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16 hours ago, Demonstone said:

One of those words that mean something completely different to what many people incorrectly assume.

Laconic definition:  Using as few words as possible; pithy and concise. The definition of laconic refers to someone who doesn't talk a lot or uses very few words. 

It’s getting to the stage where I reckon laconic will have its definition updated as it’s misused so much. Our language does evolve, like it or not 🙂

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Everyone agrees we need another key forward and probably a Kozzie type too, but key forward is probably the main need.

Therefore if Jefferson is available at our pick, unless we have a key forward coming next year or a much better player has slipped down the order, or we just like another available player more, it looks likely then we will go for him and give him a couple of years to develop. Tom, BBB and JVR will probably cover next year with Max also filling in for bursts.

That could then resolve our key forwards for years to come.

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20 hours ago, Demonstone said:

It's a footy fan forum.  People are going to post their opinions and thoughts.

Opinion is fine, but ridicule and judgment on an 18 year old based on a 2 minute highlight package is a bit rich. Remember when people had a meltdown over Oliver being picked over Parish? With the state of our list, and the amount of hits compared to misses we’ve had in the last 10 years, I think everyone should be backing whoever the club pick rather than making a judgement over the blokes who are paid to and who ultimately delivered us a Premiership list 😂😂

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17 minutes ago, 12345_54321 said:

Opinion is fine, but ridicule and judgment on an 18 year old based on a 2 minute highlight package is a bit rich. Remember when people had a meltdown over Oliver being picked over Parish? With the state of our list, and the amount of hits compared to misses we’ve had in the last 10 years, I think everyone should be backing whoever the club pick rather than making a judgement over the blokes who are paid to and who ultimately delivered us a Premiership list 😂😂

Oliver over Parrish?? MELTDOWN?? On what Planet...... Myself and MANY were OVERJOYED when we chose Clayton Oliver over a front running, free wheeling Parrish!!!!

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25 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Everyone agrees we need another key forward and probably a Kozzie type too, but key forward is probably the main need.

Therefore if Jefferson is available at our pick, unless we have a key forward coming next year or a much better player has slipped down the order, or we just like another available player more, it looks likely then we will go for him and give him a couple of years to develop. Tom, BBB and JVR will probably cover next year with Max also filling in for bursts.

That could then resolve our key forwards for years to come.

You forgot Schache who is a forward, back and ruck.

I have faith in our recruiters to pick the right person at 13 and 37, if it is Jefferson then they will have watched him on several occasions during the season and have an informed view of the player along with vision taken by them for review by other members of the recruiting staff.

Since I am not a watcher of U18 matches and have seen the highlights like every one else I am in no position to make a judgement on him or any other recruit but sometimes you get a gut feeling after looking at the vision that they should pick someone else when they recruited Sam Weideman I was against picking him and wanted Harry McKay or Charlie Curnow at the time.

He needs to add about 15-20 kgs on in weight to play senior football which may effect his mobility, so if we pick him he will play at Casey for all of 2023 and much of 2024 before he get his chance at the highest level because he would be rag dolled like Jack Watts.

If 2023 recruits are so good then maybe we select players who could play in 2023 in this draft?

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1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Oliver over Parrish?? MELTDOWN?? On what Planet...... Myself and MANY were OVERJOYED when we chose Clayton Oliver over a front running, free wheeling Parrish!!!!

‘Many’ is an overstretch. Maybe you’re a Nostradamus Picket, but I remember vividly the calls by numerous supporters of “why would we pick the fat kid from the country who has only come on extremely late and labeled the ‘bolter’ when Parish is right there”. 

Edited by 12345_54321
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Out of all the main KPF prospects in this draft, Jefferson is the one I've seen the least of. 

What I have seen suggests some clear upside with good hands overhead but he does look quite skinny. I feel we really do need someone that can hold their own in the contest and get physical when required. 

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11 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

You're ruling him out as a player based on 2 minutes of loosely brought together junior highlights?

Yep. You'd think highlights would contain some highlights

From that package he wouldn't appear to have a single attribute other than being tallish

 

I could get more excited about Phillipou

Edited by jnrmac
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31 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yep. You'd think highlights would contain some highlights

From that package he wouldn't appear to have a single attribute other than being tallish

 

I could get more excited about Phillipou

Takes Contested Grab would be a MAJOR K.P.I I would have thought!?

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1 hour ago, layzie said:

Out of all the main KPF prospects in this draft, Jefferson is the one I've seen the least of. 

What I have seen suggests some clear upside with good hands overhead but he does look quite skinny. I feel we really do need someone that can hold their own in the contest and get physical when required. 

That man is van Rooyen. He’s the physical one. The type of forward Jefferson is, very much compliments JVR. 

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7 minutes ago, 12345_54321 said:

That man is van Rooyen. He’s the physical one. The type of forward Jefferson is, very much compliments JVR. 

To an extent yes. I'm starting to think though that to be a KPF in our forward line you need to have at least some level of physicality and strength. With our aim to lock it in there and have repeat stoppages, bring the ball to ground etc there would be a fair bit of grunt work required. I'm sure in time he's bulk up and add strength but he looks like he'll be more the rangey forward than anything else.

According to the reports he does have great speed off the mark and marks in front very well. This comes back to the current problem of the way we move the ball through the middle and deliver into 50 to play to his strengths.

Happy to back the FD on this one if they select him but do have reservations.

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I get some of the trepidation with Jefferson and comparisons some here are making with Weideman.

He projects as more of a Sam Reid type. Jefferson reads the ball in flight very well (amongst the best in the crop) and is mobile inside 50. His standing vertical allows him to reach over a lot of the opponents he came up against in the U18’s.

Yes, he is skinny and yes, he will take time. The club showed patience with JVR, who has a physique that was further advanced than Jefferson. If the team select Jefferson, they’ll no doubt give him time as well.

There is competitiveness and defensive effort in his game. He would have slid in recruiter rankings by now if it was completely absent (see Lemmey’s slide and the uncertainty around Keeler as examples), but the light frame really stops him from throwing weight around in a way Cadman has at times. Clubs will also note that Jefferson played through injury (leg) in the latter part of the season and still performed reasonably well.

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Matthew Jefferson is a very skilled, competetive goal Kicker who moves far and wide and reads the ball very well. He also clunks contested marks. He is also an exceptional young man. He is an attractive proposition for our first pick.

Edited by picket fence
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30 minutes ago, ChaserJ said:

I get some of the trepidation with Jefferson and comparisons some here are making with Weideman.

He projects as more of a Sam Reid type. Jefferson reads the ball in flight very well (amongst the best in the crop) and is mobile inside 50. His standing vertical allows him to reach over a lot of the opponents he came up against in the U18’s.

Yes, he is skinny and yes, he will take time. The club showed patience with JVR, who has a physique that was further advanced than Jefferson. If the team select Jefferson, they’ll no doubt give him time as well.

There is competitiveness and defensive effort in his game. He would have slid in recruiter rankings by now if it was completely absent (see Lemmey’s slide and the uncertainty around Keeler as examples), but the light frame really stops him from throwing weight around in a way Cadman has at times. Clubs will also note that Jefferson played through injury (leg) in the latter part of the season and still performed reasonably well.

Does Jefferson have any ground level game? All the highlights in the video were high marks when he gets a jump at the ball. At 195cm he will need other tricks at AFL level to even be a player.

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On 11/6/2022 at 12:44 PM, Demonstone said:

It's a footy fan forum.  People are going to post their opinions and thoughts.

Of course …. and some will turn out to be right, others wrong. 

On 11/6/2022 at 1:39 PM, adonski said:

He looks a bit laconic in general play but brave in the air 

The misuse / misunderstanding of this word on this forum dates back at least to Brett Grgic and later Jack Watts who both appeared lackadaisical. I don’t know enough about their manner of speaking. 

On 11/7/2022 at 9:27 AM, picket fence said:

Oliver over Parrish?? MELTDOWN?? On what Planet...... Myself and MANY were OVERJOYED when we chose Clayton Oliver over a front running, free wheeling Parrish!!!!

I think there were also many who wanted the slick skinny guy rather that the plump redhead 🙄

On 11/7/2022 at 12:52 PM, layzie said:

To an extent yes. I'm starting to think though that to be a KPF in our forward line you need to have at least some level of physicality and strength. With our aim to lock it in there and have repeat stoppages, bring the ball to ground etc there would be a fair bit of grunt work required. I'm sure in time he's bulk up and add strength but he looks like he'll be more the rangey forward than anything else.

According to the reports he does have great speed off the mark and marks in front very well. This comes back to the current problem of the way we move the ball through the middle and deliver into 50 to play to his strengths.

Happy to back the FD on this one if they select him but do have reservations.

“…to be a KPF in our forward line you need to have at least some level of physicality and strength”

However we did win a Premiership with BBB as a KPF forward who doesn’t exactly meet your criteria.  Just saying  

 

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10 hours ago, monoccular said:

Of course …. and some will turn out to be right, others wrong. 

The misuse / misunderstanding of this word on this forum dates back at least to Brett Grgic and later Jack Watts who both appeared lackadaisical. I don’t know enough about their manner of speaking. 

I think there were also many who wanted the slick skinny guy rather that the plump redhead 🙄

“…to be a KPF in our forward line you need to have at least some level of physicality and strength”

However we did win a Premiership with BBB as a KPF forward who doesn’t exactly meet your criteria.  Just saying  

 

BBB has ruckman height and is a lovely long straight kick for goal and up until this season could draw a free kick each game.

He is more a leading mark than a pack mark, but unfortunately his injury and Tom’s injury, together with Goody’s game plan, cruelled his season in 22.

Hopefully, free of injury and with Tom/JVR in and Goody using him to his best advantage, will see him have another good season or two with us.

If we take Jefferson, that would allow him a couple of years to develop, before needing to play him alongside JVR, who could then be our key forwards for the next period.

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On 11/7/2022 at 11:52 AM, layzie said:

To an extent yes. I'm starting to think though that to be a KPF in our forward line you need to have at least some level of physicality and strength. With our aim to lock it in there and have repeat stoppages, bring the ball to ground etc there would be a fair bit of grunt work required. I'm sure in time he's bulk up and add strength but he looks like he'll be more the rangey forward than anything else.

According to the reports he does have great speed off the mark and marks in front very well. This comes back to the current problem of the way we move the ball through the middle and deliver into 50 to play to his strengths.

Happy to back the FD on this one if they select him but do have reservations.

The idea of physicality ( height and strength physically and of course mentally ) are great attributes in any footballers kit. 

Did we actually look at Fritta in the 2017 Draft and say no he's too light and plays without a good degree of physicality.

I don't think so because we were more concerned about his marking and exciting ball skills and goalkicking!

I maintain that a little more of that and Jefferson would paint a different picture to how we consider him for this years draft. We are still comparing him to the bigger and more developed Cadman who we can't recruit unless a miracle occurs.  
 

Either recruit Jefferson and work with him ( JVR is not the finished product at AFL level but has some varied strings to his bow)  and learn from the Fritta model that with improvement and coaching plus strong motivation based on a high skill level at his craft that can be successful this day and age mixed in with other gifted players in their role. 

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On 11/6/2022 at 11:51 AM, Ugottobekidding said:

They are all experts...

They sure are experts but that doesn't mean they are paid by the MFC - they are such community-minded participants that they offer their services freely, at some personal expense (ie:  for a meagre amount of Internet time and its related provider fees).  

 

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