POSTGAME: Community Series vs Carlton

[titan_uranus 23,131]

7 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

 

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Good to hear the players and club owning it, learning from it and hopefully moving on regardless of how cooked it was on the night

Agree. The full quote from Oliver is even better:

“We probably didn’t realise how harsh it was going to be,” he said.

“But in reality it’s fair because the umpire isn’t going to change their decision and most of the time they’re right anyway. So we’ll stop it.

“We had a pretty big chat about it. Goody (coach Simon Goodwin) sat us down, Gawny (captain Max Gawn) sat us down for 5-10 minutes.

“It’s not on. It’s not a good look for the game in general, talking back to the umpires. They’ve got a hard enough job doing what they do anyway, they don’t want the players chirping up and having a go at them so we’ll stamp it out pretty quick.”

Oliver gave away a time wasting penalty against Carlton and said giving the ball back quickly would be something he would need to focus on.

“I’m pretty bad at that. Troy Chaplin, our backline coach, he knows I do that a lot and he gets pretty angry at me when I do it at training and try to hold the ball up,” he said.

“That might hurt me a bit, but you’ve got to adapt and change and it’s like anything, every year there’s new rules that come out.”

I hope that second line is the message Goodwin and Gawn were sending - the umpire's not going to change their mind so it's a pointless exercise. Ask them what the decision was if you don't understand, perhaps, but don't get upset, because it literally cannot help but now can harm significantly.

[Willmoy1947 3,849]

Got this straight, so all these frees were justified and Carlton didn't do any.

Also Carlton were not worded up before the game about any emphasis being placed on umpire negativity. So the maggots just went MFC because they were naughty and Carlton were good 👍.

[Chook 14,647]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

 

I hope that second line is the message Goodwin and Gawn were sending - the umpire's not going to change their mind so it's a pointless exercise. Ask them what the decision was if you don't understand, perhaps, but don't get upset, because it literally cannot help but now can harm significantly.

I can see it now. A player yells at the umpire (because it's loud out there in a close game with a packed MCG). The umpire mishears/doesn't hear, but sees the player's yelling something…and pays 50 against him.

[WalkingCivilWar 34,770]

On 3/4/2022 at 12:22 AM, 4_Kent_Watts said:

I don't want him in a Melbourne jumper.

 

4 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

I know he's one of your faves but if Jayden has to play as a Defender, our  Backline is in trouble. His benefit is his attacking running so I reckon he's at the wrong end of the ground. 

The eye-roll was for the first quote (above). It was either that, or tear you a new one. I was feeling magnanimous, hence the relatively harmless eye-roll. 😉
Totes different from the second quote, which doesn’t deserve an eye-roll but may attract a sigh. Not a deep sigh. A shallow one should suffice. And only because you imply that I took umbrage at your comment coz it was Jayden in question. I wouldn’t want that said about ANY of our players. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,785]

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

Got this straight, so all these frees were justified and Carlton didn't do any.

Also Carlton were not worded up before the game about any emphasis being placed on umpire negativity. So the maggots just went MFC because they were naughty and Carlton were good 👍.

Every club was worded up about it just like they are every preseason with new rule changes/interpretations

[Jaded No More 59,764]

I do agree that an umpire will never change their mind so why bother arguing. 
But sometimes I think asking a question if you really are confused by an umpire’s interpretation of a free, could help you avoid doing it again. Or perhaps pointing out to an umpire that your opponent is constantly pushing you out or holding you etc so the umpire is more hyper aware. 
Umpires are just people. They deserve respect like any person does, but they’re also not beyond criticism or reproach. 

[adonski 9,408]

Replace the umpires with drones

[jnrmac 19,481]

7 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

I know he's one of your faves but if Jayden has to play as a Defender, our  Backline is in trouble. His benefit is his attacking running so I reckon he's at the wrong end of the ground. 

Our backline wasn't in trouble up to 20 last year when he got injured.

 

Swing and a miss from you

[dworship 3,342]

13 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

"It's a fair cop"

"You're right, it was too high"

"Well, you're in the best position to see"

"Good decision. I was thinking I'd run too far"

That's like a foreign language to the players!

Good one Mazer, Bowey during the Carlton game looks at the Ump and sqeals  "what about in the back!"

Maysie should have said: "no Bowser, I shoved Hawkins in the back and he cannoned into you". "Oh, and stop being a whiny little.."

[picket fence 15,735]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:16 AM, godees said:

WTF.
Flat out wrong to say Smith has no pace. He is one of our fastest (behind Hunt) and his closing speed to spoil etc is one of his strengths. 
He has many weaknesses but it is ridiculous to say he doesn’t have pace.

But He is a FORWARD IMV

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:31 PM, leave it to deever said:

I have never racially abused a maggot or an umpire in my life and I doubt there would hardly be anyone on this site that endorses racism. In fact despite the negative comments re players at times, I'm often buoyed by the fact of how racism is rightfully condemned here.

PS 1975 was a great year.

Born To Run - Bruce Springsteen
  Bohemian Rhapsody - Queen
   Walk This Way - Aerosmith
 .Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd
 I'm Not In Love - 10cc

 

Sorry mate. I wasn't accusing you of racism. What I was trying to respond to was the idea that because something is 'traditional' then that somehow makes it OK for all time. Values were different 50 years ago and I'm glad values have changed. BTW I like your taste is music. Never a huge Queen fan but love both 'A Night at the Opera' & 'A Day at the Races' albums. 'Wish You Were Here' a great album.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:44 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

What a crap post.

Late last year? He kicked 3 goals in the preliminary final against Geelong and and had a dozen score assists.

He kicked 2 goals in the first final against Brisbane and provided huge amount of forward line pressure.

The final game of the season he had 14 disposals, 4 tackles and kicked 3 goals. He kicked a really important goal in the last term to get our resurgence going for that win.

Not only was he he doing some incredible defensive work off the ball but he was still hitting the scoreboard.

I also found the whole impacting the scoreboard comment boring.. he kicked 40 goals last year playing as a 19 year old small forward in just his 2nd year of AFL. Some of you are seriously outdated with writing kozzie off so early.

His upside is scary.

Brilliant response. I appreciated your use of actual facts using real data. I can't believe the amount of negative commentary on this site about individual players based on one practice match.

Maybe we should drop Petracca & Oliver. Our midfield was smashed against Carlton (North Melbourne doesn't count because that's superceded form) and their Carlton performances show they're out of touch and could use a spell at Casey to freshen up (even through Casey don't play their 1st match until 27th March)...   

[D4Life 2,307]

18 minutes ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Brilliant response. I appreciated your use of actual facts using real data. I can't believe the amount of negative commentary on this site about individual players based on one practice match.

Maybe we should drop Petracca & Oliver. Our midfield was smashed against Carlton (North Melbourne doesn't count because that's superceded form) and their Carlton performances show they're out of touch and could use a spell at Casey to freshen up (even through Casey don't play their 1st match until 27th March)...   

Agree 100%.

Small forward or half forward positions, rarely have high stats and when you look at best players have quiet games eg. Papley, Cameron. 
 

Kossie still keeps pressure up on his quiet possession days. I don’t think the umpires do him many favours, that missed head high tackle in GF as an example, if he got treated like Selwood would get 3-5 head high frees a week.

 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

10 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Agree 100%.

Small forward or half forward positions, rarely have high stats and when you look at best players have quiet games eg. Papley, Cameron. 
 

Kossie still keeps pressure up on his quiet possession days. I don’t think the umpires do him many favours, that missed head high tackle in GF as an example, if he got treated like Selwood would get 3-5 head high frees a week.

 

I'd argue Kossie doesn't do himself any favours because he arguably does play for free kicks or at least puts himself in positions that the umpires could interpret it that way. Similarly TMac appeals for ridiculous free kicks all the time which likely works against him when there are legitimate ones. Because Viney plays the game hard, umpires generally appear to award soft frees for hign tackles against him (last year's GF) and don't reward him for similar tackles against him. I guess we'd all just like to see consistency.

I did like the fact that in the GF when Weightman tried to milk a free against Kossie just before Brayshaw's 3rd Quarter goal the umpires didn't fall for it (unlike numerous instances in the Elimination Final against Essendon). Selwood of course is notorious for getting frees for high tackles when he causes them by lifting his arms. To their credit, I don't think the umpires are falling for that anywhere near as much as they used to. I'd like to see frees paid more often against players that are clearly staging.

[leave it to deever 16,552]

8 hours ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Sorry mate. I wasn't accusing you of racism. What I was trying to respond to was the idea that because something is 'traditional' then that somehow makes it OK for all time. Values were different 50 years ago and I'm glad values have changed. BTW I like your taste is music. Never a huge Queen fan but love both 'A Night at the Opera' & 'A Day at the Races' albums. 'Wish You Were Here' a great album.

No worries. I was just being facetious. All good.

Enjoy the opening game. Can't wait.

[4_Kent_Watts 850]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:03 PM, jnrmac said:

Our backline wasn't in trouble up to 20 last year when he got injured.

 

Swing and a miss from you

We had 4 or 5 guys out to give Hunt a game last week as a Defender. How many of those who were out need to be out for him to get a game this year. If there's room for him then we've got to have plenty of injuries. With May, Salem, Rivers and Petty who's spot would he take if they're fit. I'd say None. And I'll say it to the cows come home, Not as a Defender. Happy for him to prove me wrong. 

[4_Kent_Watts 850]

On 3/7/2022 at 6:14 PM, WalkingCivilWar said:

 

The eye-roll was for the first quote (above). It was either that, or tear you a new one. I was feeling magnanimous, hence the relatively harmless eye-roll. 😉
Totes different from the second quote, which doesn’t deserve an eye-roll but may attract a sigh. Not a deep sigh. A shallow one should suffice. And only because you imply that I took umbrage at your comment coz it was Jayden in question. I wouldn’t want that said about ANY of our players. 

Totally understandable and your opinion is Fully justified. The I don't want him in a Melbourne jumper was only to a point made by another poster saying that is what you get from him in relation to him turning it over after running out of the Backline. I believe he could be a decent player as his speed should be utilised on a wing or anywhere forward of  centre. 

[jnrmac 19,481]

8 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

We had 4 or 5 guys out to give Hunt a game last week as a Defender. How many of those who were out need to be out for him to get a game this year. If there's room for him then we've got to have plenty of injuries. With May, Salem, Rivers and Petty who's spot would he take if they're fit. I'd say None. And I'll say it to the cows come home, Not as a Defender. Happy for him to prove me wrong. 

He has already proved you wrong. He played until round 20 and we did OK.

[DeeZee 6,905]

I just watched the reply of this game as it just happened to be on foxtel and those 50 metre penalties plus a lack of intensity from our guys were the main difference.

one thing I noticed was how hard Kozzie and ANB work.

They do alot of unrewarded running just to put pressure on the opposition to try and cause  in turnovers .

Their value to the team us much more than goals alone.

Edited March 8, 2022 by DeeZee

[monoccular 16,592]

9 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

We had 4 or 5 guys out to give Hunt a game last week as a Defender. How many of those who were out need to be out for him to get a game this year. If there's room for him then we've got to have plenty of injuries. With May, Salem, Rivers and Petty who's spot would he take if they're fit. I'd say None. And I'll say it to the cows come home, Not as a Defender. Happy for him to prove me wrong. 

Firstly, I remain uncertain if Hunt is still in our best 22 as a defender (despite being there for 20+ rounds in 2021).

However Hunt played last week as a cog in a completely makeshift defence, so should his performance be assessed the same as if he were just one cog in the established defensive unit?

[rpfc 27,673]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Firstly, I remain uncertain if Hunt is still in our best 22 as a defender (despite being there for 20+ rounds in 2021).

However Hunt played last week as a cog in a completely makeshift defence, so should his performance be assessed the same as if he were just one cog in the established defensive unit?

No May, no Rivers, no Petty and, crucially, no Salem. 

Hunt is great depth but he can’t fix the above.

You can’t replace your best players, and when they aren’t there - it distorts the truth on those who remain.

[Josh 1,420]

"Then once he started watching the free kick replay on the scoreboard, he started laughing in my face and it was like, 'You're belittling me a bit! So then I paid the 50 for that."

 

 

Gee wiz. Not sure I agree with this

Edited March 9, 2022 by Josh

[dazzledavey36 49,738]

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

[Jaded No More 59,764]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

I suggest this umpire needs to grow a thicker skin. Players are allowed to question or laugh at a poor decision as a way to show frustration. It was a ridiculous free. 
If the umpire feels belittled by that, it says more about the umpire than the player. 

[TRIGON 4,719]

This potentially raises a future conundrum for the AFL. Would they, could they, ever dare to have an umpire officiate at the Grand Final if his/her name was B.Little ???