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POSTGAME: Rd 06 vs Richmond


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14 hours ago, layzie said:

What should we do instead?

Try to enjoy the night and not overthink it. !!

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Just now, DeeZone said:

Try to enjoy the night and not overthink it. !!

I'm taking on board the feedback of people who think the boundaries of entertainment and respect are being flirted. I don't want this ceremony to become a big Instagram fest either.

It would just be nice to have one event that doesn't divide us and we can all look to as something done in good taste. 

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3 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I watched the game yesterday and Collingwood struggled with Essendon run and carry game for 3 Quarters 

I was surprised how efficient the bummers were in terms of their disposal and their ability to block Collingwood running through the midfield - their main weapon

Last quarter pies went full pressure and the bummers wilted terribly and the dam wall burst 

Pressure on the ball carrier wins most games - our problem is we seem to struggle to present that every quarter and every game. Our disposal not only in terms of decision making but also effectiveness is also below what it should be atm - hopefully that can change. Lost count in our game against tigers the number of

1. dumb 2 metre handballs that achieved nothing

2. dumb high bombs out of trouble and into more trouble

My sense watching at times was the players just wanted to get rid of the ball and let someone else have the problem of finding a target 

Maybe it’s a lack of confidence because when we are playing well that isn’t what I see 

Certainly there are a few weaknesses in our game at the moment.

In our defence we haven't had a settled side this season.  Major outs each week.  Now that we have most players back the team will settle and cohesion will come back.  But this could take until the back half of the season, which is really when we want to be settled and playing consistently. 

imv there are only 3 maybe 4 teams that can win it this year:  Pies, Cats, Dees and theoretically Lions.

Lets see how we are placed after the bye.

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Layzie that is never going to happen we are to diverse and have different emotional chargers.!!

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11 hours ago, kev martin said:

The modern narrative is to honour the fallen and as you say, "propaganda spectacle/barely disguised recruitment drive".

I always felt the day was about the tragedy and horror of war, and that we should avoid them at all cost. Ask any returned soldier who engaged in active duty, very few would say "do it". Most say "what was it all about".

Doesn't that war in Afghanistan or Iraq show, no good comes of it, except for causing a failed state, allowing war lords into the vacuum and the associated sanctions harming the common person.

The reflection used to be about how war destroys communities and its citizens. The main deaths in war are those trapped in its environs. The armistice was a time we thanked the service people.

I am amazed that it has become all about honouring the military and barely a mention of the futility and suffering. 

It is also the impetus that caused us to mature (Australia and New Zealand). We decided not to allow foreign (British Empire) nations to decide our Troop deployments. The making of an independent Australia. That is why we used to offer ceremony to that defeat in Canakkale (Gallipoli). 

It is amazing how the narrative gets moved by those with vested interests. 

That...or quite frankly maybe you just dont get it.

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51 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

I had the feeling all game, that if we could get some momentum we would run over the top of the Tigers. My brother follows the tigers and he was resigned to the fact that this very young side would get steamrolled in the second half. I don't think this happened and thought we were only a few accurate shots on goal from being beaten. 

I really thought that our experienced talls would be a major point of difference. I think Ryan and Young were trying to hold down key positions and play ruck so we had a clear advantage. This just didn't seem to translate into midfield dominance. Others have suggested that Grundy turned the tide, but I think his radar was off in terms of his rucking duties, often delivering it straight to the Tigers advantage. This was a major complaint of the few Collingwood supporters that I talk to about footy. 

Understand this is a pretty negative post after a win, but the Tigers lack depth and along with several injuries. We really should have been more dominant, given our experience and the quality of our playing group.

We are a long way off our best imv. Fortunately we are playing lesser quality opposition over the next few weeks, I just hope we don't take them too lightly as there may be a few surprises in store.

I can understand a lot of where you are coming from your post.  From another perspective, I saw it as a big game in front of a huge crowd where Richmond (no matter who was in or out) was going to take it up to us and they did. (Bit like what Essendon did to Collingwood). Richmond’s season was on the line.

In many aspects it wasn’t a pretty game, it was tough and gritty, but we won.  I think that pretty every game for us is a danger game, North included.  Just need to keep winning and bank the points at this stage of the season.

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We are not currently playing our best footy. Hopefully we can still get results against weaker teams and play ourselves into form. 
We need a few from Casey to put their hand up with a good performance this week. 
Collingwood are currently the best team in the comp and if we are not firing on all clyinders we can be beaten by a lot of teams. 
In a way I think not being top dog in terms of all the talk and hype will suit  us. Should help us get our hunger back A few things Goody said in his presser and on 360 last night reminded me more of early 2021 season more than last year. Still being a work in progress and taking valuable learnings from each game. We are also running out the last quarters well something we did very well in our premiership year but went missing last year. 

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39 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We’re not playing our best,  sides still not settled but we’re running out games really well.

Goody admitted that the side was not settled and he is still looking for the best lineup. That we are third and have the third best percentage after playing against some of last year's finalists is hopefully a good sign.

That we beat the struggling weagles by only 62 points is a worry - it should have been 102 at least. Given the swannies capitulation against the catties our 50 points victory pales more than a bit. And 19 points against the broken toiges is also nothing special.

OTOH so long as we remain close to the top, we still have another 16 games to perfect the team and build to another GF opportunity.

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6 minutes ago, tiers said:

Goody admitted that the side was not settled and he is still looking for the best lineup. That we are third and have the third best percentage after playing against some of last year's finalists is hopefully a good sign.

That we beat the struggling weagles by only 62 points is a worry - it should have been 102 at least. Given the swannies capitulation against the catties our 50 points victory pales more than a bit. And 19 points against the broken toiges is also nothing special.

OTOH so long as we remain close to the top, we still have another 16 games to perfect the team and build to another GF opportunity.

In fairness the swans had a very poor team in with key injuries in F50 and D50 - they were never going to get close to Cats

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12 minutes ago, tiers said:

Goody admitted that the side was not settled and he is still looking for the best lineup. That we are third and have the third best percentage after playing against some of last year's finalists is hopefully a good sign.

That we beat the struggling weagles by only 62 points is a worry - it should have been 102 at least. Given the swannies capitulation against the catties our 50 points victory pales more than a bit. And 19 points against the broken toiges is also nothing special.

OTOH so long as we remain close to the top, we still have another 16 games to perfect the team and build to another GF opportunity.

We played West Coast in Perth in the (relative) heat. So far the only other non-WA side to play West Coast in Perth is GWS, who lost. 

Comparing our game vs Sydney to Geelong’s is foolish. When we played them all of McCartin, McCartin, Rampe, Franklin and Amartey played. None of them played against Geelong. Two markedly different Sydney sides. 

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43 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We’re not playing our best,  sides still not settled but we’re running out games really well. Hopefully form and consistency comes. I think Brown needs to be used as a leading forward and if he’s not fit we need to try Schache 

Its a nice idea with Brown but when has this really worked? It was always his strength running into space at full stretch marking out in front. Many have criticized our kicking inside 50 as the issue but I think its more to do with Brown. Might be the wear and tear of injuries/fitness but he's unable to get much separation from his man these days. Also struggles to get his arms free in contests. The thing that hurts him the most is his inability to do much when the ball hits the deck, especially in contested situations. He doesn't do a great job of using his body to block and bump defenders out of position. Both Petty and JVR have shown more promise in these areas. 

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I watched the game live on TV and I am half way through the replay.

Hibberd had 2 goals kicked on him and lever leaked 3 by half time. Just saying.

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I know our win looked scrappy and rough.There were several mistakes and bad decisions. 

But on reflection the game is no ordinary one. The special day and crowd are never conditions that are conducive to a perfect win. And credit to Ricmond in the pressure they applied.

Also we have constantly through injuries been rotating players. It takes time for them to find form and allow systems to work properly. 

Add in our travel and some shocking umpiring( not the frees paid but the inconsistency in the ones not paid to us) and the win seems more respectable. 

The big upside was Jvr who kicked 3 in the last. Could have been 4. Not many youngsters in their 4th game who have been nullified all night by their opponent, shake it off and do that before 80k people.

Jack is back and is having a bumper season. Gawn stepped in after an injury and several weeks off and reminded us why his work ethic and contested marking are so integral to us. Lever ditto. The youngsters Mcvee and Chandler continue to impress.  

Our forward line has a bit of room to improve. We just need Bbb to come back and play at his best and Kozzie to do what we know he can.

Winners are grinners again.

Edited by leave it to deever
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12 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Its a nice idea with Brown but when has this really worked? It was always his strength running into space at full stretch marking out in front. Many have criticized our kicking inside 50 as the issue but I think its more to do with Brown. Might be the wear and tear of injuries/fitness but he's unable to get much separation from his man these days. Also struggles to get his arms free in contests. The thing that hurts him the most is his inability to do much when the ball hits the deck, especially in contested situations. He doesn't do a great job of using his body to block and bump defenders out of position. Both Petty and JVR have shown more promise in these areas. 

Brown kicked 4 goals in both the first two games of the year and looked great. 
He plays on the oppositions best defender and we don't kick it well to his (or anyone inside 50's) advantage. 
That is the problem, the players dump kick half the time to the oppositions advantage wasting 40% of our inside 50s. 

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1 minute ago, FritschyBusiness said:

Brown kicked 4 goals in both the first two games of the year and looked great. 
He plays on the oppositions best defender and we don't kick it well to his (or anyone inside 50's) advantage. 
That is the problem, the players dump kick half the time to the oppositions advantage wasting 40% of our inside 50s. 

OK so it has nothing to do with the forwards leading patterns or timing? Bayley seems to do quite well... He gets great seperation and generally leads or points to spaces where he can mark the ball in front. I'll admit we don't have the best delivery and delivery inside forward 50 but its as much to do with the forward line and their positioning as it is those kicking it inside to them. 

The long bomb has been covered in other posts. It's not a dump kick, its deliberate. When the forward line is congested and teams are zoning off its better to kick deep for our forwards to make a contest. Gives you more options at goal (mark, ground ball, repeat stoppage). If you kick short in these situations greater risk is too high with turning it over and teams transitioning so quickly these days. With all our backs pushed up you get exposed so easily in these situations.

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2 hours ago, layzie said:

It would just be nice to have one event that doesn't divide us and we can all look to as something done in good taste. 

That day is September 25 2021.

 

1 minute ago, Young Blood said:

The long bomb has been covered in other posts. It's not a dump kick, its deliberate. When the forward line is congested and teams are zoning off its better to kick deep for our forwards to make a contest. Gives you more options at goal (mark, ground ball, repeat stoppage). If you kick short in these situations greater risk is too high with turning it over and teams transitioning so quickly these days. With all our backs pushed up you get exposed so easily in these situations.

Facts. I find it funny that supporters think professional athletes who literally spend all week reviewing and preparing for games would continue to make the same ‘mistake’ for 3 years.

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39 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I know our win looked scrappy and rough.There were several mistakes and bad decisions. 

But on reflection the game is no ordinary one. The special day and crowd are never conditions that are conducive to a perfect win. And credit to Ricmond in the pressure they applied.

Also we have constantly through injuries been rotating players. It takes time for them to find form and allow systems to work properly. 

Add in our travel and some shocking umpiring( not the frees paid but the inconsistency in the ones not paid to us) and the win seems more respectable. 

The big upside was Jvr who kicked 3 in the last. Could have been 4. Not many youngsters in their 4th game who have been nullified all night by their opponent, shake it off and do that before 80k people.

Jack is back and is having a bumper season. Gawn stepped in after an injury and several weeks off and reminded us why his work ethic and contested marking are so integral to us. Lever ditto. The youngsters Mcvee and Chandler continue to impress.  

Our forward line has a bit of room to improve. We just need Bbb to come back and play at his best and Kozzie to do what we know he can.

Winners are grinners again.

Agree with all of that LITD, and will just add that Kozzie is down, but is being very seriously dealt with in contests EVERY week, Seems to be being singled out and Goodie might have to do what the Beagle Bros do when one of their Abblet's/Camerons got picked on. I can imagine they they would have both been in for winges already this year,

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9 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

OK so it has nothing to do with the forwards leading patterns or timing? Bayley seems to do quite well... He gets great seperation and generally leads or points to spaces where he can mark the ball in front. I'll admit we don't have the best delivery and delivery inside forward 50 but its as much to do with the forward line and their positioning as it is those kicking it inside to them. 

The long bomb has been covered in other posts. It's not a dump kick, its deliberate. When the forward line is congested and teams are zoning off its better to kick deep for our forwards to make a contest. Gives you more options at goal (mark, ground ball, repeat stoppage). If you kick short in these situations greater risk is too high with turning it over and teams transitioning so quickly these days. With all our backs pushed up you get exposed so easily in these situations.

5 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

That day is September 25 2021.

 

Facts. I find it funny that supporters think professional athletes who literally spend all week reviewing and preparing for games would continue to make the same ‘mistake’ for 3 years.

I understand it's deliberate choice because moving the ball 50 meters forward to a new contest is more ideal when under pressure and unable to get to the outside, which also allows our defense the space and time to structure up, I just think they can do better with the inside 50 entries like we showed in the practice game against st kilda. 

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Really loved Grundy going in and sticking up for van Rooyen when the tigers player dropped his knees (albeit gently) into him after his first big mark in the last quarter.

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3 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

I understand it's deliberate choice because moving the ball 50 meters forward to a new contest is more ideal when under pressure and unable to get to the outside, which also allows our defense the space and time to structure up, I just think they can do better with the inside 50 entries like we showed in the practice game against st kilda. 

Look I definitely agree we need to improve our connection. In both those pre season games we moving the ball quickly using different angles through the middle of the ground to work the ball forward with more precision. This created more space and less predictability for our forwards to lead into. It worked against Sydney as well. However Richmond had the middle of the ground filled any time we won the ball and looked forward on the weekend. Most of the better teams will zone players in the corridor to reduce this, we haven't been able to do as well as teams like Collingwood of navigating this. We do seem to do a decent job of moving the ball side to side and down the wings but it usually results in longer kicks inside with the oppositions defense well set up.

Sorry that was a long winded way of saying if we can find the 45 degree angle kicks off half back and move through the corridor quicker we will get so many better opportunities with leading marks inside forward 50

 

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8 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Look I definitely agree we need to improve our connection. In both those pre season games we moving the ball quickly using different angles through the middle of the ground to work the ball forward with more precision. This created more space and less predictability for our forwards to lead into. It worked against Sydney as well. However Richmond had the middle of the ground filled any time we won the ball and looked forward on the weekend. Most of the better teams will zone players in the corridor to reduce this, we haven't been able to do as well as teams like Collingwood of navigating this. We do seem to do a decent job of moving the ball side to side and down the wings but it usually results in longer kicks inside with the oppositions defense well set up.

Sorry that was a long winded way of saying if we can find the 45 degree angle kicks off half back and move through the corridor quicker we will get so many better opportunities with leading marks inside forward 50

 

completely agree, we both think the same way and need to find those kicks and angles we had earlier in the year. 

I also think if we switched the ball a little more as it would open up the ground a bit better. We rarely do it compared to other teams but when we do we tend to get an avenue to goal or at worst a turnover at half forward.  

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      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
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    1 Max Gawn 67
    2 Christian Petracca 55
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    4 Jack Viney 28
    5 Alex Neal-Bullen 27
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    7 Bayley Fritsch 19
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    9 Judd McVee 15
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