Leadership and Stability

[Demon17 5,187]

Today's Age has an article on the teams needing new skippers and discusses the likely options for the 11 teams in lay.

I reflected on this given the Dees aren't in the article with the great Max Gawn in charge. But then thought if he wasn't then there are some real standouts who can take on the role, most/all of whom are the equal of better than those being nominetd at other clubs needing new captains.

Another indication to me of this new strength of the club to be blessed with this list.

Interestingly The Age calls time on Dayne Zorko which will be a real test for Fagan IMO. 

[dazzledavey36 54,325]

Jake Lever for me.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

I think the other question is when do we make the transition for Max to hand over the baton.  It was a bit of a sour episode for Nathan Jones at the time, but I think in retrospect, most would agree that Max assuming full sole captains duties at the time he did was almost perfect.

Whenever we do make the call, I'd be more in favour of going all in and naming a sole captain and vice captain.  This joint captains business is a bit of a cop out in my view and it's really suggesting that you don't have full confidence in either, which could be quite undermining to their authority in the role.

[whatwhat say what 22,702]

lever is a clear on-field leader and is brilliant in the media too

has 'next captain' written all over him

[rpfc 28,267]

CP5

[Hawk the Demon 975]

14 minutes ago, rpfc said:

CP5

CP5 is indeed doing 'leadership things'. Encouraging extra off-season sessions, etc....

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

My loose thinking and evaluation of potential candidates is as follows:

1. Jack Viney - think he's really matured in his leadership style over the past few years and clearly has the respect of the playing group, but by the time he might get another crack at the top job, he's going to be close to 30 yo, so not really a pick for the future.  Also proved himself to be a quality VC, so perhaps the best value he'd bring is as strong support for a new captain.  Still part of me loves seeing Jack lead the team in his own right, even if it's just pinch hitting here and there when the captain is unavailable.  So much lead from the front and carry the team on his shoulders like his old man as captain (as an asides, it irks me that Todd is now at North, but it's probably the right outcome and I understand it all the same);

2. Tom McDonald - has strong leadership qualities, but to old;

3.  Steve May - has leadership written all over him and recon he'd make a great captain.  I think he's had the rough edges knocked off him and learnt from those incidents (think we need to remember that Max hasn't always exactly been Mr. Perfect off the field), but overall, I feel similar to Viney and T Mac, age is the enemy of any formal leadership aspirations of Maysie.

4.  Jake Lever - always being touted for his leadership abilities.  Not something that's super obvious from the outer, but I do get where this comes from.

5.  Pertracca, Brayshaw - outside of Lever, I think these guys are the next obvious options and I think it's actually a bit of a toss-up between them and Lever in some ways.  Feel that Brayshaw would take the captains role in his stride, but based purely on my outsiders observations of his personality, I think it has more potential for Pertracca to mess with his head in terms of balancing his personal game / putting additional pressure on himself to perform as captain, similar to a younger Viney.

6.  The developing leaders in waiting: Sparrow, Petty, Rivers, Jordon?, Bowey?

 

Overall though agree with @Demon17 that the spread of leaders we have all over the feild places us so well.  When Jordan Lewis first arrived at the club, back around 2017, a poignant observation was that the mature Hawthorn teams had coaches leaders all over the ground that could take charge mid quarter and the right make in-game decisions and directions out on the feild, but that the MFC lacked this at the time.  I feel that we've now arrived at the point where Hawthorn were once at.  In addition to the aformentioned who would be candidates for the top job, I feel there are also others like Salem, Hibbo, BBB, ANB, Harmes, Fritta that step up and lead at the right time, spreading the leadership around the ground.

[Adam The God 30,134]

Love Trac, but Lever by quite some way. 

[adonski 11,860]

Petty (c)

[dazzledavey36 54,325]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I think the other question is when do we make the transition for Max to hand over the baton.  It was a bit of a sour episode for Nathan Jones at the time, but I think in retrospect, most would agree that Max assuming full sole captains duties at the time he did was almost perfect.

Whenever we do make the call, I'd be more in favour of going all in and naming a sole captain and vice captain.  This joint captains business is a bit of a cop out in my view and it's really suggesting that you don't have full confidence in either, which could be quite undermining to their authority in the role.

Is this in regards to the Viney co captain role??

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

28 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Is this in regards to the Viney co captain role??

No, I was thinking more about the hand over in the captaincy between NJ at the end of 2019 to Max in 2020.  Don't recall Jones being too happy about that at the time, but by the end of his playing time at the club, I think he'sd accepted it, wasn't bitter.  Even though he ultimately missed out in 2021, I get the impression that he was pretty happy about how things had panned out for himself in his life circumstances and for the team.

[tiers 2,829]

Too early to speculate. Maxie has several years left in him and, on disclosed form, there is no-one ready to replace him yet.

Maxie might end up being the best captain that the VFL/AFL has seen.

Because of injuries  he started late and now that he has Grundy as back up, his playing career can be extended.

[Fanatique Demon 2,642]

15 hours ago, Demon17 said:

 

Interestingly The Age calls time on Dayne Zorko which will be a real test for Fagan IMO. 

Zorko’s behaviour in several games last year was “uncaptainly”. Uncaptainish? It’s late… you know what I mean. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,778]

Jake Lever:

- good player ✅ 

- media performer ✅ 

- on field leadership ✅ 

- age profile ✅ 

- would represent the club well to media and corporates ✅ 

Petracca ticks all these boxes as well but Lever just seems like he was born to be a captain.

I wouldn’t think May would be considered due to his age and incidents.

[BDA 22,735]

Lever is the stand-out. 

Viney an option as well. Reckon he has matured over the last few years and would be a good captain. Certainly leads by example.

I'd leave Trac to focus on his footy (and in particular his goal kicking)

[Demongirl35 1,045]

Lever or Trac for me in the next handover 

[DeeZone 9,699]

I love the idea of Jake Lever and CP5 my only knock on Jake is that he is suffering injury issues and the club need to get that sorted asap. Whereas with CP5 he is already a team leader but would the captaincy affect his game style. Max’s durability will help decide the issue as a number of our current leaders may be in their twilight years when Max gives up the captaincy.!!!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

20 hours ago, tiers said:

Too early to speculate. Maxie has several years left in him and, on disclosed form, there is no-one ready to replace him yet.

Maxie might end up being the best captain that the VFL/AFL has seen.

Because of injuries  he started late and now that he has Grundy as back up, his playing career can be extended.

Yeah, nah.

Most stuff on this forum is pure speculation.

Let's all hope Max keeps playing at peak performance until he's 38, but let's face it, he's 31 now, so how much longer should we leave it until we start thinking who might succeed him?

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Max be replaced as captain this season, but I don't think it too far fetched to be asking the question about what would be our succession plan leadership wise for 2024 - 2026.

[rjay 24,889]

Jake Lever is the obvious choice.

The only issue for me is injury. Seems to get a lot of niggles that mean he is not always in full training.

[Demon Disciple 12,068]

2 hours ago, BDA said:

I'd leave Trac to focus on his footy (and in particular his goal kicking)

This is the reason why I reckon Viney has really improved on-field, he doesn’t have to burden himself with the captaincy. 

It can be a poisoned chalice to some, others the magic elixir.

[BDA 22,735]

14 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

This is the reason why I reckon Viney has really improved on-field, he doesn’t have to burden himself with the captaincy. 

It can be a poisoned chalice to some, others the magic elixir.

Yep. I'm not sure captaincy would suit Trac (could be wrong of course). We have plenty of options so i'd rather rather not burden him. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

5 hours ago, BDA said:

Yep. I'm not sure captaincy would suit Trac (could be wrong of course). We have plenty of options so i'd rather rather not burden him. 

I'm partly in the same boat, but I also sense in his personality that being captain might be something that Trac really wants to do and when the time is right he'd be putting his hand up, probably along a few others like Gus and Lever.

Will be interesting come the time whether the club takes the option of the hand picking a captain by the coaches or throws it open to the playing group.  I feel it would be the latter and that's probably the most sensible way to do it really, should the situation be similar to what we have now when the next captain needs to be decided.

[DeeMee 873]

I have a bit of a different take on Lever - love his work but I get the impression some players may not take him seriously - he is a bit of a different cat I reckon.

Viney is obvious but reckon he has found his niche as the perfect VC

Now he has a long term contract I think Gus would be a good heir apparent- he portrays as mature, articulate and I think would handle the additional pressure that Trac may not.

All guesswork really.

[tiers 2,829]

22 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Max be replaced as captain this season, but I don't think it too far fetched to be asking the question about what would be our succession plan leadership wise for 2024 - 2026.

If you want to spend the next few years viewing each game as a contest of sorts for the captaincy and viewing each game as a rehearsal for captaincy behaviours, then do. The overexcited media will do it anyway so we can relax.

I, for one, will not participate in this wasteful ritual and I will just enjoy the footy. I am confident that, when the time comes, the next captain will announce himself at the right time.

[Little Goffy 14,463]

This is one of those little background worries for me. Thankfully not one I expect to see intensify for years.

I feel like we have some of the best vice-captains and leaders from within the group which any club could hope for. On a level with peak Geelong or Hawthorn.

Standards are set, communicated, demonstrated and enforced right through the team. Light shines into every corner.

So, with all that, why am I worried? I just get this feeling like no specific individual after Gawn is quite the full match for a captaincy. All these great leaders we have, their styles and personalities support each other and that may be disturbed if one is made Captain.

If I had to pick one, I'd say Brayshaw is most likely to be able to consciously reshape his behaviour to suit the role.

That's the key feature; that conscious choice to change, the humility and will to become what is needed is what made Gawn the outstanding captain he is. And, pardon my misty eyes here, it is explicitly the legacy of Jim Stynes and the practises of the Reach foundation