Concerns With Our Small Forwards

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

Charlie Spargo: 13 games and 5 goals  

Alex Neal Bullen: 12 games and 2 goals.

I've left Kozzie Pickett out because he's at least kicked 16 goals this year from 12 games. He's doing his job as a small forward even though I feel like he's lacked his usual x factor and zip compared to last year. His pressure is still fantastic. 

But, between Spargo and Nibbler they've combined for a total of 7 goals....

In comparison, Carltons more inexperienced small forwards are; 

Matthew Owies: 12 games and 11 goals

Corey Durdin: 11 games and 10 goals 25 

These two alone have combined for 21 goals alone.

We're just not getting enough out of Spargo and ANB. They run hard and link up well at times but the amount of times we bomb it forward to then not have a small forward at the drop of a contest is infuriating because defender are now just waltzing out of our forward half way too easily.

Can't just leave it up to Kozzie to do all of the front half attacking. I'm not even sure if Bedford is even the answer. Poor kid actually plays well one week and then gets dropped the next week for the sub vest. So it's obvious coaching staff aren't willing to give him a run of games to at least show what he's capable of.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by dazzledavey36

[Bates Mate 4,510]

Anb's inability to convert set shots is an issue

Edited June 13, 2022 by Bates Mate
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[Gouga 570]

I have Spargo ahead of ANB, but need more goals from both. They are only doing half their job at the moment. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Gouga

[Redlagged 813]

2 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:

Anb's inability to convert set shots is an issue

He has been poor lately. Disappointing. Thought he has progressed to an A grade player. 

[adonski 12,427]

Spargo & ANB play like small midfielders. If we want another genuine small to actually put the ball in between the big sticks, it's Bedford.

Edited June 13, 2022 by adonski

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

Add Harmes and Sparrow who both spend time there and haven’t done well but Spargo is normally there for kicks into 50 and pressure more than goals I reckon. Nibbler fumbled so much today it was laughable, Harmes not much better and sparrow wasn’t far off it either.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,963]

The whole forward line is dysfunctional. But our smalls are Kosi aside not applying enough tackling pressure. The ball comes out of our forward line far too easy

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,778]

Concerns With Our ... Forwards

[layzie 33,991]

Think it's a fair point, putting a lot of attention on the tall forwards not getting it done but we simply aren't getting enough out of these guys. Just give us a goal or two a game and things are very different.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

AnB is a real concern. His disposal has dropped off significantly and he just can’t convert at all.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

The consistency with which we kick it long to the forwards in the air is clearly the game plan. It’s in order for stoppages in the forward half (and set up behind the ball). If our big blokes don’t compete in the air the small guys have got no hope. Tom McDonald is a massive out for our crumbing players.

The other issue is that, possibly because of training loads, it’s currently 95% of the way we move the ball forward. It’s way too predictable - meaning it’s easy for defenders to drop off and kill us in the air.

What makes this more interesting is that Goodwin said Weid wasn’t in the team because he wasn’t playing a ‘big man’s game’. This very much suggests that the club wants competitive marking talls as the targets (not lead up forwards) and isn’t going to adjust that plan.

So the small guys aren’t getting much of a look because of the way we play, and the lack of aerial competitiveness from their team mates.

[Fork 'em 6,991]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

 The other issue is that, possibly because of training loads, it’s currently 95% of the way we move the ball forward. It’s way too predictable - meaning it’s easy for defenders to drop off and kill us in the air.

Going forward we're doing exactly what we love the opposition to do.
Move the ball slowly and kick long bombs to a pack into the forward 50.
 
Reckon with all the focus on defence we've lost our attacking flair.
 Always safety 1st.

Our small forwards are so defensive they've forgotten they're actually forwards.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Dockett 32 1,239]

I really don’t know why Weid, Smith or M. Brown are on our list. We might dream they will come good, but in reality we know what we are going to get.  

Tommy Mac is an old battling warrior too.

Those involved in delivering a balanced and dangerous forward set up haven’t got it right IMO.

Not only have we fallen in a somewhat predictable hole this year, what do we do with these blokes next year and beyond?

But we love slow midgets and use most of our draft picks on them.

 

 

[Pates 9,660]

The small forwards and our lack of pressure/conversion from inside 50s has become a massive issue for us. The coaches have persisted with the group that got us to a premiership, fair enough, but when things aren’t working you can’t keep doing the same thing with the same personal.

I really admire ANB for the way he forced his way back into the team and became an important part of our premiership team, but he has really been off for the first half of the season. I have been putting in Bedford for ANB for a few weeks now to shake up that group, I now think is HAS to happen. He can’t keep riding on the coat tails of his premiership year, new year clean slate and for me he’s been mostly average or poor. 

Spargo has been off as well, he used to make things happen with his kicks inside 50. I remember one of the coaches saying start of 2021 that he was the one they wanted to have the ball when entering the 50. There’s two things I would say about that for this year, firstly it’s not happening as often as it did last year and secondly he hasn’t been anywhere near as efficient or damaging as he was last year. I don’t think you can change the mix so strongly as to drop both Spargo and ANB but Charlie is also on thin ice. 

I’m a footy nuffie so I have very little to go off from an experience point of view, but I feel like there needs to be a shake up of the whole line which could include throwing different players in there. This could look like a number of things including giving Petracca, Oliver, and Viney more time in the forward line, or doing something radical like throwing Petty forward or giving JvR some game time. Hell give Majak Daw a crack at some matches and rotate him, Max, and Jacko through there. 

There’s no spark, we have the bye to find it. 

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

2 hours ago, Pates said:

The small forwards and our lack of pressure/conversion from inside 50s has become a massive issue for us. The coaches have persisted with the group that got us to a premiership, fair enough, but when things aren’t working you can’t keep doing the same thing with the same personal.

I really admire ANB for the way he forced his way back into the team and became an important part of our premiership team, but he has really been off for the first half of the season. I have been putting in Bedford for ANB for a few weeks now to shake up that group, I now think is HAS to happen. He can’t keep riding on the coat tails of his premiership year, new year clean slate and for me he’s been mostly average or poor. 

Spargo has been off as well, he used to make things happen with his kicks inside 50. I remember one of the coaches saying start of 2021 that he was the one they wanted to have the ball when entering the 50. There’s two things I would say about that for this year, firstly it’s not happening as often as it did last year and secondly he hasn’t been anywhere near as efficient or damaging as he was last year. I don’t think you can change the mix so strongly as to drop both Spargo and ANB but Charlie is also on thin ice. 

I’m a footy nuffie so I have very little to go off from an experience point of view, but I feel like there needs to be a shake up of the whole line which could include throwing different players in there. This could look like a number of things including giving Petracca, Oliver, and Viney more time in the forward line, or doing something radical like throwing Petty forward or giving JvR some game time. Hell give Majak Daw a crack at some matches and rotate him, Max, and Jacko through there. 

There’s no spark, we have the bye to find it. 

Spot on. You can’t keep doing the same when the same isn’t working

[spirit of norm smith 16,587]

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Charlie Spargo: 13 games and 5 goals  

Alex Neal Bullen: 12 games and 2 goals.

I've left Kozzie Pickett out because he's at least kicked 16 goals this year from 12 games. He's doing his job as a small forward even though I feel like he's lacked his usual x factor and zip compared to last year. His pressure is still fantastic. 

But, between Spargo and Nibbler they've combined for a total of 7 goals....

In comparison, Carltons more inexperienced small forwards are; 

Matthew Owies: 12 games and 11 goals

Corey Durdin: 11 games and 10 goals 25 

These two alone have combined for 21 goals alone.

We're just not getting enough out of Spargo and ANB. They run hard and link up well at times but the amount of times we bomb it forward to then not have a small forward at the drop of a contest is infuriating because defender are now just waltzing out of our forward half way too easily.

Can't just leave it up to Kozzie to do all of the front half attacking. I'm not even sure if Bedford is even the answer. Poor kid actually plays well one week and then gets dropped the next week for the sub vest. So it's obvious coaching staff aren't willing to give him a run of games to at least show what he's capable of.

 

Agree. I wrote this last week and have updated it.   

Certainly need improvement in conversion and connection with our tall forwards.  And if they’re not marking it, they should at least contest to bring it to ground. Bbb and Weid have been very poor across. Tmcd is strongly and more contested in his marking.  
 

Whilst not focussed upon, our output and goals from small forwards also needs to be addressed.  
Pickett 16 goals (6behinds) 12 games 
Spargo 5 goals (8 bdhinds) 13 games
ANB 2 goals (10behinds)  12 games
total 23.24

Kozzy should be a 40+ goalkicker.  He’s been very good in patches but needs to stay in forward 50 and occasionally venture upfield. His danger is within scoring distance.  Spargo and ANB contribute indirectly but need to be much more dangerous and score themselves.  Often inside 30 metres they look to handball rather than score.  ANB has missed very gettable goals and looks devoid of confidence.

I’d like to see Bedford given a real run and not as a full time medi sub. Bedford and Kozzzy inside 50 would be good to have for 3-4 weeks.

At the moment Cameron (31)Bailey (27)McCarthy (20) have amassed 78 goals for the Lions. That’s a fair differential in scoring power!!!

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

53 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree. I wrote this last week and have updated it.   

Certainly need improvement in conversion and connection with our tall forwards.  And if they’re not marking it, they should at least contest to bring it to ground. Bbb and Weid have been very poor across. Tmcd is strongly and more contested in his marking.  
 

Whilst not focussed upon, our output and goals from small forwards also needs to be addressed.  
Pickett 16 goals (6behinds) 12 games 
Spargo 5 goals (8 bdhinds) 13 games
ANB 2 goals (10behinds)  12 games
total 23.24

Kozzy should be a 40+ goalkicker.  He’s been very good in patches but needs to stay in forward 50 and occasionally venture upfield. His danger is within scoring distance.  Spargo and ANB contribute indirectly but need to be much more dangerous and score themselves.  Often inside 30 metres they look to handball rather than score.  ANB has missed very gettable goals and looks devoid of confidence.

I’d like to see Bedford given a real run and not as a full time medi sub. Bedford and Kozzzy inside 50 would be good to have for 3-4 weeks.

At the moment Cameron (31)Bailey (27)McCarthy (20) have amassed 78 goals for the Lions. That’s a fair differential in scoring power!!!

Unfortunately I cannot see the likes of Spargo and ANB ever be this productive in terms of being solid goalkickers.

[Pates 9,660]

Does anyone else feel that Nibbler in particular has been given time to find his form based off his form last season? The match selection committee has really shown a lack of bite to cut players who are down on form. The fact we have been “getting the job done” for the first 10 weeks has masked more than a few players who have been coasting for the most part. 

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

1 minute ago, Pates said:

Does anyone else feel that Nibbler in particular has been given time to find his form based off his form last season? The match selection committee has really shown a lack of bite to cut players who are down on form. The fact we have been “getting the job done” for the first 10 weeks has masked more than a few players who have been coasting for the most part. 

Yes.

Nibbler isn't the only one. The likes of Sparrow who's killing our momentum surge by just coughing up the ball so easily.

If they're willing to drop guys like Tom McDonald and Trent Rivers, then Sparrow and ANB form also cannot be ignored.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes.

Nibbler isn't the only one. The likes of Sparrow who's killing our momentum surge by just coughing up the ball so easily.

If they're willing to drop guys like Tom McDonald and Trent Rivers, then Sparrow and ANB form also cannot be ignored.

Could almost add Spargo to this .

[Pates 9,660]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes.

Nibbler isn't the only one. The likes of Sparrow who's killing our momentum surge by just coughing up the ball so easily.

If they're willing to drop guys like Tom McDonald and Trent Rivers, then Sparrow and ANB form also cannot be ignored.

Yep I’ve been thinking for a while that Sparrow needs a run at Casey. There has been this belief amongst the coaching staff and selection committee that it will just come good. It hasn’t, there are players out of form that need to be dropped. 

[poita 3,902]

Spargo and Neal-Bullen have to be at 70%+ goalkicking accuracy given their roles. Neal-Bullen's inaccuracy is a real concern given where he is taking shots from. His workrate is still excellent, and I'm sure this is why he is still in the team.

Spargo is playing far too wide and is getting lost on the HFF. He needs to be more central so that he can deliver the ball inside 50 to a wider area. He is also letting his opponents be used far too often coming out of defence.

Pickett needs to spend way more time at the feet of Ben Brown. He is spending a lot of time where the ball isn't at present.

I couldn't tell you what Sparrow's role is other than to delay the movement of the ball into the forward 50. He needs a lengthy spell at Casey to recalibrate.

[DemonicFinalFantasy 237]

Our slow entries into F50 are just so predictable (bombing) that the opposition congestion makes it near on impossible for small fwds to break free. It seemed in the first qtr (vs Cwood) that we were delivering the ball flatter to our fwds, or at least trying, but after half time, reverted back to lobbing it in again.

I admit I know nought about tactics and strategy, but if the fwdline is congested I'd like to see more set shots from near the 50 arc, as we do have some capable long kicks in the team.

Also, if we are expecting 5 or 6 goal run-ons every match in the 3rd or 4th qtr, we will remain disappointed.

While I'm giving my tuppence worth, I'm not a great fan of multiple player in's either (unless essential), especially if they are dropped back to the two's the following week becoz they didn't gel as well as expected. Goody would have been "dropped" time and time again prior to 2021 if it applied to coaches.

[Tracca 853]

15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Charlie Spargo: 13 games and 5 goals  

Alex Neal Bullen: 12 games and 2 goals.

I've left Kozzie Pickett out because he's at least kicked 16 goals this year from 12 games. He's doing his job as a small forward even though I feel like he's lacked his usual x factor and zip compared to last year. His pressure is still fantastic. 

But, between Spargo and Nibbler they've combined for a total of 7 goals....

In comparison, Carltons more inexperienced small forwards are; 

Matthew Owies: 12 games and 11 goals

Corey Durdin: 11 games and 10 goals 25 

These two alone have combined for 21 goals alone.

We're just not getting enough out of Spargo and ANB. They run hard and link up well at times but the amount of times we bomb it forward to then not have a small forward at the drop of a contest is infuriating because defender are now just waltzing out of our forward half way too easily.

Can't just leave it up to Kozzie to do all of the front half attacking. I'm not even sure if Bedford is even the answer. Poor kid actually plays well one week and then gets dropped the next week for the sub vest. So it's obvious coaching staff aren't willing to give him a run of games to at least show what he's capable of.

 

I agree with you. i love bedfords run and carry, its exciting and you dont know what you are going to get when hes around the ball. I think ANB needs a spell and put bedford in place.

[Young Blood 2,634]

I thought the forwardline pressure was terrific in the first half yesterday. As good as I've seen this season.

The problem we're having is with ball movement. We need to do what opposition teams are doing to us. So many times we're looking to move the ball wide, stringing 15-20m kicks, this produces slower transition and eventually result in kicking in long (the only real option when we set up this way most of the time). 

What Collingwood, Sydney and Freo did so well is moving with the ball in hand. Starting from the half back they initiate their ball transition with a short handball or kick to someone that already has someone else running ready to receive through the corridor. Its proactive and when you run in numbers it means even if you turn it over you have a greater likelihood of winning the ball back. Its something other teams earlier this year tried but weren't good enough to execute.

To me its less about the forward line under performing and more about how to transition the ball from stoppages and turnovers. So many times yesterday I thought guys like Petracca would win a ball from stoppages and look to run and kick the ball long. This can be great if its in our front half to catch out the opposition back out of position. However by moving the ball by hand/short with pace beginning in the back half running in numbers it gives the forwards more time to structure up to lead and get into dangerous positions. It drags opposition up to the ball instead of zoning off and creates better more accurate/dangerous inside 50 disposal.