Choco Williams is the New Goal Kicking Coach

[Demons1858 1,762]

Not sure this is much of a change obviously williams has been crossing over into kicking efficiency as part of his role as dev coach ... also dont recall him being a great field kick funnily enough ... but a change was needed and we dont have the off field cash to pay for extra specialists ... 

Maybe some these aids that Eddie raved about might help

https://pinpointkickingaid.com.au/

Edited February 14, 2023 by Demons1858

[DubDee 25,917]

8 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Mark "Choco" Williams understand the importance of good kicking in football.

That's why he gets AFL players to do various kicking drills and has designed AFL Sherrin footballs with the red or yellow tape on them to help improve kicking.

It's one of the truly baffling parts of footy for me. Why doesn't everyone value good kicking and how hasn't it gotten significantly better over the past 30 years?  Just look at Garry Lyon of Plugger kick it dead straight from 50. And don't get me started on the fact that most 18yos coming into the system can barely kick on their non-preferred foot. Too much emphasis on working out in the gym and not enough on kicking imo

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

It's one of the truly baffling parts of footy for me. Why doesn't everyone value good kicking and how hasn't it gotten significantly better over the past 30 years?  Just look at Garry Lyon of Plugger kick it dead straight from 50. And don't get me started on the fact that most 18yos coming into the system can barely kick on their non-preferred foot. Too much emphasis on working out in the gym and not enough on kicking imo

Much more important to be able to run 15kms and repeat sprints than kick straight these days unfortunately.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

4 hours ago, DubDee said:

It's one of the truly baffling parts of footy for me. Why doesn't everyone value good kicking and how hasn't it gotten significantly better over the past 30 years?  Just look at Garry Lyon of Plugger kick it dead straight from 50. And don't get me started on the fact that most 18yos coming into the system can barely kick on their non-preferred foot. Too much emphasis on working out in the gym and not enough on kicking imo

Lyon, Plugger, D Jarman just to name a few were pure footballers and great to watch. Players like them oozed skill and that’s why I enjoy watching Fritsch go about it every weekend. Reminds me of the pure talents when I was growing up.

Now it’s more about power athletes imo.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Dee Zephyr

[McQueen 17,865]

7 hours ago, Lefty said:

I don't think it is as simple as that. Already in this thread there have been issues identified in 3 of 5 of our most important players.

Very true. 
 

Next time I shall try harder with my humour. 

[DubDee 25,917]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Much more important to be able to run 15kms and repeat sprints than kick straight these days unfortunately.

that is true and pretty sad.  someone will come in and realise kicking can beat fitness freaks and dominate the league

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

10 hours ago, DubDee said:

that is true and pretty sad.  someone will come in and realise kicking can beat fitness freaks and dominate the league

Clubs have had success and failures with both types. We've chosen players who (apparently) had great disposal skills but never got the ball (Maric, Strauss, Blease and to some extent, Jack Watts). Others were athletes who became great players, such as Jim Stynes. If they were your only choices, who would you have selected - the skillful players or the athlete?   

[DubDee 25,917]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Clubs have had success and failures with both types. We've chosen players who (apparently) had great disposal skills but never got the ball (Maric, Strauss, Blease and to some extent, Jack Watts). Others were athletes who became great players, such as Jim Stynes. If they were your only choices, who would you have selected - the skillful players or the athlete?   

I'd go the Hawthorn model from  2008-2015 and go for quality kicks (that are also competitive and can run)

[layzie 33,862]

Real catch 22. Having a bunch of athletes running around for 2 hours brings severe fatigue contrast with the old days when Plugger on a lead was the most running he did all day. 

Transitioning to the full time professional era has played a part too. More time back then to do the extra hours of practice in front of goal, and I think that has to be said. It was A LOT of extra hours that these guys put in. With all the fitness work and meetings these guys have it is a bit hard to fit it in.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm convinced it's a perfect storm and not a magic bullet reason.

[Demonland 72,230]

[Demonland 72,230]

To those more familiar with Trac's kicking for goal style has it changed at all based on this footage?

There were those that were critical that he released the ball too high in the past. Is this still the case?

[Deeoldfart 8,033]

54 minutes ago, Demonland said:

To those more familiar with Trac's kicking for goal style has it changed at all based on this footage?

There were those that were critical that he released the ball too high in the past. Is this still the case?

First thing I noticed in this clip.  Still a high ball drop, but a significant improvement imo.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Deeoldfart
Typo

[ucanchoose 1,816]

Hopefully he sorts out some seriously bad ball drops like Petracca and Gawn

[IRW 1,387]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:10 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

Much more important to be able to run 15kms and repeat sprints than kick straight these days unfortunately.

That's why they are trying to ruin BBB

[dee-tox 4,835]

11 hours ago, Demonland said:

To those more familiar with Trac's kicking for goal style has it changed at all based on this footage?

There were those that were critical that he released the ball too high in the past. Is this still the case?

Looks much lower in this clip. With Trac it is all about guiding the ball to below his knee. Same as what TMac does. Last year it seemed to be at thigh level.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

It doesn't look like he really guides the ball on to his foot with his right hand. More like he tosses it out in front of himself in a graceful arc that eventually collides with his foot. Less hang time than before and great when kicking tight goals at Gosch's under no pressure. Not so great when in a match and fatigued and huffing and puffing for oxygen. Needs more work.

[Lucifers Hero 39,965]

20 hours ago, Demonland said:

To those more familiar with Trac's kicking for goal style has it changed at all based on this footage?

There were those that were critical that he released the ball too high in the past. Is this still the case?

It looks like he lowers his arms then releases the ball at about hip height whereas before it was about shoulder height. 

But he seems to lean back at contact which could mess with the direction of the ball off the boot.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[drdrake 3,178]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:27 AM, DubDee said:

It's one of the truly baffling parts of footy for me. Why doesn't everyone value good kicking and how hasn't it gotten significantly better over the past 30 years?  Just look at Garry Lyon of Plugger kick it dead straight from 50. And don't get me started on the fact that most 18yos coming into the system can barely kick on their non-preferred foot. Too much emphasis on working out in the gym and not enough on kicking imo

You cant compare the game back 20 to 30 years.  Plugger, Lyon, Dunstall may at tops had to compete with 1 player and maybe some one sitting in the hole in from of them.  I would dare to say they had a lot more shots from 35m out directly in front or on a slight angle.

I'm not overly concerned about our set shots, outside Petracca.  Our field kicking is our biggest issue, we couldn't hit targets which lead to a no risk down the line and then long bomb to a pocket.  Safe football worse case we force a stoppage and set up again.

Boring predictable football, the which the cause of the straight sets exit.

Hopefully, we get confidence in our kicking to go back to taking risks, that was the difference from 21 to 22, not goal kicking

[layzie 33,862]

18 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

First thing I noticed in this clip.  Still a high ball drop, but a significant improvement imo.

Agree, still dropping it a bit high. The straighter line run up is an improvement though. 

[DubDee 25,917]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

You cant compare the game back 20 to 30 years.  Plugger, Lyon, Dunstall may at tops had to compete with 1 player and maybe some one sitting in the hole in from of them.  I would dare to say they had a lot more shots from 35m out directly in front or on a slight angle.

set shot kicking is one area where you can compare to 30 years ago. watch Plugger or Lyon kick from 50 on an angle, even near the boundary. the ball just went straight. 

[Demonland 72,230]

6 minutes ago, DubDee said:

set shot kicking is one area where you can compare to 30 years ago. watch Plugger or Lyon kick from 50 on an angle, even near the boundary. the ball just went straight. 

Lyon rarely missed from the MCC members side boundary.

[Grapeviney 9,729]

14 minutes ago, DubDee said:

set shot kicking is one area where you can compare to 30 years ago. watch Plugger or Lyon kick from 50 on an angle, even near the boundary. the ball just went straight. 

For all his elegance and grace, Lyon finished with a 61% accuracy rate. Plugger's 70% is probably the best you can hope for from a player with a lot of shots on goal. 

I don't have the numbers to back this up is but I doubt accuracy has changed all that much, ever. There was no golden age of goal kicking, and I won't be holding my breath that Choco is going to usher one in now. 

Would love to see better returns from Nibbler and Trac, but all of our KPF are technically sound, and as reliable as they're ever going to be. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

I've looked at the Petracca goal kicking vid a few times now. I don't know whether his ball drop is different or not. But what does seem different to me is the kicking action. Somehow it looks smoother and more effortless. It's as if previously he was always trying to kick the ball out of the ground with tremendous force. Of course, I could just be remembering him attempting shots from 50m+ out in which case the extra effort might have been necessary to ensure he made the distance.

[layzie 33,862]

58 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I've looked at the Petracca goal kicking vid a few times now. I don't know whether his ball drop is different or not. But what does seem different to me is the kicking action. Somehow it looks smoother and more effortless. It's as if previously he was always trying to kick the ball out of the ground with tremendous force. Of course, I could just be remembering him attempting shots from 50m+ out in which case the extra effort might have been necessary to ensure he made the distance.

That could be one of the reasons he's usually good for a big time goal outside 50 whereas inside 30 it's more about guiding it through. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by layzie

[Supreme_Demon 3,885]

Definitely think Christian Petracca's kicking style looks a lot smoother.

Hoping that he, Alex Neal-Bullen, Charlie Spargo and Clayton Oliver kick ALOT more goals in season 2023.

If both Christian Petracca and Clayton Oliver can each kick over 35 goals this season it will put them in strong chances to possibly win that elusive Brownlow Medal.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Supreme_Demon