Less talking lads....and more winning.

Thats all.

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:57, Cranky Franky said:

Bringing in fresh faces is the obvious thing to do but Goody is extremely stubborn & I reckon he will pretty much stick fat with the current 22.

Which is fraught with danger

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:57, GCDee said:

Sorry old dee..  but that was without a doubt one of the worst most biased umpiring against us I have ever seen. 

I really suggest you go back and watch some of the calls, non calls and [censored] make up as they go calls we were subjected to in that game. (I have)

Look at how often we got pinned for down the field free kicks with the slightest contact, and have a look how many were paid our way. 

Have a look at the how HTB was educated so differently between the two sides. 

Have a look how little contact needed to be made at the bottom of a pack for a free to be called against us with non coming our way. 

That game was 100% determined by the umpiring. Either they are completely incompetent at their job or their was direction for the dogs to win.

I totally agree the bias was disgraceful from the umps but the game was determined by us not taking our opportunities when they came. Overall Brown’s game was actually decent but his two early misses set the tone and meant we were chasing our tails from the point onwards. 

We rarely made the most of the periods where we had the territory and is it just me or do we never look like scoring from stoppages of late?

The game was there for us to win, umps aside, we weren’t good enough to take it. 

  On 27/07/2021 at 06:18, Superunknown said:

There's being positive and then there's gaslighting

How about being honest.

"We're out of form. All is not lost, we can fix this stuff and we're onto it."

See, I didn't even mention learnings.

I think he's blowing smoke up our collective orifice

 

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:12, binman said:

True.

But the same goes for ignoring positive past events and trends.

By that i mean clubs are looking at history to see what are the trends for teams that win flags. if you fail to remember the past you are doomed not to repeat it. 

For example, one clear trend, is teams that peak during the home and away almost never win the flag. Look at last year Port and Lions had barnstorming seasons and finished first and second. Neither team even made it to the big dance.

Another is that every flag winning side of the 13 years, bar the hawks in 2013 have hit a flat spot like the one we have.

And remarkably the Hawks were only minor premier in that period to win a flag  was that 2013 hawks team.

Surely those examples are statistical anomalies. They are more likely evidence of trends that should be followed. As we seem to be. At least the flat spots part.

You don't worry when your Melbourne Cup horse finishes mid field second up over 1600 metres. 

 

I think our horse has been beaten a couple of times at Donald this year though. ?

  On 27/07/2021 at 07:25, old dee said:

That is an often reprise by absolute optimists Smokey. It blinds them to problems. 

I'm one of those absolute optimists (although I may have had a relapse at half time on the weekend). Now if I was a coach or player it would be a problem but if "I'm" blind to problems it matters not, as I have no influence over the issue.

I don't want to get into peoples personal situations but the old saying "hope for the best but plan for the worst" doesn't really apply. If you have bought a membership or watch a game without one you are by definition an optimist. Alternatively, masochistic tendencies could be prevalent.

  On 27/07/2021 at 11:11, dworship said:

I'm one of those absolute optimists (although I may have had a relapse at half time on the weekend). Now if I was a coach or player it would be a problem but if "I'm" blind to problems it matters not, as I have no influence over the issue.

I don't want to get into peoples personal situations but the old saying "hope for the best but plan for the worst" doesn't really apply. If you have bought a membership or watch a game without one you are by definition an optimist. Alternatively, masochistic tendencies could be prevalent.

I think if you are a demon fanatic which means just about everyone on here you are masochistic by the very nature of being a demon fanatic. After 56  years my optimism is getting a little worn. 

  On 27/07/2021 at 11:21, old dee said:

I think if you are a demon fanatic which means just about everyone on here you are masochistic by the very nature of being a demon fanatic. After 56  years my optimism is getting a little worn. 

That's my point, stay and you are still an optimist ie you're still alive and have hope. If not (dead) why are you here?

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:01, bing181 said:

Max provides some great insights into match play and structures, especially around centre bounces and clearances.

Hopefully he can do something about it the next time we play then because his ruck craft has been terrible.

  On 27/07/2021 at 05:28, old dee said:

Well it ain't the brand that is going to win a flag Max! 

Certainly not since the bye OD.

Statistically Max has crashed since then and he isn't alone either.  Plenty of friends, especially his partner in crime Dogga!  Both have dropped away severely in the last five rounds since the break.

Something NQR at camp Demonland since then?

Either that or the FD (Burgess?) has concocted a cunning plan to conserve massive energy in the lead up to the finals post the bye or maybe lull our opponents into a false sense of security!

Here's a summary of Max & Dogga's output (averages) in their matches before and after the bye.  I normally don't place too much weight on stats as they're just a rough indicator of what's gone on in some limited aspects of a player's game and more often than not don't reflect reality.  However some of the results in these tables are pretty alarming, especially given we are only five to six weeks away from finals.

One aspect that stands out for me here (apart from the complete falling away in most areas!) is that Max's Rebound 50s (obviously due to him dropping back into our defensive half) vs Inside 50s (pushing forward) appear to have had a complete swap over after the bye.  Why i wonder?  Substantial change to his role?

He is also racking up almost half of his usual (prior to the bye) effective disposals and contested marks .  If we were talking 10%, maybe even 25% i wouldn't be as worried but above 25% is a substantial deviation (provided the base comparative number isn't miniscule to start with).  Also zero goals scored after the bye even though he would appear to be playing more time forward of center.

Dogga also looks to have hit the wall.

#11          M Gawn	Rnds    1 - 13	Rnds  15 - 19	% Change Post Bye
CP	10.62	9.20	-13.3
UP	7.85	8.00	2.0
ED	13.23	7.80	-41.0
DE%	69.62	46.10	-23.5
CM	2.92	1.60	-45.3
Mi50	0.85	0.60	-29.1
1%	4.69	4.00	-14.8
CL	3.62	4.40	21.7
R50	2.23	1.40	-37.2
i50	2.69	3.40	26.3
T	2.54	2.60	2.4
Si	5.31	4.60	-13.3
MG	277.08	340.60	22.9
TO	3.92	2.60	-33.7
ITC	4.00	3.20	-20.0
T5	0.15	0.20	30.0
TOG%	91.46	89.20	-2.3
G	0.62	0.00	-100.0

 

#6             L Jackson	Rnds    1 - 13	Rnds  15 - 19	% Change Post Bye
CP	7.00	4.60	-34.3
UP	7.08	5.00	-29.4
ED	10.83	6.60	-39.1
DE%	75.63	70.78	-4.8
CM	1.00	0.60	-40.0
Mi50	0.58	0.80	37.1
1%	1.17	2.00	71.4
CL	1.75	0.40	-77.1
R50	0.42	0.40	-4.0
i50	1.83	0.40	-78.2
T	2.17	1.20	-44.6
Si	4.50	3.00	-33.3
MG	119.92	76.40	-36.3
TO	2.33	1.40	-40.0
ITC	1.50	1.80	20.0
T5	0.92	0.00	-100.0
TOG%	77.33	73.00	-4.3
G	0.58	0.40	-31.4

CP = Contested Possessions  UP = Uncontested Possessions  ED = Effective Disposals  DE% = Disposal Efficiency %  CM = Contested Mark

Mi50 = Marks inside 50  1% = One Percenter  CL = Clearances  R50 = Rebound 50  i50 = Inside 50s  T = Tackles  Si = Score Involvements

MG = Meters Gained  TO = Turnovers  ITC = Intercepts  T5 = Tackles inside 50  TOG% = Time on Ground %  G = Goals

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited July 27, 20213 yr by Rusty Nails

Think it is fair enough for Gawn and Goodwin to tell a different story externally (general public) than internally.

No use throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Maintain the perception that everything OK. 

Internally, I think they would be asking some very difficult questions to some of the senior guys (Hibberd, TMac, Brayshaw, Langdon, ANB, etc).

  On 27/07/2021 at 05:42, GCDee said:

You're forgetting the stat that lost us the game... 

11-25

I was saying to an essendrug supporter when we played them that sh$t teams blame the umpire.  We are not a Sh$t team

Four point shmore points, I’m with Gawny, as long as Champion Data says we should have won the game, that’s a win in my books. 

  On 27/07/2021 at 10:49, Brownie said:

I think our horse has been beaten a couple of times at Donald this year though. ?

And a dead heat at a middle of winter Thursday meeting on the synthetic track at Geelong

  On 27/07/2021 at 23:29, Ethan Trembley said:

Four point more points, I’m with Gawny, as long as Champion Data says we should have won the game, that’s a win in my books. 

And there lies the problem stats you can read into them all you want he is a tip watch the damm game and make changes when things don't work coaches sit in the stands and can see the overall ground you cant tell me they see a whole forward continually get sucked up the ground and Stafford thinks thats ok, inside fifties stat is the worst stat in the game means jack [censored].

What I am hoping is that they have built a hard block of training and it will now be eased off for the run home.

  On 27/07/2021 at 10:34, Brownie said:

I think he's blowing smoke up our collective orifice

 

Hilarious - after watching some of the Olympics soccer I'd guess this fragile petal has fallen on a nasty Bindi in the grass

Biggest bunch of fakers and whimps ever - the slightest glance they all fall down like they are decapitated - then 5 seconds later they are up and about sprinting down the ground 

Completely unwatchable  

  On 27/07/2021 at 06:33, sue said:

Could be, but how many of us expected a flag at the start of the season?     Seems to me that expectations rose high due to being unexpectedly near the top of the ladder for so long and that has unreasonably increased the negativity some feel now. 

Let's hope that whatever happens from now is either a surprise return to form and a flag, or failing that, that we have something solid to build on for next year.

Sorry Sue. Rubbish

Our form has clearly changed from rfs 1 to 12 and from then to now. 

That's not expectation. That is blindly obvious. 

And what else is obvious is that our personal basically hasnt changed and nothing that has been done at a coaching level has been able to form that form around. 

 

  On 27/07/2021 at 21:59, Salems Lot said:

I was saying to an essendrug supporter when we played them that sh$t teams blame the umpire.  We are not a Sh$t team

The Adelaide game?

A single point would have made us equal top of the ladder now

Edited July 28, 20213 yr by jnrmac

  On 28/07/2021 at 01:06, jnrmac said:

Sorry Sue. Rubbish

Our form has clearly changed from rfs 1 to 12 and from then to now. 

That's not expectation. That is blindly obvious. 

And what else is obvious is that our personal basically hasnt changed and nothing that has been done at a coaching level has been able to form that form around. 

 

Double sorry jnrmac, it seems very odd that you call my post rubbish, when I said nothing that contradicted what you said.  Surely my mention of hoping for a 'return to form' more than implies I thought we had lost form. 

I was commenting on supporters'  emotions now, not the players performance.  As for whether the coaches haven't done anything, I'm in no position to tell.  And while the personal hasn't changed in name, they may have changed in other ways that challenges the coaches.

  On 27/07/2021 at 05:50, whatwhat say what said:

players and coaches presenting in media will always sell positivity not negativity

they're not demonland posters, after all!

That is true - just imagine the free kicks in the backside if, in the public media, a player/teammate said something uncomplimentary or negatively about his team and its performance lapses/issues. 

  On 27/07/2021 at 11:52, Rusty Nails said:

Certainly not since the bye OD.

Statistically Max has crashed since then and he isn't alone either.  Plenty of friends, especially his partner in crime Dogga!  Both have dropped away severely in the last five rounds since the break.

Something NQR at camp Demonland since then?

Either that or the FD (Burgess?) has concocted a cunning plan to conserve massive energy in the lead up to the finals post the bye or maybe lull our opponents into a false sense of security!

Here's a summary of Max & Dogga's output (averages) in their matches before and after the bye.  I normally don't place too much weight on stats as they're just a rough indicator of what's gone on in some limited aspects of a player's game and more often than not don't reflect reality.  However some of the results in these tables are pretty alarming, especially given we are only five to six weeks away from finals.

One aspect that stands out for me here (apart from the complete falling away in most areas!) is that Max's Rebound 50s (obviously due to him dropping back into our defensive half) vs Inside 50s (pushing forward) appear to have had a complete swap over after the bye.  Why i wonder?  Substantial change to his role?

He is also racking up almost half of his usual (prior to the bye) effective disposals and contested marks .  If we were talking 10%, maybe even 25% i wouldn't be as worried but above 25% is a substantial deviation (provided the base comparative number isn't miniscule to start with).  Also zero goals scored after the bye even though he would appear to be playing more time forward of center.

Dogga also looks to have hit the wall.

#11          M Gawn	Rnds    1 - 13	Rnds  15 - 19	% Change Post Bye
CP	10.62	9.20	-13.3
UP	7.85	8.00	2.0
ED	13.23	7.80	-41.0
DE%	69.62	46.10	-23.5
CM	2.92	1.60	-45.3
Mi50	0.85	0.60	-29.1
1%	4.69	4.00	-14.8
CL	3.62	4.40	21.7
R50	2.23	1.40	-37.2
i50	2.69	3.40	26.3
T	2.54	2.60	2.4
Si	5.31	4.60	-13.3
MG	277.08	340.60	22.9
TO	3.92	2.60	-33.7
ITC	4.00	3.20	-20.0
T5	0.15	0.20	30.0
TOG%	91.46	89.20	-2.3
G	0.62	0.00	-100.0

 

#6             L Jackson	Rnds    1 - 13	Rnds  15 - 19	% Change Post Bye
CP	7.00	4.60	-34.3
UP	7.08	5.00	-29.4
ED	10.83	6.60	-39.1
DE%	75.63	70.78	-4.8
CM	1.00	0.60	-40.0
Mi50	0.58	0.80	37.1
1%	1.17	2.00	71.4
CL	1.75	0.40	-77.1
R50	0.42	0.40	-4.0
i50	1.83	0.40	-78.2
T	2.17	1.20	-44.6
Si	4.50	3.00	-33.3
MG	119.92	76.40	-36.3
TO	2.33	1.40	-40.0
ITC	1.50	1.80	20.0
T5	0.92	0.00	-100.0
TOG%	77.33	73.00	-4.3
G	0.58	0.40	-31.4

CP = Contested Possessions  UP = Uncontested Possessions  ED = Effective Disposals  DE% = Disposal Efficiency %  CM = Contested Mark

Mi50 = Marks inside 50  1% = One Percenter  CL = Clearances  R50 = Rebound 50  i50 = Inside 50s  T = Tackles  Si = Score Involvements

MG = Meters Gained  TO = Turnovers  ITC = Intercepts  T5 = Tackles inside 50  TOG% = Time on Ground %  G = Goals

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Interesting read - frightening read for two key operatives in our team - remember, folks, these two are not alone in this marked form slump. About 75% of our team is paddling the barbed wire canoe against the current in terms of recent form and only a couple of them have learned the Australian crawl. One or two can dog-paddle. 

 

  On 28/07/2021 at 00:22, Sydee said:

Hilarious - after watching some of the Olympics soccer I'd guess this fragile petal has fallen on a nasty Bindi in the grass

Biggest bunch of fakers and whimps ever - the slightest glance they all fall down like they are decapitated - then 5 seconds later they are up and about sprinting down the ground 

Completely unwatchable  

Yeah, I'll watch the Matilda's sometimes. The blokes are hopeless

  On 28/07/2021 at 04:04, Deemania since 56 said:

Interesting read - frightening read for two key operatives in our team - remember, folks, these two are not alone in this marked form slump. About 75% of our team is paddling the barbed wire canoe against the current in terms of recent form and only a couple of them have learned the Australian crawl. One or two can dog-paddle. 

 

Too funny 56.  I wish it weren't so.

Hopefully our boys are watching some of the Olympians and getting a bit of inspiration to go higher, faster, stronger!

  On 28/07/2021 at 01:18, jnrmac said:

The Adelaide game?

A single point would have made us equal top of the ladder now

But a good team does not let it get to a single decision across a game against a poor team.  They can break your heart but when we are on form we don't need the umpires to help.

  On 27/07/2021 at 15:25, dee-tox said:

Think it is fair enough for Gawn and Goodwin to tell a different story externally (general public) than internally.

No use throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Maintain the perception that everything OK. 

Internally, I think they would be asking some very difficult questions to some of the senior guys (Hibberd, TMac, Brayshaw, Langdon, ANB, etc).

I think its fair to say it hasnt been thrown out....its simply stranded as the bathwater was  swallowed by so many.

Edited July 31, 20213 yr by leave it to deever