POSTGAME: Rd 21 vs Collingwood

[Dr. Gonzo 22,629]

May-Elliot

Petty-Mihocek

Lever-Johnson

[Gawndy the Great 7,712]

Still stinging but with some reflection I have to acknowledge a few things.

- The game was probably the best H&A game that has been played all year and perhaps in the past 2-3. It was a scintillating game for neutrals and both sides played a very top brand of football. 

- in the end it was 7 points. Expected score would probably tell another story , but unless there is some witchery about, everyone is still trying to work how the Pies keep on doing it.

- Our system is strong but has pretty obvious weakness. The Pies were able to rise to the occasion and exploit it just enough to get the 4 points. 
 

- fitness maybe part of the problem, if our face outs however I think the more pertinent issue is our team defence. We have been in front in all games and teams seem to adjust mid game to counter it. They take more risks, and they seem to keep pulling it off. Some of it is luck, but where there is smoke there is fire. Goody has to address this and the leaders on the ground need to identify it in game and learn how to respond. How good were our responses last year? We haven’t come from behind many times at all this year. 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by CYB

[He de mon 730]

Not sure why, but Spargo was alone on at least three occasions, and in a better postion to kick a goal than the player in possession, but was ignored.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, He de mon said:

Not sure why, but Spargo was alone on at least three occasions, and in a better postion to kick a goal than the player in possession, but was ignored.

Not just Spargs, happened with Pickett too.

I get that we have the pocket delivery part of the game plan, but surely it also allows for hitting up teammates in open spots?

[Gawndy the Great 7,712]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yes but our defense starts with forward 50 pressure which was missing. No pressure up the ground makes an impossible task for our defenders.

Need to drop one of Spargo or ANB. Kozzy has given us something over the last month so gets a pass.

Give Chandler a go. 

[deva5610 970]

9 minutes ago, He de mon said:

Not sure why, but Spargo was alone on at least three occasions, and in a better postion to kick a goal than the player in possession, but was ignored.

Yep. Could watch him literally screaming for the ball on multiple occasions. What do we do? Kick it to BBB in the pocket with half of Collingwood surrounding him.

Pure madness.

[Nascent 7,465]

Happened frequently, one that sticks out was when Rivers was running down the wing line and had a free player at the top of the 50 running towards goal. Rives didn't even look and bombed to the pocket.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,629]

36 minutes ago, He de mon said:

Not sure why, but Spargo was alone on at least three occasions, and in a better postion to kick a goal than the player in possession, but was ignored.

I don't get it - using those options forces the oppo defense to pay attention as well meaning they can't just double team Brown/Fritsch. Use those options and the forward line opens up.

[BoBo 2,281]

23 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not just Spargs, happened with Pickett too.

I get that we have the pocket delivery part of the game plan, but surely it also allows for hitting up teammates in open spots?

We’ve been doing it all year and it’s maddening. We cost ourselves goals every game (yes, even when we win). We make it harder on ourselves!!!!!!!!

[Diamond_Jim 12,017]

7 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Happened frequently, one that sticks out was when Rivers was running down the wing line and had a free player at the top of the 50 running towards goal. Rives didn't even look and bombed to the pocket.

That's team orders. Turning it over on 50 in the corridor is a non negotiable thus the pocket.

On the other hand if Goodwin said "back your judgement"............

[von 1,241]

They will not kick that straight against us again. Talk about taking your chances. Gravity is undefeated and I look forward to it slapping those smug wankers back down to earth soon enough. 

[The heart beats true 16,485]

I don’t get people writing this off as ‘they kicked straight and we didn’t, won’t happen again’. Cast your mind back 2 weeks ago against the Dogs. It was a carbon copy game. We get out to a 4 goal lead, they dominate us after half time and kick straight. It did happen again, 2 weeks later.

I see 2 clear issues. Fitness, which I’ve spoken about a bit, it’s not working and we got it wrong. We aren’t at the level required to execute consistently.

The other issue is on turnover teams are getting the ball deep and straight against us. Those are much easier goals to kick - hence the accuracy of our opponents. That’s a big structural issue.

[Diamond_Jim 12,017]

29 minutes ago, von said:

They will not kick that straight against us again. Talk about taking your chances. Gravity is undefeated and I look forward to it slapping those smug wankers back down to earth soon enough. 

And we're unlikely to have an almost 2-1 ratio of inside 50's

[DeeZee 6,853]

Can’t believe how bad I’m feeling still.

Been sitting in my guts all day.

 

[At the break of Gawn 3,672]

58 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

That's team orders. Turning it over on 50 in the corridor is a non negotiable thus the pocket.

On the other hand if Goodwin said "back your judgement"............

Nup, I doubt it. Rivers has never been one to have good vision. Kicking long is his one wood.

[Fork 'em 6,572]

16 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Can’t believe how bad I’m feeling still.

Been sitting in my guts all day.

 

I'm ok now.
Gonna suck when I front up to the collingwood morons at work on Monday tho'.

[Clintosaurus 6,674]

10 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

I'm ok now.
Gonna suck when I front up to the collingwood morons at work on Monday tho'.

Don't think I have any. If I do I'll just say the umps got them home.

[loges 6,245]

Obviously several reasons why we lost but it is concerning that in both the Bulldogs and Pies games HTB was not applied consistently to both sides.

[Deemania since 56 6,240]

5 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Our inside 50 conversion rate was 4% above AFL average last night. As poor as it looked at times, we scored fine. We lost because their conversion was 16% higher than AFL average. We defended poorly all across the ground, especially defensive 50.

This was a defensive loss, not an offensive one. 

The coaches would be furious we got into another shootout instead of slowing the game down and controlling it. It’s a failure on their part that they weren’t able to get the players to do that. I was sitting near the bench, and last night is the most animated and angry I can remember seeing Goodwin.

 If only Goodwin could turn those looks into words and subsequently although more quickly into onfield deeds and we could all reap the very subsequential benefits of having a reactive Coach with tricks up his sleeves for control of the strings that contribute to player dominance. 

[jnrmac 19,324]

1 hour ago, von said:

They will not kick that straight against us again. Talk about taking your chances. Gravity is undefeated and I look forward to it slapping those smug wankers back down to earth soon enough. 

They did in rd 13

 

In fact the 4thqtr rd 13 and 1st qtr this round they kicked 11 straight

[Deemania since 56 6,240]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't get it - using those options forces the oppo defense to pay attention as well meaning they can't just double team Brown/Fritsch. Use those options and the forward line opens up.

That's all we offer opponents - an opportunity to double team in our forward line specialists - because of a distinct lack of mobility and no real support structures near goal. Had we that plan to be fully mobile, our midfielders' kicks would hit targets, opposition defenders would be forced to play catch-up all game (exhausting and uncertain), and the half-backs + flankers + midfielders and half-forwards we field would have targets to more easily hit, more frequently. 

[OutOfTheCentre21 164]

2 hours ago, CYB said:

Still stinging but with some reflection I have to acknowledge a few things.

- The game was probably the best H&A game that has been played all year and perhaps in the past 2-3. It was a scintillating game for neutrals and both sides played a very top brand of football. 

- in the end it was 7 points. Expected score would probably tell another story , but unless there is some witchery about, everyone is still trying to work how the Pies keep on doing it.

- Our system is strong but has pretty obvious weakness. The Pies were able to rise to the occasion and exploit it just enough to get the 4 points. 
 

- fitness maybe part of the problem, if our face outs however I think the more pertinent issue is our team defence. We have been in front in all games and teams seem to adjust mid game to counter it. They take more risks, and they seem to keep pulling it off. Some of it is luck, but where there is smoke there is fire. Goody has to address this and the leaders on the ground need to identify it in game and learn how to respond. How good were our responses last year? We haven’t come from behind many times at all this year. 

 

I checked out the expected scores for you. We would have won (surprise surprise). 

92.7 to 82.0. 

[von 1,241]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

And we're unlikely to have an almost 2-1 ratio of inside 50's

We do that quite often. We dominated the game in many areas. Our game plan as boring and predictable as it is is still a more sustainable one. We are a few players taking the next step or a bit of forward line cohesion away from playing great football.

[Clintosaurus 6,674]

21 minutes ago, loges said:

Obviously several reasons why we lost but it is concerning that in both the Bulldogs and Pies games HTB was not applied consistently to both sides.

We have received less frees than every other team this year. This is one reason why.

[Macca 16,173]

All this talk about not wanting to get into a shoot-out is a bit moot

If the opposition want to attack at breakneck speed through the corridor, criss-crossing or switching play towards goal then it's up to our team to stop them doing that (if we can)

If we intercept then we are in a great position to counter-attack at speed.  Hesitate and the moment is lost

Teams are abandoning the safety-first way of playing (boundary line play or holding on to the ball for an eternity) Working for a stoppage can be counter-productive unless positives come from those stoppages

One thing is for sure, we haven't played with an open forward line for most of the season.  The other teams have flooded back with a high concentration on intercept marks ... and with the better teams, they intercept and then they are off to the races

To play at that breakneck speed using all of the ground requires highly skilled players.  McRae has summed up his list of players well and he is playing to their strengths

Edited August 6, 2022 by Macca