CHANGES: Rd 16 vs Adelaide

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

If you call 2 behinds "very busy" I guess...

He was all over the ground, if you actually watch the game closely

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He was all over the ground, if you actually watch the game closely

And?

2 behinds in the first quarter.

Finished the game with 11 disposals at 18% efficiency.

I get you're a retired gentleman, but we have very different definitions of "very busy".

[Young Blood 2,575]

Me watching Sir Why you Little and Lord Nev across dif topics

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,763]

20 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Me watching Sir Why you Little and Lord Nev across dif topics

I'd back in Lord Nev's knowledge of footy over SWYL any day of the week.

BBB was fairly ordinary the other night, but he's slowly improving from the lows of the Freo and Sydney debacles and we certainly don't have any other options at the moment.

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

And?

2 behinds in the first quarter.

Finished the game with 11 disposals at 18% efficiency.

I get you're a retired gentleman, but we have very different definitions of "very busy".

I will keep watching the games and you read the stats sheets

We could well have been a lot further behind without Brown’s work in the 1st Quarter. 
But you believe whatever you want 

[deebunked 285]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Agree with your first point about Mitch Brown. Just doesn't have what it takes anymore to be a regular AFL player.

With your last point, in fairness Geelong also have a five day break too. I expect multiple Geelong restings given they have North at home next weekend.

True, but Geelong have the luxury of being home to clueless North.

My guess is Scott will tell his players to put North to bed asap before half-time. He'll then rest his oldest players and coast in the second half.

We wont have that luxury although the crows seem to have copped  injuries. If Walker out then we should have an easy day..........maybe.

Stilll beat Geelong.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

I will keep watching the games and you read the stats sheets

We could well have been a lot further behind without Brown’s work in the 1st Quarter. 
But you believe whatever you want 

True, we would have been 2 points further behind.

[dazzledavey36 54,244]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

If you call 2 behinds "very busy" I guess...

7 disposal, 4 marks and yes 2 scoring shots is certainly busy first quarter for a key forward in my eyes. And in fairness those 2 scoring shots were from difficult angles.

But yes, faded as the game went on. But i think Harris Andrew really tightened up because he was certainly playing far too loose in that first quarter.

[drysdale demon 4,830]

1 hour ago, Young Blood said:

Me watching Sir Why you Little and Lord Nev across dif topics

A royal spat, enjoy.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

20 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

7 disposal, 4 marks and yes 2 scoring shots is certainly busy first quarter for a key forward in my eyes. And in fairness those 2 scoring shots were from difficult angles.

But yes, faded as the game went on. But i think Harris Andrew really tightened up because he was certainly playing far too loose in that first quarter.

2 behinds mate, let's not oversell it with 'scoring shots'.

Thought he was slightly better than previous weeks, but still exceptionally poor by what we should be expecting of him.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

17 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

7 disposal, 4 marks and yes 2 scoring shots is certainly busy first quarter for a key forward in my eyes. And in fairness those 2 scoring shots were from difficult angles.

But yes, faded as the game went on. But i think Harris Andrew really tightened up because he was certainly playing far too loose in that first quarter.

Thanks for those pertinent stats Dazzle. I was at the game and thought BBB played an excellent first quarter. Particularly as Brisbane was pressing hard at the time.

In fact, I thought he was in for a big one but, as you say, he faded.

Not all posters understand that stats must be read and considered within a context.

[Young Blood 2,575]

I'm in the camp that BBB had an average, disappointing game but not worth dropping.

He's never been a great standing contested mark. Struggles to get his hands free or use his body/arms to wrestle the opposition out of position for the grab (Tmac is much better at this). Too many times he got caught in this predicament on Thursday where Andrews easily beat him, at times throwing him aside. You could tell Ben was really frustrated with himself in the contest. I think its the strength in this hips/lower body he's lacking. 

Ben needs space in front of him and at least some momentum to be effective. A lot of forwards do. I would like to see him be a little more defensive in these positions to simply aim to bring the ball to ground to our advantage. I thought too many times he was caught out and didn't half the contest where he could have.

He's still our best deep forward option when he can get in space with outstretched arms. He also gives Bayley space and the lesser backman to create more scoring opportunities.

[dazzledavey36 54,244]

18 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

2 behinds mate, let's not oversell it with 'scoring shots'.

Thought he was slightly better than previous weeks, but still exceptionally poor by what we should be expecting of him.

I think it was still a good indication that he had 2 early shots on goal in the first quarter.

 The 4 marks in the first quarter alone and 7 disposal still a great starting point which is why I think he was certainly busy in that quarter alone.

Finished with 1.3 for the night which to me looks like he's slowly getting back into the groove of hopefully hitting the scoreboard better in the next few week.

2 weeks in a row now he's had 4 shots on goal in each. His form is reminding me of last year when he came back into the side. Just slowly starting to get back into the swing of things.

 

[Nascent 9,105]

Gawn listed as 1-2 weeks away on the clubs injury list so barring an unknown injury I would imagine it will be no change.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I think it was still a good indication that he had 2 early shots on goal in the first quarter.

 The 4 marks in the first quarter alone and 7 disposal still a great starting point which is why I think he was certainly busy in that quarter alone.

Finished with 1.3 for the night which to me looks like he's slowly getting back into the groove of hopefully hitting the scoreboard better in the next few week.

2 weeks in a row now he's had 4 shots on goal in each. His form is reminding me of last year when he came back into the side. Just slowly starting to get back into the swing of things.

 

Definitely improving, but it's a low bar that has been set the last month or so.

Had 2 effective disposals against the Lions. 2.

I think we just have different definitions of busy. I more treat it as impact on the game, whereas it seems yourself and SWYL class it as trying to do lots. That's footy I suppose.

[monoccular 17,413]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

True, we would have been 2 points further behind.

What a simplistic "analysis" - Langdon didn't score at all, Oliver scored only 1 behind,  so would their absence make no difference.

BBB is not in form, but he did a lot of work up the ground throughout the game not all of which appears on standard publicly accessible stat sheets.  

Yes, his missed shots at goal were incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

12 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Gawn listed as 1-2 weeks away on the clubs injury list so barring an unknown injury I would imagine it will be no change.

I just hope he is not rushed back prematurely - even if he does need to miss the Geelong game, which I am sure we all hope he won't, his importance at the business end of the season is immeasurable.

[roy11 3,831]

Was happy with an improved performance from BBB but still  room for improvement. 

Hopefully kick starting this week against the Crows.

 

[Ham 741]

If Max were to come back in, B.Brown is who I'd be dropping.

He arguably hasn't been worthy of our best 22 for at least half of the games this season and unlike others, hasn't been dropped/moved around, they've persisted to absolutely no avail.  

[John Demonic 5,747]

I can only see BBB coming out of the side, if he slaps a team mate with a celery stick at a vegan cafe

[Demon17 5,186]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I will keep watching the games and you read the stats sheets

We could well have been a lot further behind without Brown’s work in the 1st Quarter. 
But you believe whatever you want 

I'm with you on this SWYL.

Brown was a presence around the ground and this debate reminded me of why I like G Lyon as a commentator.

He progosticates on what he sees in front of him, with insight as a former great player with a feel for the game,  as opposed to say David King who seems to trawl through stats to then come up with a point to make or a theory. Make the facts fit the reality maybe?.

No better was this illustrated than the Cats V Tiges call on Saturday, when Lyon smartly called for what the Tiges needed to stem the bleeding, including the move of Baker into the thick of it, and behold it and a few other moves were made by Hardwick.  Not a stat quoted by Lyon, just this was how he saw the game strategically.

I'm not comparing you SWYL to Lyon btw, just noting similiar appoaches in these instances.

Admittedly I'm a big fan of Brown after the fianls series last year, and I think he gets a bad wrap when the ball is dropped on his head and he has trouble. 

He stays in for the medium term IMO

[dazzledavey36 54,244]

49 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Definitely improving, but it's a low bar that has been set the last month or so.

Had 2 effective disposals against the Lions. 2.

I think we just have different definitions of busy. I more treat it as impact on the game, whereas it seems yourself and SWYL class it as trying to do lots. That's footy I suppose.

Jeez you're hard task marker Nev.

If you're judging key forwards on effective disposal as main key criteria then I must be doing it all wrong.

Currently working part time in the development league club and I know the coaching staff and AFL recruiters value far more bigger key stat indicators for young  developing key forwards such as work rate being the top priority, and the number of contest they're able to get to and from.

Coaches will absolutely put a premium on that if your work rate is high the goals will eventually come. I've seen a big Improvement in his work rate and I think eventually the goals will come.

Prior to the Pies game I thought his work rate had been poor and hadn't McDonald not been injured I reckon he was close to being dropped.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Jeez you're hard task marker Nev.

If you're judging key forwards on effective disposal as main key criteria then I must be doing it all wrong.

Currently working part time in the development league club and I know the coaching staff and AFL recruiters value far more bigger key stat indicators for young  developing key forwards such as work rate being the top priority, and the number of contest they're able to get to and from.

Coaches will absolutely put a premium on that if your work rate is high the goals will eventually come. I've seen a big Improvement in his work rate and I think eventually the goals will come.

Prior to the Pies game I thought his work rate had been poor and hadn't McDonald not been injured I reckon he was close to being dropped.

Nowhere did I say that was my main criteria mate.

But if the bloke is only going to have 11 touches and 1 goal for the game then I would expect more impact than 2 effective disposals as part of it.

Ben Brown is WELL past the stage where we should be judging him on 'improvement'. This is a 29 year old former Coleman winner on a sizeable contract who hasn't performed for the majority of the year, not a 20 year old still learning the game and growing into his frame.

Geez he's getting let off lightly this year. It's bizarre.

[The heart beats true 18,109]

Browns contract isn’t sizeable. It’s about par for what it should be for a bloke whose played as many games as he has, and definitely unders for a Coleman medallist.

I thought Ben looked great early. He was very mobile and giving the Lions defenders something to think about. At the ground I thought his energy was brilliant. It’s not his fault that our game style gives him difficult shots - in fact it’s part of the reason we got him and he’s in the team. 

I watched the replay and saw 3 separate players point down to teammates to indicate to them not to put the ball in the air after the first quarter. It’s a team sport, Ben definitely played his part on Thursday. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

26 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Browns contract isn’t sizeable. It’s about par for what it should be for a bloke whose played as many games as he has, and definitely unders for a Coleman medallist.

How much is he on then exactly?

Edited June 27, 2022 by Lord Nev

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:56 AM, sisso said:

Playing 4 small forwards is an interesting tactic, I think Bedford and Kozzie will form a lethal combination if allowed to play together for an extended period. But can we go that small every week, especially against sides like Freo and Geelong with a lot of tall intercept defenders? I am not sure.
 

This week however, no change.

Our best result/match for the season and the GF and we are wondering if it's workable or not? 

The resting CHF of two of Gawn/Weid/LJ plus BBB at FF is plenty tall enough IMV,  provided the way we bring it inside 50 is smart more often than not eg;  not biased towards bombing or dropping the ball on top of the oppo's talls.

We don't always have to score via the big men getting their hands on it as we saw with some of the ground level goals on Thurs night from the likes of Kozzy, Bedford, Harmes & Spargoat.