Why did we fade out in games?

[loges 6,767]

Lever seemed to roll his ankle every game 

[Monbon 1,840]

3 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Talk from players is there was a 10% drop off in fitness standards since Burgess left....

If true Griffiths needs to depart!

Sauce? (sic)

[Monbon 1,840]

Also, what hasn't been mentioned, is that Melbourne had THE toughest draw in the second half of the season. All the games were against top 8 sides. They led most of the games, including the finals at half time. That, plus the ongoing bruising from injuries would sap most teams. In the end, the Draw needs to be universally homogenized. The same question always arises: How many Interstate games do Geelong and the E Coli Wobblers play, year in, year out???????

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

7 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Also, what hasn't been mentioned, is that Melbourne had THE toughest draw in the second half of the season. All the games were against top 8 sides. They led most of the games, including the finals at half time. That, plus the ongoing bruising from injuries would sap most teams. In the end, the Draw needs to be universally homogenized. The same question always arises: How many Interstate games do Geelong and the E Coli Wobblers play, year in, year out???????

It has been said a gazillion times. 

[Monbon 1,840]

11 minutes ago, CYB said:

It has been said a gazillion times. 

Upon deaf ears...

 

[BDA 22,875]

because we weren't fit enough

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

51 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Also, what hasn't been mentioned, is that Melbourne had THE toughest draw in the second half of the season. All the games were against top 8 sides. They led most of the games, including the finals at half time. That, plus the ongoing bruising from injuries would sap most teams. In the end, the Draw needs to be universally homogenized. The same question always arises: How many Interstate games do Geelong and the E Coli Wobblers play, year in, year out???????

 

42 minutes ago, CYB said:

It has been said a gazillion times. 

Not according to The Mongrel Punt

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/09/11/ten-things-i-learnt-after-the-semi-finals-3/

Ten Things I Learnt After the Semi-Finals

1. Melbourne’s soft draw made them look better than they were

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Not according to The Mongrel Punt

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/09/11/ten-things-i-learnt-after-the-semi-finals-3/

Ten Things I Learnt After the Semi-Finals

1. Melbourne’s soft draw made them look better than they were

If they mean the first 10 rounds then it has to be said. It’s only logical for many to think our 10-0 was a bunch of soft kills.

[Surfer Dee 210]

1. Health.

2. The game evolved to become more offensive. Teams comfortable 3 goals behind in the last quarter. We didn't adapt.

3. Poor efficiency. Sapped our energy regularly.

4. Drop off from key running role players. Spargo, ANB, Harmes, Sparrow,JJ,etc...

[layzie 33,991]

Hopefully this thread finds the answer soon.

[speed demon 818]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:11 PM, gs77 said:

My worry with this is the Cargo Cult Science issue. There's no point duplicating a program outputs if the inputs have changed - player conditioning, injuries, schedule, etc. I hope the 2021 program wasn't being followed blindly, but rather the methodology for its construction was being followed, allowing for evidence-based evolution. The talk earlier in the year that we were being flogged even harder on the training track and that we'd be even fitter than 2021 worried me. We looked knackered as this year wore on. Sparking out of the blocks, getting leads mid-game, and being steadily reeled in and overrun. Week after week with few exceptions.

Great post. Elite sport is tainted with pseudoscience masquerading as properly conducted science. The temptation of fame and money magnetises people to new technology & ideas, while repelling them from boringly adhering to scientific principles.

Seems like this year we overtrained and underperformed. Happens all the time in athletics (and I'm sure other sports). Once an athlete reaches an 'overtrained' state that's it for the season. There's not returning to peak fitness. This is clearly different to the concept of loading/periodisation; but it is what happens when loading/periodisation is overdone. 

I'm sure the club will be reviewing this closely and learning from it. At least we have a core group of players who've done a lot of work over two years. Get the training load management right and I think we'll be back to running out games well next year. 

[Deenooos_ 647]

48 minutes ago, speed demon said:

Great post. Elite sport is tainted with pseudoscience masquerading as properly conducted science. The temptation of fame and money magnetises people to new technology & ideas, while repelling them from boringly adhering to scientific principles.

Seems like this year we overtrained and underperformed. Happens all the time in athletics (and I'm sure other sports). Once an athlete reaches an 'overtrained' state that's it for the season. There's not returning to peak fitness. This is clearly different to the concept of loading/periodisation; but it is what happens when loading/periodisation is overdone. 

I'm sure the club will be reviewing this closely and learning from it. At least we have a core group of players who've done a lot of work over two years. Get the training load management right and I think we'll be back to running out games well next year. 

I'm sure this was exactly what went wrong. I think the coaches took Burgo's philosophy a little bit too literal and we really should not have replicated last year's program when so many players were cooked by injury this year. I was worried too because I knew how fine the line between overtraining and sufficient recovery is.

If loading is done incorrectly athletes can develop "overtraining syndrome" which leads to chronic fatigue. It occurs when prolonged excessive training is combined with other stressors (injuries) and insufficient recovery time. Unfortunately once you develop it, it take several months for your body to return to normal fitness capacity. Just speculation so there's no way of knowing if we developed "OS" as opposed to simply not being fit enough but it begs the question as to why only the bottom two teams performed worse in second halves than us.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Deenooos_

[Kent 2,914]

15 hours ago, Dee*ceiving said:

You missed... Lever banged up can't run 

Other than that, spot on

Salem banged up all year

[JJR 681]

In Greek we call it,  Big Malakias.

[Smokey 4,389]

19 hours ago, IRW said:

I tell you what ..when the seasons over and they print the ladder for the 2020 season have a look at where MFC is placed and get back to me.

It will be 5th.

The test they failed was they could beat the 18th team but ,Lions aside,they pretty much failed to defend their Premiership reputation against the contenders 

And even the Lions at the G in a final sorted them out.Have Brisbane ever won a final in Melbourne before?

I don't know or particularly care but you should stop being precious and accept a disappointing season

 

I will acknowledge " fail" is a harsh label but then " failed to defend a reputation/ Premiership " represents  a different judgement. 

Have Brisbane ever won a final in Melbourne before? A 3-peat would be pretty hard without it lol 

We finished 9th in 2020, by the way. You type with the coherence of a drunk 90 year old. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Not according to The Mongrel Punt

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/09/11/ten-things-i-learnt-after-the-semi-finals-3/

Ten Things I Learnt After the Semi-Finals

1. Melbourne’s soft draw made them look better than they were

11 hours ago, CYB said:

If they mean the first 10 rounds then it has to be said. It’s only logical for many to think our 10-0 was a bunch of soft kills.

That argument is not convincing at all.

We had 11 games against eventual finalists. Richmond had 7, Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney all had 8.

Despite that, we finished 2nd. So even if our 10-0 start was just "soft kills", we had fewer of those opportunities than everyone else in the top 8 and finished above all of them except Geelong.

[layzie 33,991]

I'd say the first 10 games was softer in a sense that it might have given us an extra win or 2. Pretty confident that with any other draw we would have been about 8-2 at worst. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,296]

54 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

That argument is not convincing at all.

We had 11 games against eventual finalists. Richmond had 7, Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney all had 8.

Despite that, we finished 2nd. So even if our 10-0 start was just "soft kills", we had fewer of those opportunities than everyone else in the top 8 and finished above all of them except Geelong.

Yep I thought it was an extremely strange take on the Mongrel Punt as well - I think we clearly had the toughest draw including when and where we played, not just who. I mean we didn't even have a real bye!

[Lord Travis 10,763]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Not according to The Mongrel Punt

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/09/11/ten-things-i-learnt-after-the-semi-finals-3/

Ten Things I Learnt After the Semi-Finals

1. Melbourne’s soft draw made them look better than they were

Usually don't mind the Mongrel Punt, but that is the sh*ttest take on us I've seen. 2021 placings are irrelevant in 2022. Playing Collingwood twice (4th) vs playing Port twice (11th) is obviously harder. How can playing more top placed teams than any other finalist be considered a weak draw? 

Bookmark for that site removed lol

[Monbon 1,840]

Some 'Facts' re 2022 Draw:

First 10 games:

North Melbourne: Played Interstate 3 times. * Against 8 Teams vying for the 8.

Geelong: Played 2 Teams Interstate * Against teams vying for 8: 5

Collingwood: Same as Geelong.

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

4 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

That argument is not convincing at all.

We had 11 games against eventual finalists. Richmond had 7, Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney all had 8.

Despite that, we finished 2nd. So even if our 10-0 start was just "soft kills", we had fewer of those opportunities than everyone else in the top 8 and finished above all of them except Geelong.

100%. Our 2nd half was quite brutal in comparison and even so when the draw is looked at in its totality. What's a bet the eventual winner this year will not be subject to the same draw as we were. 

[Tony Tea 2,809]

As the year wore on, teams clearly avoided trying to kick into Melbourne's zone defence and instead picked short targets until they could dump the ball into the forward 50 with a low kick instead of a bomb. This meant that we had to alter our defensive posture to deal with opponents intent on separating out defenders. This is League Defending 101. Were we able to make the adjustments? Clearly not. As nearly every game in the second half of the year showed, we were okay for half a game, but the effort required to defend a greater spread of opponents seemed to take it out of us. Was this down to our conditioning? Possibly. We should have anticipated something similar. Our seeming lack of fitness in second halves also affected our ability to break away, so it had an effect on our attacking game too. Throw in the pop gun forward line and we could only bang our heads against a brick wall for so long. Since attack is the best form of defence, we lacked a best form of defence. Kick more goals and everything falls into place. Struggle to kick goals and eventually you are going to get hosed the other way. Collingwood and Sydney hosed us the other way. Both had tight defences and lightning fast ball movement, which, once again, we were pushed to defend. Fingers crossed that since nothing happens in isolation, we are able to develop a better fitness level next year and find another clinical avenue to goal. In 2016, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 22 we have dominated inside fifties but been cleaned up the other way in an opponent's short period of domination. Does Goodwin over-commit to defence at the expense of attack? History would suggest maybe. If we can get fitter and our forward play organised next year we'll be in the hunt again, but we've got to, as a priority, find a better system in front half.

[bing181 9,328]

On the back of no break and a long, intense 2021, we were cooked before the season even started, which only got worse as it wore on.

[IRW 1,387]

19 minutes ago, bing181 said:

On the back of no break and a long, intense 2021, we were cooked before the season even started, which only got worse as it wore on.

If you accept that  and I dont because the shorter break happens to finalists,  runners up and Premiers every year , while anyway we claimed to be the fittest group in the league,it seems like a common sense argument for playing a greater spread of the playing list so as to keep the group fresh.

So the answer seems to lie in the Football dept.

In particular Goodwin and Selwyn.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Not according to The Mongrel Punt

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2022/2022/09/11/ten-things-i-learnt-after-the-semi-finals-3/

Ten Things I Learnt After the Semi-Finals

1. Melbourne’s soft draw made them look better than they were

Not a bad article but it's not a draw it's a fixture.  It's constructed / designed by the AFL to try and foster / induce their preferred teams and outcomes to max revenues.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Demon Dynasty