metric is used for Player Rating

Bro. This is about him being suspended. 

3 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Bro. This is about him being suspended. 

Agreed but you might want to say that to a stack of other posts as well Steve that aren't on topic

appeal all the way to the un court of human rights if necessary

dangerous tackles have now become chook lotto

So the AFL rooster, head maggot gets one back.

45 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Your posts are a panacea @The heart beats true.

This is why @The heart beats trueis the only poster I follow. His posts are either funny af and/or exactly my views. Except for that one time I told him I like romantic walks on the beach and candlelit dinners for two (I don’t really, it was for the purpose of the topic) and he totally knocked me back with the reason being candles are dangerous, they can result in fires. Couldn’t even afford me the dignity of a less lame excuse. 😭😭😭

2 hours ago, Macca said:

If the AFL were authentic, they'd make an example of the high profile players, not the lesser lights

 

This!  But they are authentic about $$.

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by sue

16 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I quite like blancmange. It’s also a ripper word.

Great, next we will be discussing "spotted d-ck".

I would imagine there must be video of the full incident, or otherwise Christian would be an id-ot to charge Sparrow, oh wait a minute.

4 hours ago, Pipefitter said:

Surely something similar happened in 1909 that we can reference. 

I am looking at my law reports.

13 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Sparrow has improved but I'd still much rather us insert a mid with complimenting attributes to Trac, Oliver and Viney. 

I think we have an overload of inside bulls who all share the same weakness. 

It's nice to see him improving although I don't see it with his ball use/decision making which is our Achilles heel. 

Pickett has really rejuvenated us when he runs through and gives us a completely different look and we need a couple more young mids who have an element of class, composure and ball use. Not bull at a gate. 

Bont, Merrett, Pendles, Rozee..the list of classy pure on ballers is pretty short. If we had that player I think we’d play them! I’m hoping for more Rivers rotations and him becoming a mid in time. I’d also love to be creative with Salem once he’s fully fit too. I’d even consider Chandler getting a Pickett style one or two rotations a quarter - his left foot could give us balance when Viney isn’t in there. 

The only player on our list who could come in and provide class as a mid is Laurie but he’s just not there yet. Misses tackles, not strong enough in the contest and gets caught flat footed.

The thing that’s overlooked with Sparrow is his phenomenal defensive running compliments our gun mids in a way that’s as important as skill.

Viney’s a great defender at the contest but he’s not an elite runner. Oliver’s now turned in to a pretty special runner but he’s not always switched on with defensive positioning. I hate to say it but Tracc is labouring around the ground defensively these days.

Sparrow’s always flat out to pressure and block the corridor. JJ or Harmes can fill in this week but my guess is it will be straight back to Sparrow the week after.

16 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I quite like blancmange. It’s also a ripper word.

How do you feel about their music?

 

Don't they normally give you two weeks reduced to one if you except. It feels like the AFL want the clubs to fight reports. I take it cost us nothing to take this on. 

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I would imagine there must be video of the full incident, or otherwise Christian would be an id-ot to charge Sparrow, oh wait a minute.

Apparently Day was slow to get up which will be shown on the down the ground cameras, as well as something that will look like his head hitting the ground (which happens when you go to ground in almost every tackle of course). With the way the tribunal has upheld tackle suspensions this year that’s really all they need 

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by DeeSpencer

Just now, YearOfTheDees said:

Don't they normally give you two weeks reduced to one if you except. It feels like the AFL want the clubs to fight reports. I take it cost us nothing to take this on. 

They changed that years ago. I believe it’s now 10k in fees if you lose, out of the soft cap too. 

If there’s any kind of vision of Day’s head hitting the ground then as stupid as the suspension is I don’t think we should bother challenging. 

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Apparently Day was slow to get up which will be shown on the down the ground cameras. With the way the tribunal has upheld tackle suspensions this year that’s really all they need 

Is that because he was so down on his team being flogged, so he didn't want to 'play anymore'?