58 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Maybe - work with me here - we just didn't have the alternatives. Oscar Baker for a banged-up Ed Langdon? I'd take the banged-up Lingers any day.

People just have to accept that sometimes, for reasons you can't control, things don't work out. True in life, especially true in sport.

That's an absolute cop out of an excuse. 

So then what's the point of having fit reserves/depth players right there ready to go if we're not going to bother playing them for injured players? It's utter stupidity and arrogance by Goodwin and glad he got found out for it.

Geelong rested and managed their stars throughout the year such as Selwood and Danger and brought in depth players to cover them. The players they brought in to replace obviously weren't up to the calibre but they were solid enough to play a role. Why couldn't do that with Langdon?

We arrogantly didn't rest players when the opportunity presented itself against West Coast and North Melbourne. 

We took Lever and Gawn up to the West Coast game after Gawn had hurt his knee the previous week and Lever rolled an ankle. Again, stupidity to play them when they should have just stayed back in Melbourne and rested.

Or playing Salem round 1 with his knee completely bandaged up after coming back from a serious knee injury. Bloke last 5 minutes from a normal style tackle.

Goody can't be pulling this [censored] again next year.

Edited November 8, 20222 yr by dazzledavey36

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Goody can't be pulling this [censored] again next year.

Next year just “Don’t do what Donny don’t does”

A few seem to have forgotten the difference between the last 2 months of our season compared to Geelong’s. We had to fight for a double chance all over the country, while Geelong played predominantly at home against much weaker teams.

If you want to over simplify the season maybe start there, and not with the bloke who coached us to our only premiership in 58 years only 13 months ago.

Actually I’ll make it easier for you. In the last month we played 3rd away, 5th away, and 9th (fighting to stay alive) and 4th at home.

Geelong played 12th away and 8th, 10th and 17th at home.

I guarantee if we got that soft a draw we would have rested players.

6 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Actually I’ll make it easier for you. In the last month we played 3rd away, 5th away, and 9th (fighting to stay alive) and 4th at home.

Geelong played 12th away and 8th, 10th and 17th at home.

I guarantee if we got that soft a draw we would have rested players.

Compounding the draw was the fact thst unlike Geelong  we essentially played three finals before the finals. 

The pies and blues games were insane in terms of their pressure, intensity and brutality.

The lions game, both teams were playing for top 4 and the do7ble chance, in front of a sold out gabba and was fierce all game, even though we were on top. And the lions came our with a plan to physical target us (did they have intel about our injuries?)

No wonder we came into the finals banged up.

The cats on the other hand had a dream run into the finals- much like ours in 2021 (we had the one tough game).

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

That's an absolute cop out of an excuse. 

So then what's the point of having fit reserves/depth players right there ready to go if we're not going to bother playing them for injured players? It's utter stupidity and arrogance by Goodwin and glad he got found out for it.

Geelong rested and managed their stars throughout the year such as Selwood and Danger and brought in depth players to cover them. The players they brought in to replace obviously weren't up to the calibre but they were solid enough to play a role. Why couldn't do that with Langdon?

We arrogantly didn't rest players when the opportunity presented itself against West Coast and North Melbourne. 

We took Lever and Gawn up to the West Coast game after Gawn had hurt his knee the previous week and Lever rolled an ankle. Again, stupidity to play them when they should have just stayed back in Melbourne and rested.

Or playing Salem round 1 with his knee completely bandaged up after coming back from a serious knee injury. Bloke last 5 minutes from a normal style tackle.

Goody can't be pulling this [censored] again next year.

Unbelievable that we’d play an injured Gawn and Lever against a team that had  10-11 of their best 22 out.

It was a free 4 points on offer that day and they should not have made the trip.

29 minutes ago, binman said:

Compounding the draw was the fact thst unlike Geelong  we essentially played three finals before the finals. 

The pies and blues games were insane in terms of their pressure, intensity and brutality.

The lions game, both teams were playing for top 4 and the do7ble chance, in front of a sold out gabba and was fierce all game, even though we were on top. And the lions came our with a plan to physical target us (did they have intel about our injuries?)

No wonder we came into the finals banged up.

The cats on the other hand had a dream run into the finals- much like ours in 2021 (we had the one tough game).

Kind of puts the theory to bed that you need a hardened run into the finals.

The pre finals bye surprisingly didn’t freshen us up.

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Unbelievable that we’d play an injured Gawn and Lever against a team that had  10-11 of their best 22 out.

It was a free 4 points on offer that day and they should not have made the trip.

Kind of puts the theory to bed that you need a hardened run into the finals.

The pre finals bye surprisingly didn’t freshen us up.

I think the nuance is around being physically tired, sore, niggles vs impact injuries...

13 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We arrogantly didn't rest players when the opportunity presented itself against West Coast and North Melbourne. 

We took Lever and Gawn up to the West Coast game after Gawn had hurt his knee the previous week and Lever rolled an ankle. Again, stupidity to play them when they should have just stayed back in Melbourne and rested.

This is what bewildered me

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Kind of puts the theory to bed that you need a hardened run into the finals.

Like so much of the analysis of footy, I reckon this is yet another example, like the old soldier out soldier in trope, of applying 1990s logic to the game. 

Injury has long been the key determinate of the chances of the genuine contenders of winning the flag. Yet more often that not it gets downplayed as a factor.

Im increasingly of the view that almost as significant a determinate is fitness. The game is just so aerobically challenging now that teams will not win a flag if they ate not at peak fitness come finals.

Fitness is nor just downplayed, it barely seems to register as a key factor.

Of course fitness and injuries are interrelated  injuries disrupt training programs, and training programs might result in injury, or exacerbate soreness

As an example of the latter, it would appear we were very banged up after the lions game. Yet in the bye week we replicated what we did in tbe pre gf bye in 2021 - all squad, full contact match sim.

Tracc was on 360 that week sporting a split lip. No doubt others copped knocks. Maybe a full contact match simulations was a mistake? 

It's worth considering that there was no pre finals bye in 2021, so if Griffiths was following the Burgess template for his program, which I suspect he was, then the timing of that break was different this season.

 

 

2 hours ago, binman said:

And the lions came our with a plan to physical target us (did they have intel about our injuries?)

Probably knew some of our players were below their best.  Could guarantee they had seen the blueprint to beating us multiple times.  Ramp up the pressure in the 2nd half and they will fold...Just stay within touch in 1st half.

Tactically we try to hold onto games rather than keep scoring.

I don't think we pay any respect to the opp's game plan.

We don't make changes during games.

A lot of our players look like deers in headlights when the pressure is really ramped up.

We have little creativity in our game plan....way too predictable to play against.

If we are to contend next season, a better run with injuries would help, but unless we are to address some of the flaws mentioned here...i predict we will go backwards a fair way. 

 

12 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Actually I’ll make it easier for you. In the last month we played 3rd away, 5th away, and 9th (fighting to stay alive) and 4th at home.

Geelong played 12th away and 8th, 10th and 17th at home.

I guarantee if we got that soft a draw we would have rested players.

We had well and truly started dropping off before the last month of game though. We had lost 5 of the previous 8 games before that last month. We didn't all of a sudden struggle because we came up against top 9 teams in the last month.

The whole point is managing the year with an eye to peaking at the right time, and it seems from the outside we absolutely got that wrong and came into that last month and then finals banged up and not ready.

Besides all that, Geelong were managing players half way through the year, they didn't just start doing it in the last month once they thought they had a good run home.

For us, the ship had pretty much sailed by the last month came around.

On 11/8/2022 at 9:21 AM, Lord Nev said:

Bowey, Chandler, Bedford, Weid, JVR, Laurie, Tomlinson all could have been rotated through at different times late in the year without costing our system too much. You obviously wouldn't do too much at once, but giving the injured players that extra recovery could have made the world of difference.

Cats did it, worked alright for them this year hey?

The concepts of limited blooding of junior players need not infer longer-term replacements onfield. However, their readiness to adjust to the bigtime when and if it comes would be heightened above the level of raw recruit with nothing but training familiarities with regular AFL teamsheets. Injuries were prolific for Demons this past season; as a consequence of little blooding, except for the now-departed Weed, limitation were worn onfield and across team sheets in a regressing series of disappointments.

We have an over reliance on tmac who got injured mid way, and with jacko not firing, and BBB forced to do uncustomary bullocking work, our kicks long to the wings and the forward pockets to relieve pressure and reset were ineffective. Our problems stem from this, and we need a plan b in case of injuries to talls happen again or a funamental change in approach that is less focused on talls

Edited November 9, 20222 yr by Demons1858

2 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

The concepts of limited blooding of junior players need not infer longer-term replacements onfield. However, their readiness to adjust to the bigtime when and if it comes would be heightened above the level of raw recruit with nothing but training familiarities with regular AFL teamsheets. Injuries were prolific for Demons this past season; as a consequence of little blooding, except for the now-departed Weed, limitation were worn onfield and across team sheets in a regressing series of disappointments.

I'm not sure I would call Tomlinson (168 games), Bowey (Premiership player), Chandler and Bedford (4th year players) or Weid (60 games) 'raw recruits'.

That is also beside the fact that you wouldn't bring them in expecting them to carry the team or have a big impact. Just play a role within our system that enables the managing of more needed players preparation for when they are required for the business end of the season.

If our game plan relies on an exact set of 22 players every week then we're in a bit of trouble.

On 11/8/2022 at 8:50 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

That's an absolute cop out of an excuse. 

So then what's the point of having fit reserves/depth players right there ready to go if we're not going to bother playing them for injured players? ...

"We should have played Baker, Weideman and Dunstan more" is a hell of a hill to die on.

As for the rest, nah. Nothing but conjecture, projection and hindsight bias.

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

"We should have played Baker, Weideman and Dunstan more" is a hell of a hill to die on.

As for the rest, nah. Nothing but conjecture, projection and hindsight bias.

Right............

Goodwin should be put in front of a grand jury and under investigation  by the FBI and orCIA for his non coaching performances from rounds 11 through finals 

If he was a sokkah coach he would have been sacked, lucky we're a forgiving sport! 

3 hours ago, adonski said:

Goodwin should be put in front of a grand jury and under investigation  by the FBI and orCIA for his non coaching performances from rounds 11 through finals 

If he was a sokkah coach he would have been sacked, lucky we're a forgiving sport! 

100% agree. 

3 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

100% agree. 

It sounds harsh, but the claim could well be justified by some on reflection.

7 hours ago, adonski said:

Goodwin should be put in front of a grand jury and under investigation  by the FBI and orCIA for his non coaching performances from rounds 11 through finals 

If he was a sokkah coach he would have been sacked, lucky we're a forgiving sport! 

What about the rest of the coaching team? Yze is the next AFL senior coach in waiting. Wasn’t he effectively game day coach. Surely he bears some responsibility as well. 

1 hour ago, BDA said:

What about the rest of the coaching team? Yze is the next AFL senior coach in waiting. Wasn’t he effectively game day coach. Surely he bears some responsibility as well. 

Can have the cell next to Goody 

On 11/9/2022 at 12:13 AM, The heart beats true said:

Actually I’ll make it easier for you. In the last month we played 3rd away, 5th away, and 9th (fighting to stay alive) and 4th at home.

Geelong played 12th away and 8th, 10th and 17th at home.

I guarantee if we got that soft a draw we would have rested players.

"Guarantee"

 

He doesn't do that. Rarely rests players

On 11/8/2022 at 2:51 PM, Engorged Onion said:

For the love of god... 😂

Say what you like but we got beaten 8 times the same way.

 

Sounds pretty stubborn to me

 

8 hours ago, BDA said:

What about the rest of the coaching team? Yze is the next AFL senior coach in waiting. Wasn’t he effectively game day coach. Surely he bears some responsibility as well. 

I wonder if he (the Ooze) was called 'the gameday coach' from convenience as far as Goodwin was concerned. I'd doubt if SG would allow that to fully ramify and intercede in gameday performances, and adjustments; he would not, in my mind,  despatch the strings to the puppets by handing these over to someone else on the critical day across game time - just in case we won the match, afterall.