1 hour ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

This narrative is an absolute myth that refuses to die.

When Frawley left, he was a 25 YO, All Australian Full Back, and one of the very best key defenders in the game. He was absolutely worth Band 1 Compo at the time - not our fault he peaked so young.

McKay is a handy player, but can't see how he falls into the same category.

 

 

hence why manipulate was in quotation marks

we got what he was worth imo

Let's get Duursma. Think I'm a convert

3 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

The why is because they’ve been a drag on the comp for too long (we were coming off a premiership) and they will soon lose the financial benefit of Tassie games. Being unwatchable is one thing, but unviable is something else altogether.

The how is similar to how GC were able to add Alex Davies, Joel Jeffrey & others to their list (or pre-list) as zone academy selections without bid matching as they were such a moribund outfit. That only expired last year. 

I don’t like it, but prefer this to a priority or compo pick at the top end to avoid pushing our Freo pick back any further (given Walter will already push it back by one). 

 

But Sanders as a likely top 10 pick does effectively push our picks back 1, especially if we wanted to take him with our first pick.

In fact, if they leave him in the draft and let North match a bid we should bid as early as possible for him and chew up their second round picks.

North deserve nothing, they were gifted Logue (and Tucker) and they’ve shown no intent to get better by trading picks in or more experience outside using extra list spots for Shiels and Howe. 

 

A while back this draft year was touted as a ‘super draft’. Does anyone know how strong and deep it is looking now? 

Edited July 18, 20231 yr by FarNorthernD

13 minutes ago, FarNorthernD said:

A while back this draft year was touted as a ‘super draft’. Does anyone know how strong and deep it is looking now? 

Not that super IMO. Top end is always good, but from what I’ve read this draft is not deep. Add in the amount of academy and compromised picks and it’s becoming a dud. Last years supposed weak draft is looking like it might be the best for a long time, with heaps of kids already performing well at afl level. 

Lol, it wasn't that long ago that some on here were saying 2023 would be a super draft and a bunch of us were saying every year is allegedly a super draft until it isn't.

But if JT doesn't rate the crop, we'll trade the picks for a ready made. We win either way.

So it'll be fascinating to see which way we go.

Edited July 18, 20231 yr by A F

3 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

Can’t see anyone paying McKay enough to trigger that level of compo. He’d need an 800k offer, no one is paying that for him right now.

Giving North the capacity to prelist Sanders (who just won the Larke Medal) will be a way to give North a priority pick without calling it a priority pick. At best the McKay compo would be end of first round. At best. His form has been horrible this year and there are other options for key defenders this year (Ratugolea, potentially Barrass).

I can't see it either, but the afl keep it secret and the cynic in me says they will manipulate the system and dress it up the compensation anyway they want.

You're probably right though in Sanders/Callinan being the main draft assistance if that were to eventuate. In that case hopefully FA compo will remain true to contract value.

I watched a little of the Champs here and there, but I'm certainly intrigued by the lack of midfield prospects in the top 10-15 of popular draft ratings. So now that someone has very usefully clipped some videos together I've looked through a few and found a couple of interesting players.

The first one is Darcy Wilson who's a 185cm wing/mid. Late October birth so maybe a bit of a late bloomer. From Wang I believe so I'm sure @dazzledavey36 will know more about him.

His kicking and decision making at stoppages both need a fair bit of work (likes to bang it forward under pressure), but he looks a proper athlete with some really quick feet and he has some creativity to his decision making in space too. I expect he'll start to fill out and end up with a very handy frame for a running player too. I like the way he steps tacklers and releases handballs in to space.

Handy first Academy game against the Port reserves. Then really hitting his straps at Talent League level where he's clearly a cut above. Champs games seemed to be a mixed bag. I think he's one to watch in the back end of the Talent League season as he could really dominate now he's had experiences at the higher level.

 

The second one, who I actually like a little more is Eastern Ranges wingman Caleb Windsor.

He seems to have a really good burst of speed and is a nice user of the ball. What I like is when he's under pressure in contested situations he seems to have a plan of where to go to keep the ball moving. And a lovely short/medium kick that is well weighted. Demonstrates some really clean hands too, on the deck and looks solid overhead.

 

 

On 4/17/2023 at 11:33 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

He's a beauty mate. A high end talent who's been performing consistently well since a young age.

Son of Wangaratta Rovers legend Mick Wilson, and his mum and grandmother are also netball sporting legends. So the football and sport pedigree is strong in his blood.

The rate that he's going it wouldn't surprised me if he sneaks into top 10 calculations or 15 at best. A very professional kid who is pretty driven to succeed at thr higher level and I think the big watch will be his form with Vic Country later this year at the championships.

His under 16's year was pretty dominant and played as an inside midfielder as well as stints up forward and back. He's got a lot of Trent Cotchin like traits when he's in there so in terms of elite midfielders at junior level this year he's certainly right up there.

Don't let his skinny frame put you off. Started playing senior ovens and Murray football at 16 years of age and fitted in seamlessly against hardened bodies.

His work rate and ability to get up and down the ground is pretty insane for his age. He's just a ridiculously hard worker on field.

Type of professional kid you'd love to bring into your club culture in terms of on field/off field work ethic and professionalism. 

 

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I watched a little of the Champs here and there, but I'm certainly intrigued by the lack of midfield prospects in the top 10-15 of popular draft ratings. So now that someone has very usefully clipped some videos together I've looked through a few and found a couple of interesting players.

The first one is Darcy Wilson who's a 185cm wing/mid. Late October birth so maybe a bit of a late bloomer. From Wang I believe so I'm sure @dazzledavey36 will know more about him.

His kicking and decision making at stoppages both need a fair bit of work (likes to bang it forward under pressure), but he looks a proper athlete with some really quick feet and he has some creativity to his decision making in space too. I expect he'll start to fill out and end up with a very handy frame for a running player too. I like the way he steps tacklers and releases handballs in to space.

Handy first Academy game against the Port reserves. Then really hitting his straps at Talent League level where he's clearly a cut above. Champs games seemed to be a mixed bag. I think he's one to watch in the back end of the Talent League season as he could really dominate now he's had experiences at the higher level.

 

Daz provided some great info on him earlier in the thread. 

With the championship now over, here’s some indication of a top 40. 
 

1-10. Harley Reid, Jed Walter (suns academy) , Coby Mckercher, Ryley Sanders, Daniel Curtin, Zane Duursma, Nick Watson, Ethan Read (suns academy), Connor O’Sullivan , Darcy Wilson

11-20 Archer Reid, Mitchell Edwards (Freo nga) , Joel Freijah , Logan Morris, Ashton Moir , Jake Rogers (suns academy) , George Stevens, Nathan Philactides, Ollie Murphy, Riley Hardeman 

21-40. Nate Caddy, Koltyn Tholstrup, Harvey Johnston, Jordan Croft (bulldogs f/son) , Alex Holt, Archie Roberts, Will Dawson, Harry Demattia, Caiden Cleary (swans academy) , Clay Hall, Will Graham (Suns academy)  , Jack Delean, Will Lorenz, Kade DelaRue, Angus Hastie, Cooper Simpson, Luamon Luai, Will Patton, Will McCabe (hawks F/son) , Michael Rudd.  

others - Jack Callinan, Koby Shipp, Caleb Windsor, Rye Penny, Billy Wilson, Aiden Odriscoll, Harvey Thomas (giants academy). 
 

For the Dees, others of interest were:

 Kynan Brown as a father son (Nathan Brown) would be looked at around pick 60 or as a rookie and would get nominated in my view. He’s a tough skinny scrapper with a huge heart and tenacity.  His skills are ok (left foot dominant) but can have some turnovers under pressure. 
 

Orlando Turner is from NT under our NGA academy. Whilst he was largely quiet, gf showed glimpses of brilliance and goalkicking smarts to indicate he might be picked to develop as a small forward.  Rookie pick likely. 

Sam Van Rooyen (brother of Jacob) could be rookie pick as well. He’s tall and lean and watching him v Vic metro , had a few “nearly moments” where we spilled marks or juggled attempts. Very nice kick for goal.  He has the base physique of a key forward and it would be good if the Dees gave him an opportunity.  

19 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

With the championship now over, here’s some indication of a top 40. 
 

1-10. Harley Reid, Jed Walter (suns academy) , Coby Mckercher, Ryley Sanders, Daniel Curtin, Zane Duursma, Nick Watson, Ethan Read (suns academy), Connor O’Sullivan , Darcy Wilson

11-20 Archer Reid, Mitchell Edwards (Freo nga) , Joel Freijah , Logan Morris, Ashton Moir , Jake Rogers (suns academy) , George Stevens, Nathan Philactides, Ollie Murphy, Riley Hardeman 

21-40. Nate Caddy, Koltyn Tholstrup, Harvey Johnston, Jordan Croft (bulldogs f/son) , Alex Holt, Archie Roberts, Will Dawson, Harry Demattia, Caiden Cleary (swans academy) , Clay Hall, Will Graham (Suns academy)  , Jack Delean, Will Lorenz, Kade DelaRue, Angus Hastie, Cooper Simpson, Luamon Luai, Will Patton, Will McCabe (hawks F/son) , Michael Rudd.  

others - Jack Callinan, Koby Shipp, Caleb Windsor, Rye Penny, Billy Wilson, Aiden Odriscoll, Harvey Thomas (giants academy). 
 

For the Dees, others of interest were:

 Kynan Brown as a father son (Nathan Brown) would be looked at around pick 60 or as a rookie and would get nominated in my view. He’s a tough skinny scrapper with a huge heart and tenacity.  His skills are ok (left foot dominant) but can have some turnovers under pressure. 
 

Orlando Turner is from NT under our NGA academy. Whilst he was largely quiet, gf showed glimpses of brilliance and goalkicking smarts to indicate he might be picked to develop as a small forward.  Rookie pick likely. 

Sam Van Rooyen (brother of Jacob) could be rookie pick as well. He’s tall and lean and watching him v Vic metro , had a few “nearly moments” where we spilled marks or juggled attempts. Very nice kick for goal.  He has the base physique of a key forward and it would be good if the Dees gave him an opportunity.  

Good summary, hopefully we get a pick 4/5 or 6 from Freo's ladder finish.  Pick 4 would be sensational. GC will be keen to trade their 1st rounder likely around picks 7/8 or 9.

With so many Academy and F/S picks tipped to go fairly early best for us to trade for that GC pick before the 'eyes' are picked out of the remaining players.

From your summary and cross referencing to the ESPN July power rankings there are very good chances of getting a couple of elite players in that top 10 if we can also 'nab' the GC 1st rounder.

 

 

If memory serves correctly we had Duursma training with us over the preseason.  Had track watchers very excited by his performances in match sims.

 

3 hours ago, FarNorthernD said:

A while back this draft year was touted as a ‘super draft’. Does anyone know how strong and deep it is looking now? 

Such is the saturation of AFL media, by the time we hit draft night(s) this will be touted as a super draft.  Always is.  

Every media pundit needs to create content singing the praises of every star in the fist 25 picks and they’re always trying to outdo each other.

 

On 7/17/2023 at 6:44 PM, dee-tox said:

Me too. I have this idea of a quick, hard running 192cm + midfielder with great skills who can hit targets. A Finn Callahan type.

Then again someone like McKercher would be an ideal replacement for Viney...

McKercher has pace, dare and is a good kick. A left footer too I think. Can play inside and out, takes the game on and can brush aside tackles.

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

With the championship now over, here’s some indication of a top 40. 
 

1-10. Harley Reid, Jed Walter (suns academy) , Coby Mckercher, Ryley Sanders, Daniel Curtin, Zane Duursma, Nick Watson, Ethan Read (suns academy), Connor O’Sullivan , Darcy Wilson

11-20 Archer Reid, Mitchell Edwards (Freo nga) , Joel Freijah , Logan Morris, Ashton Moir , Jake Rogers (suns academy) , George Stevens, Nathan Philactides, Ollie Murphy, Riley Hardeman 

21-40. Nate Caddy, Koltyn Tholstrup, Harvey Johnston, Jordan Croft (bulldogs f/son) , Alex Holt, Archie Roberts, Will Dawson, Harry Demattia, Caiden Cleary (swans academy) , Clay Hall, Will Graham (Suns academy)  , Jack Delean, Will Lorenz, Kade DelaRue, Angus Hastie, Cooper Simpson, Luamon Luai, Will Patton, Will McCabe (hawks F/son) , Michael Rudd.  

others - Jack Callinan, Koby Shipp, Caleb Windsor, Rye Penny, Billy Wilson, Aiden Odriscoll, Harvey Thomas (giants academy). 
 

For the Dees, others of interest were:

 Kynan Brown as a father son (Nathan Brown) would be looked at around pick 60 or as a rookie and would get nominated in my view. He’s a tough skinny scrapper with a huge heart and tenacity.  His skills are ok (left foot dominant) but can have some turnovers under pressure. 
 

Orlando Turner is from NT under our NGA academy. Whilst he was largely quiet, gf showed glimpses of brilliance and goalkicking smarts to indicate he might be picked to develop as a small forward.  Rookie pick likely. 

Sam Van Rooyen (brother of Jacob) could be rookie pick as well. He’s tall and lean and watching him v Vic metro , had a few “nearly moments” where we spilled marks or juggled attempts. Very nice kick for goal.  He has the base physique of a key forward and it would be good if the Dees gave him an opportunity.  

SVR isn’t a great kick , it needs work and if someone rookies him his leading patterns need work. Has athletic ability but will take time, spills marks because he flies for plenty when his greatest strength is on a lead

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

But Sanders as a likely top 10 pick does effectively push our picks back 1, especially if we wanted to take him with our first pick.

In fact, if they leave him in the draft and let North match a bid we should bid as early as possible for him and chew up their second round picks.

North deserve nothing, they were gifted Logue (and Tucker) and they’ve shown no intent to get better by trading picks in or more experience outside using extra list spots for Shiels and Howe. 

 

I take your point @DeeSpencer, although if North are granted access to Sanders, I can't see him being in the draft pool to be bid on, will be some form of pre-listing to avoid a bid matching scenario.

FWIW I don't think Sanders is the one for us.  I think he'll be good midfielder, but hasn't yet shown capacity to play in other positions and I don't think he damages with his possesions in the same way a pure mid like Ashcroft has.  He accumulated really well in the Champs, but I also wonder what role the shallow midfield depth in Vic and SA played in enabling the outright dominance from the Allies midfield group. Metro's best performed mids were basically three (albeit highly talented) bottom agers who aren't draft eligible this year, which probably speaks to the broad concerns on the depth of this years draft.  

For clubs who need to bring in their next high volume clearance winner (like Sydney), he'd be a great pick, but not where I see our draft needs at this time. Would think he'd be in the 5-10 range if Sanders stays in the open pool.

30 minutes ago, ChaserJ said:

I take your point @DeeSpencer, although if North are granted access to Sanders, I can't see him being in the draft pool to be bid on, will be some form of pre-listing to avoid a bid matching scenario.

FWIW I don't think Sanders is the one for us.  I think he'll be good midfielder, but hasn't yet shown capacity to play in other positions and I don't think he damages with his possesions in the same way a pure mid like Ashcroft has.  He accumulated really well in the Champs, but I also wonder what role the shallow midfield depth in Vic and SA played in enabling the outright dominance from the Allies midfield group. Metro's best performed mids were basically three (albeit highly talented) bottom agers who aren't draft eligible this year, which probably speaks to the broad concerns on the depth of this years draft.  

For clubs who need to bring in their next high volume clearance winner (like Sydney), he'd be a great pick, but not where I see our draft needs at this time. Would think he'd be in the 5-10 range if Sanders stays in the open pool.

I understand their midfield gets beaten up around the clearances but I think Sydney need to draft a key tall defender or try and convert someone in similar fashion to what they did with Ted Richards. Talk about Tom Barrass, but he won’t come cheap

15 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I understand their midfield gets beaten up around the clearances but I think Sydney need to draft a key tall defender or try and convert someone in similar fashion to what they did with Ted Richards. Talk about Tom Barrass, but he won’t come cheap

No doubt, haven't looked the same down back since Paddy McCartin went out of the team. Barrass and Harry Himmelberg are the two that keep getting linked to the Swans.

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' July ranking

https://www.afl.com.au/news/981930/cal-twomey-s-phantom-form-guide-top-draft-prospects-july-ranking

Seems to like the big boys more than some of the other rankings

1. Harley Reid (Mid/Fwd)
2. Jed Walters  (Key Fwd) (Suns Academy)
3. Nick Watson (Fwd)
4. Colby McKercher (Mid)
5. Daniel Curtin (Key Def/Fwd)
6. Zane Duursma (Mid/Fwd)
7. Nate Caddy (Key Fwd/Mid)
8. Ethan Read (Ruck) (Suns Academy)
9. Ryley Sanders (Mid)
10. Connor O'sullivan (Key Def/Fwd)
11. Jake Rogers (Mid) (Suns Academy)
12. Darcy Wilson (Mid/Fwd)
13. Jordan Croft (Key Fwd)
14. Mitch Edwards (Ruck) (Freo NGA but will lose)
15. Will McCabe (Key Def/Fwd) (Hawks F/S)
16. Ollie Murphy (Key Def)
17. Archie Roberts (Def)
18. Riley Hardeman (Mid) 
19. Harry DeMattia (Mid/Fwd)
20. Will Green (Ruck)

 

Dear Santa, (Jason Taylor)

Here is my wishlist

First pick 

McKercher / Duursma

Second Pick

Watson

Edited July 19, 20231 yr by Dee Viney Intervention

I assume Gold Coast could try and take all 3 Northern Adademy players (Cal Thomey's Picks 2, 8 & 11) but can only match bids on the first 2 under the Northern Academy Draft Rules?

They'll try to trade out Pick 6 for points. At this stage could they trade say 6 & 44 for Melbourne's 18, 23 & 37 (assuming of course Melbourne are Premiers in 2023 😀)? If Melbourne had 4 & 6 and kept our 5th round pick for Kynan Brown Father/Son we'd be very well placed to either trade up or my preference take 2 players in the 1st Round.

I can't find the article which talks about a limit of 2 Academy players.  It was in a discussion related to GCS who have 3 top Academy players.  I suspect it will be discussed a lot as the EOS gets closer.

Yes, they can take the 3rd player on a straight out bid.