On 26/08/2022 at 05:09, Darkhorse72 said:

According to the "The West" today, Jackson agreed to terms months ago with Freo, though west coast are hopeful.  They'll need to come up with a good deal, not sure how they will do it without offloading value players to us other for a draft pick. 

U will find this occurs a lot but is all hush hush until the time is right to let all know. 

  On 26/08/2022 at 04:55, mauriesy said:

Ryder is 35. He's retired from the Saints, and why would we think he could be good for us?

When he was on the park, Ryder was very good. If we could get 15 games out of him, he's worth it.

But more than anything, I hate the idea of getting Grundy and his 5 year contract.

  On 26/08/2022 at 02:47, Little Goffy said:

I just spent a happy bit of time watching Isaac Keeler tapes on youtube.

I'm a lot less afraid of losing Jackson than I was.

Good set shots with bonus level outside 50, smart field kicking that doesn't overreach, high initiative, actively looks for teammates, and as a ruck-forward he gets handball receives on the run at half back and uses them effectively.

We're going to want to get a pick to make sure of him.

Much better looking than Jackson, too.

People have written comparisons to Paddy Ryder but when you add the run through the middle aspect he's actually a bit more like a lanky Adam Goodes, or, day I say it, a slightly more regular-human Luke Jackson.

My 'hot take' (as in, a statement not to be taken too seriously) is that if we lose Jackson our final trade and draft result will be Isaac Keeler with a top-10 draft pick (my guess is Gold Coast's pick 7 via Fremantle) as well as a competitive mid-age ruck-forward on moderate coin (or Grundy if Collingwood can be sucked into paying at least half his salary for lols) and probably still have a 2023 first round pick left over.

Oh as long as he’s better looking than Jacko FFS!

  On 25/08/2022 at 03:58, Garbo said:

Not sure if anyone saw the list in the HS this week of top 100 paid players we had by far the most and at the pointy end to. Got me thinking with Picket out of contract and Brayshaw just recently committing on big coin to, was losing Jackson or someone else on big money inevitable, unless players are willing to take big cuts to stay together.  When compared to cats our list looks very top heavy contract wise. If the figures are to be believed we simply can’t afford Jackson 700-800 and Pickett 600-700, along with all the role players who will be demanding more than minimum like spargo, sparrow, petty, Jordan, bedford and a host of resent picks in the vfl. We might still loose a few but perhaps keeping Jackson means we loose them all.

My take on this is definitely grains of salt.

If we are considering taking Grundy (and we have met with him) then we must have enough cap space to make it happen. So there are no concerns about a Jackson or Kozzy getting squeezed out.

 

My thoughts are that the way we have managed all this is loading contracts front or back, or by managing very flat contracts.

The long deals for Max, Viney, Truck, Salem, Fritsch, Clarry and Angus will likely all be to make sure it balances over the 5-6 year period. The are all contracted until they are between 31 and 34 years old. 

Petty and Spargo are contracted for 3 more years, and will be 25 when out of contract, ready for a big one perhaps.

There isn't really much else to balance.

Hunt and Jackson left out of contract this year. Kossie, ANB, Rivers and JJ are the only young/mid career players OOC next year.

https://demonland.com/forums/topic/51814-2022-list-and-contract-details/?do=findComment&comment=2196036

 

I think this year was the big risk year, with lots of OOC name players. Get through this and we're set up nicely for 3 years.

Edited August 26, 20222 yr by deanox

  On 26/08/2022 at 12:09, deanox said:

I think this year was the big risk year, with lots of OOC name players. Get through this and we're set up nicely for 3 years.

i think, back in mid-2021, 2022 and 2023 were the big risks with five genuine star or potential star players - petracca, brayshaw, jackson, oliver, pickett - out of contract across those two years

since then, we've locked the cream away, with the only two left of those five being the youngsters, jackson and pickett, who absolutely must be in demand from other sides

other players ooc at the end of 2023, in order of my perceived importance to our success over the next 3 years:

• may
• anb
• rivers
• jordon
• jvr
• howes
• amz
• mcvee
• deakyn smith
• chandler
• weideman

can't see the elder two at the top entertaining offers elsewhere and would, in all likelihood, be looking at three year deals at the max, while the next three should, hopefully, be key players for the rest of this decade, and the next few are likely role players and great depth to have

players ooc in 2024 in order of my perceived importance:

• lever (although i thought he signed an extension?)
• plugger mac
• sideshow bob
• bowey
• sparrow
• harmes
• laurie
• tomlinson

lever i thought signed an extension to take him thru to being a 30 or so year but as i think he'll be the next skipper i can't see him leaving, the elder statesmen will move to yearly contracts you'd think unless they retire, while the next three are the epitome of role players

one thing that i think it was montagna said that i actually agreed with is that clubs should pay their star players what they're worth, but role players can be found and developed into important but, ultimately, replaceable players

i would be shocked if any of the above two years of uncontracted players will be flight risks, with the exception of the two wa boys (rivers and jvr) and the sa ones (anb and sparrow), all of whom SHOULD be in high demand in their native states, either as key players (rivers and sparrow) or as providing key leadership and setting standards (anb), or potential in a hard to fill role (jvr)

tl; dr: we've signed away our best players, now it's time to lock in the leaders and the depth

Interesting that Sammy Weid played 1st ruck yesterday at Casey.  Maybe the club is testing out a ‘Silvagni’ style ruck/forward option as potential LJ replacement?  If he goes (no idea either way) maybe this is our backup plan? 

  On 27/08/2022 at 23:45, buck_nekkid said:

Interesting that Sammy Weid played 1st ruck yesterday at Casey.  Maybe the club is testing out a ‘Silvagni’ style ruck/forward option as potential LJ replacement?  If he goes (no idea either way) maybe this is our backup plan? 

Weid has played a few good games for Casey rucking/forward. He played a similar style to LJ, following up and distributing with a handball. Maybe he can be the third ruckman, if we lose LJ but get another.

  On 28/08/2022 at 00:05, Redleg said:

Weid has played a few good games for Casey rucking/forward. He played a similar style to LJ, following up and distributing with a handball. Maybe he can be the third ruckman, if we lose LJ but get another.

I actually think he can Mr. leg. 

  On 28/08/2022 at 03:24, old dee said:

I actually think he can Mr. leg. 

To compare Weid with LJ is absurd. Is Weid a bit more mobile than a lot of taller ruck men - yep 

That’s about where the comparison ends

He has no physical presence when rucking and gets pushed away from most contests - LJ doesn’t 

He can’t take marks around the ground particularly contested marks - LJ does 

He doesn’t scrap for the ball on the ground - LJ does

He doesn’t sprint ahead of his teammates to provide a link up - LJ does

Do I really need to go on 

I’m not having a go at Sam and I think he tried hard this week in a position that may suit more than KP but to say he is anything other than a faint shadow of LJ in a rucking sense is a big stretch 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:13, Sydee said:

To compare Weid with LJ is absurd. Is Weid a bit more mobile than a lot of taller ruck men - yep 

That’s about where the comparison ends

He has no physical presence when rucking and gets pushed away from most contests - LJ doesn’t 

He can’t take marks around the ground particularly contested marks - LJ does 

He doesn’t scrap for the ball on the ground - LJ does

He doesn’t sprint ahead of his teammates to provide a link up - LJ does

Do I really need to go on 

I’m not having a go at Sam and I think he tried hard this week in a position that may suit more than KP but to say he is anything other than a faint shadow of LJ in a rucking sense is a big stretch 

I am not talking about him being better than LJ but if no LJ in 2023 he can fill the spot IMO. I might add LJ has had a number of ordinary games this year. 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:20, old dee said:

I am not talking about him being better than LJ but if no LJ in 2023 he can fill the spot IMO. I might add LJ has had a number of ordinary games this year. 

If Weid is our second or heaven forbid first ruck next year we are really going backwards big time 

 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:28, Sydee said:

If Weid is our second or heaven forbid first ruck next year we are really going backwards big time 

 

If Gawn is injured, you can’t replace your best players and we are going to struggle. Having a great replacement for Gawn is such a waste of investment. Someone needs to be first ruck and surely the 6 time AA ruckman will be that.

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:28, Sydee said:

If Weid is our second or heaven forbid first ruck next year we are really going backwards big time 

 

So if Jackson goes who do you play in that position? 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:28, Sydee said:

If Weid is our second or heaven forbid first ruck next year we are really going backwards big time 

 

OD was not comparing him to LJ nor was I.

I said he might be ok as a THIRD ruckman, if we got another and LJ left.

Didn’t Weid ruck for us this year when Max and LJ were out and we won?

No one is suggesting Weid as anything other than a third ruckman/forward if the need arises.

 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:46, rpfc said:

If Gawn is injured, you can’t replace your best players and we are going to struggle. Having a great replacement for Gawn is such a waste of investment. Someone needs to be first ruck and surely the 6 time AA ruckman will be that.

So you would disagree with bringing in another good ruckman, if LJ leaves, as a waste of investment, even though it could allow Max to play longer and be fresher for finals?

I think Goldstein or Ryder makes the most sense. We are in the window so we need a backup who is AFL standard straight away. 

  On 28/08/2022 at 04:55, old dee said:

So if Jackson goes who do you play in that position? 

anyone left => 200cm

oh, wait.....

  On 28/08/2022 at 05:34, Fat Tony said:

I think Goldstein or Ryder makes the most sense. We are in the window so we need a backup who is AFL standard straight away. 

Goldy will stay with Clarko and Ryder is a continually injured, retired 35 year old.

  On 28/08/2022 at 05:29, Redleg said:

So you would disagree with bringing in another good ruckman, if LJ leaves, as a waste of investment, even though it could allow Max to play longer and be fresher for finals?

I would avoid doubling down on a ruck position, yes.

  On 28/08/2022 at 07:48, mo64 said:

So who conducted the medical on Grundy's bung ankle, Goody or Max?

He was wearing ugg boots to hide the evidence I'm told 

I am more bullish on the Gawndy duo than most it seems...provided we aren't parting ways with a 1st rounder

As big a talent as Jackson is, he still gives us heaps of nothing games (not a knock on him given his age, just the reality...)

Grundy could/should still be the superior player of the pair at least for the next couple of years

Imagine a forward line next year of Brown / Gawn / JVRooter / Fritsch as an awesome foursome too...!

Edited August 28, 20222 yr by adonski

If nothing else, at least having Grundy in the team will mean we could go to either side of the ground on our kick-outs and not be so damn predictable. If we get him cheap (trade wise)  im for it but i worry about the length of contract and hope we arent compromising our long term future.

On second thought, if we manage to snag a couple more flags in the next 3 years it will be worth it.

 

 

Sorry if already stated here but does anyone know what Fremantle is offering us for Luke Jackson 

  On 28/08/2022 at 09:22, Paulo said:

Sorry if already stated here but does anyone know what Fremantle is offering us for Luke Jackson 

Well no, lots of media crud about a first rounder etc but no way we accept just one first rounder even if pick one (which I know they will never get) so personally I think we will ask for a player and top 5 pick, prob end up with a player top 10 pick and a swap of later picks from both teams.

I feel like it will be overly complicated and take a long time.

  On 28/08/2022 at 09:41, Gorgoroth said:

Well no, lots of media crud about a first rounder etc but no way we accept just one first rounder even if pick one (which I know they will never get) so personally I think we will ask for a player and top 5 pick, prob end up with a player top 10 pick and a swap of later picks from both teams.

I feel like it will be overly complicated and take a long time.

Remember this the club that demanded and got pick 2 for Lachie Weller and pick 5 plus another pick for Cerra.

What does that make LJ worth, as a 20 year old ruckman, rising star and premiership player?