Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[binman 39,479]

7 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

Tempting to lay the boots into other clubs but I'd be surprised if every club in the league didn't have skeletons in the closet. Even if you take race out of the story, how many other young players have had similar experiences after being drafted?

Yep. 

Things such as this don't happen in a vacuum 

Edited September 21, 2022 by binman

[DeeSpencer 23,642]

11 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Not so independent, after all. 

When they say assist in that context it means answer the questions, not be the one asking them. 

[WalkingCivilWar 34,911]

12 minutes ago, sue said:

Well perhaps he has taken leave so he can have time to be interrogated.

 

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

When they say assist in that context it means answer the questions, not be the one asking them. 

I read it the wrong way. I probably wouldn’t have had it been anyone other than the AFL. 

[tiers 2,785]

I don't know if Clarko is innocent or not but. if the review commissioned by the dorks did not approach him with the allegations and include his response in the report. then the report writers were negligent and the report loses significant value and meaning.

It's called natural justice and if it is good enough for a brownlow medallist then it should be good enough for a coach accused of racist behaviour.

Clarko and Fagan standing down makes good sense.

[Roger Mellie 3,661]

4 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

With due respect Roger, having significant mental health issues in one's family certainly doesn't mean he should have headed up Beyond Blue.

WIth respect RTG, it doesn't mean he shouldn't either. My point was that mental health is a sensitive issue and I don't believe Beyond Blue in particular, nor Jeff's involvement in BB needs to be dragged through the mud by association. Jeff Kennett the HFC president is a different kettle of fish, so knock yourselves out. My opinion only.

[BDA 20,895]

Pretty strong statement from Clarkson. It does seem strange that a report can be issued which makes very serious allegations but does not interview the accused? Is this standard practice? 

[Gawndy the Great 7,991]

Just now, tiers said:

I don't know if Clarko is innocent or not but. if the review commissioned by the dorks did not approach him with the allegations and include his response in the report. then the report writers were negligent and the report loses significant value and meaning.

It's called natural justice and if it is good enough for a brownlow medallist then it should be good enough for a coach accused of racist behaviour.

Clarko and Fagan standing down makes good sense.

100% it comes through as a bit of a witch hunt. I cannot understand why it has been handled the way it has. 

 

 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,642]

2 minutes ago, tiers said:

I don't know if Clarko is innocent or not but. if the review commissioned by the dorks did not approach him with the allegations and include his response in the report. then the report writers were negligent and the report loses significant value and meaning.

It's called natural justice and if it is good enough for a brownlow medallist then it should be good enough for a coach accused of racist behaviour.

Clarko and Fagan standing down makes good sense.

The report was for the Indigenous players stories. Hawthorn were then to investigate, but chose to hand over to the AFL. It's a little unfortunate it's public news now rather than giving that time but I'd expect the justification from the ABC is that Hawthorn had it for 2 weeks and didn't seem to be starting much of an investigation or getting on with supporting the ex players.

[drysdale demon 4,328]

I would be waiting to all Facts are known before making any comment.

[Demonland 66,875]

 

[Demonland 66,875]

 

[Demonland 66,875]

 

[BoBo 2,394]

17 minutes ago, BDA said:

Pretty strong statement from Clarkson. It does seem strange that a report can be issued which makes very serious allegations but does not interview the accused? Is this standard practice? 

As far as I understand, the report was commissioned within the purview of the Collingwood ‘do better’ report, the scope of the report was to find out what experiences indigenous people had whilst being with the Hawks, which means questions were asked and the outcome of those questions are the allegations being made. It wasn’t a report to get to the bottom of the veracity of allegations on this scale, it was to relay experiences and make changes. Given the allegations are so serious, hawthorn gave it to the AFL to deal with from here.

Clarkson and co. will now be able to address the allegations in the AFL investigation that has been announced and this investigation is where the veracity of what has been alleged will be addressed.

Edited September 21, 2022 by BoBo

[Demonland 66,875]

 

[old dee 23,256]

51 minutes ago, sue said:

Gil said he had it a week

Edit: about a week.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/21/afl-investigates-claims-hawthorn-separated-first-nations-players-from-families-and-called-for-pregnancy-termination

AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan said the governing body had received the report “about a week ago”.

Thanks Sue so I can safely  assume it would have stayed buried till next week at the earliest. 

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

47 minutes ago, rpfc said:

@ding and @faultydet you can throw up all you like but what biases and preconceptions do you think that unit takes into its investigations and reports?

Like FMD, there is a massive segment of Australian society who will admit there are issues but not admit the underlying causes, effects or impacts, or any remedies.

Just a message of “why are you making a thing of it?” and excuses or portrayed grievance and victimisation. 

I'm not sure in what context you are calling the two gentlemen but if I recall correctly they are twin brothers which btw is totally irrelevant to anything and everything.  Apologies to them if that is incorrect...

I've always been fond of @ding's cat avatar and it always makes me smile.  Yes also totally irrelevant to anything and everything. 

Sorry for the diversion, folks.  I just needed to add something light hearted to this very sad thread.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Ugottobekidding 915]

Wonder what evidence there is. You would hardly write an article without something to back up the claims. Will be interesting to see what unfolds. Sounds like too much smoke to not be fire.

[Big Col 1,141]

5 hours ago, rpfc said:

I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the initial shock and disgust, my head went to ‘how many other clubs have had this mindset and for how long?’

Devaluing indigenous people is not new, it’s widespread across institutions and how prevalent it is/was may dictate what penalties occur because maybe we would casting a great deal of people out into the ether…

Such a shame we are here still.

A Hawk friend rang me this morning devastated. In a long conversation he said he could no longer support Hawthorn and asked me to prepare a pitch for Melbourne. He'd be choosing a new team.

And much as I'd love to recruit a Dee, I told him to take caution because sadly Hawthorn may not be the only club (eg we know about problems in Collingwood) to have behaved like this and the events of today may lead to others speaking out.

I would be appalled if something similar was revealed at Melbourne FC. This is bigger than football.

[WalkingCivilWar 34,911]

8 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I'm not sure in what context you are calling the two gentlemen but if I recall correctly they are twin brothers which btw is totally irrelevant to anything and everything.  Apologies to them if that is incorrect...

I've always been fond of @ding's cat avatar and it always makes me smile.  Yes also totally irrelevant to anything and everything. 

Sorry for the diversion, folks.  I just needed to add something light hearted to this very sad thread.

So much to unpack, so little time. Firstly, you sound scarily like me. This is the kinda stuff I usually post. In fact, if not for my disdain for cats, I’d legit think I’d posted this.
And Faulty has a twin brother??? So, effectively we have TWO Faultys/ Faulties? 
Seriously Luci, thank you for the welcome distraction, even though it’s likely only fleeting. 💕

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,201]

The only thing vaguely surprising about this is how surprised everybody is. 

1. Horethorn have been a bunch of hypocrites since the 1960's. The 'Family Club' monitor is a complete triumph for the marketing profession. Remember, this is the club that condones thuggery, bash artists and cowardly, behind the play, king hits. There's a veritable arms-length long list of serial offenders. These people are also fathers, brothers, sisters and parents. How dare they knock unconscious someone else's loved one. No wonder in some circles the club is known as Hypocrite Highway.
2. Despite the BS we tell ourselves as a country, we are a deeply racist society. We are a country, like most others it must be said, full of myth making, repressed collective memories and denial of historical truths. We are, for the most part, unwilling to confront our violent history. The shame and guilt is too much to bear, so we scapegoat to ward off the inner demons (no pun intended). I now await the victim blaming to come the way of the accusers.
3. We are now in the era of past wrongs being surfaced and reparations and amends sort. Child sex abuse, rape and sexual harassment, money laundering by the big banks, historical wage theft by everyone from the big corporates to the ABC and the university sector. And now it's the AFL's turn to deal with historical endemic racism in the game. I would be very surprised if there are not skeletons in other closets, including ours, waiting to emerge.

Your author is not guilt free in this context. Time for me to write a letter to Glen James and apologise.

The AFL has much to be proud of in the First Nation's space. However, this is stench wafting across the AFL landscape that is truly appalling. May the AFL lead the way.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

[ding 5,126]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

@ding and @faultydet you can throw up all you like but what biases and preconceptions do you think that unit takes into its investigations and reports?

Like FMD, there is a massive segment of Australian society who will admit there are issues but not admit the underlying causes, effects or impacts, or any remedies.

Just a message of “why are you making a thing of it?” and excuses or portrayed grievance and victimisation. 

Yeah, they are white so they MUST be racist.

Like FMD every white copper is racist.

Yeah, sure.

Attitudes like yours are a part of the problem.

Edited September 21, 2022 by ding

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

1 minute ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

So much to unpack, so little time. Firstly, you sound scarily like me. This is the kinda stuff I usually post. In fact, if not for my disdain for cats, I’d legit think I’d posted this.
And Faulty has a twin brother??? So, effectively we have TWO Faultys/ Faulties? 
Seriously Luci, thank you for the welcome distraction, even though it’s likely only fleeting. 💕

And I thought we were kindred spirits! 😉

[Jibroni 4,342]

5 minutes ago, Big Col said:

A Hawk friend rang me this morning devastated. In a long conversation he said he could no longer support Hawthorn and asked me to prepare a pitch for Melbourne. He'd be choosing a new team.
 

 

That is very sad to hear. Clarko and Fagan come across as men of high integrity and deserve the right to defend these allegations. I would have thought this would be the sentiment of most Hawks supporters until proven otherwise.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jibroni

[Demonland 66,875]

 

[old dee 23,256]

After today it feels like one of those days where I just want to go to bed and pull the dona over my head till in all goes away. What a sad world we are leaving our grand children