I've long held the view that Toby Bedford is an outstanding  player and should be playing midfield for us.

I must admit I was won over by Bedford when he plays midfield. Saturday was no exception. Bedford is so bloody good, so fit, quick and bloody tough and puts on hard tackles on opposition and a great kick and dangerous,  and runs and also dynamic. For example his game against North reserves back in Feb 2020 when he ran and kicked a magnificent goal at the City end. 

In summary I just think Bedford is a better player at this stage than Viney,  I like Viney and respect him but more the reasons expressed above we can do better with Bedford.

Further, whilst Jack Vineys courage cannot be questioned Jack is somewhat limited/lacks outstanding abilities in many vital parts of the afl game:

a) kicking the ball (in particular depth, accuracy, ability to pinpoint a quick incisive pass as compared with and not be confused with a slow 15m easy kick)

b) marking(caveat here,  its not surprising and to be expected given his short height)

c) pace, spread from the contest, ability to get into dangerous positions to receive the ball, ability to put on a side step or burst of pace (not to be confused with ability to jog beside/behind an opposition midfielder who he is tasked with tagging- he tagged Wines on Thursday and Wines had 33 possesions! And a goal.

d) damaging with handball (not to be confused with ability to handball in tight

e) never impacts with a goal

Like all supporters I admire Vineys courage and big heart but above all I want our midfield to be better in fact it is a longstanding theme of discussion in post match statements by Goodwin

With respect our midfield could be much better, imo there is so much room for it to grow so that it is less dependent on stars like Oliver, Trac and Jordon and Kozzie with his midfield cameos , that is to have a player who is more skilled and in particular better at kicking, has pace/spread from the contest, side step and just a better overall package rather than mainly tackling.

I cannot see it happening but I think the Match committee should not select Viney unless the other midfielder players mentioned above are injured

Furthermore I would play Toby Bedford in the midfield instead of Jack Viney to see if the hypothesis that Bedford can do more than Viney is correct and test whether Toby makes us a better team.

I know this appears to come from left field but hear me out: firstly it's based on long held views about limitations of Jacks game and I respect Vineys commitment/courage, secondly I fear he is not the best available option if we want to win a premiership and teams with better midfields will expose what I perceive to be an inherent yet fixable weakness in our midfield.

 

Better have another look at Jack's taking down of Ablett in our most recent final against Geelong!

He deserves more opportunity and I am sure it will come over the coming years.

I think he could be the missing piece of the puzzle for our midfield if he can string a run of form together

Perfect game could be the Darwin game for him, being fresh and with lots of hype around the game.

Outstanding player is a bit of a stretch.. 

His last AFL game against Freo last year wasn't exactly anything to write home about and with 6 AFL games left in the season I would think he's in real trouble to retain his spot on the list for next year.

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Outstanding player is a bit of a stretch.. 

His last AFL game against Freo last year wasn't exactly anything to write home about and with 6 AFL games left in the season I would think he's in real trouble to retain his spot on the list for next year.

To be fair he was played in the forward line. Sounds like he may have a future as a mid. 

19 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

To be fair he was played in the forward line. Sounds like he may have a future as a mid. 

His stats at VFL level are again, nothing to write home again if he's playing as a mid. 

Honestly who does he actually replace?

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

His stats at VFL level are again, nothing to write home again if he's playing as a mid. 

Honestly who does he actually replace?

I'm taking OP's word for Bedford, so I have no skin in the game here. Based on what he says could potentially play the ANB role of forward who rotates through the middle. 

Went to Werribee on Saturday to watch the game and check out our next likely players to come in.

Bedford was interesting, along with Chandler, Bowey and Lockhart as small quick players and I tend to agree Bedford has a bit of potential and could make the grade, but only just and all four were below our AFL small brigade of Spargo, ANB, Kossie, and even Hunt and Hibberd who sometimes play on smalls. Unless there is injury they probably won't get a look in this year. 

For the Bowey fans I still don't see any reason for him to play AFL for a year or two. He has the Salem smarts about him but doesn't have an AFL body yet, so needs a couple more pre-seasons and natural growth.

Weidemann is a bit dissapointing. He doesn't play the role of the lead up forward and constantly gets caught out the back of contests. White and Ellison were the two presenting all the time and the fact Ellison who is a natural forward kicked six in his first VFL game is an indictment on Sam. Ellison could have kicked more as he found space early in the day but was ignored as we kept looking for Weeds. (Just a note that Ellison was minded by the 3rd defender whereas Weeds would often attract more than one defender)

Sparrow is still the next in and Melksham has a touch of class and remains in the mix.

Just a note on the Casey boys. Obviously with low injuries there is a lot of AFL listed players in the team so the Casey boys opportunities are limited, but all of them played good games.

And finally I thought two of the most promising players out there were No's 68 George Grey and 40 Kye Declase.   

George Grey was fantastic, quick, clever and in everything, he definitely has a future and we should get him on the list ASAP. Declase played the wing taking over from Rosmann who was largely unsighted unfortunately, But Declase is another who could definitely go to AFL level. He is tall, and plays the wing role really well with good endurance and skills, and with Ellison kicking six our depth is good and Casey are flying. Well done to our recruiters and VFL coaches and development staff.

‘Better midfielder than Viney…’

Sigh. 
 

Yeah, nah.

God, Jack puts up with some crap on here. If the players at the club ever read this they would laugh their heads off.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

His stats at VFL level are again, nothing to write home again if he's playing as a mid. 

Honestly who does he actually replace?

I have no skin in this game either, but ANB is the obvious one

50 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

White and Ellison were the two presenting all the time and the fact Ellison who is a natural forward kicked six in his first VFL game is an indictment on Sam.

A lot of them were cheap joe the goose / out numbers in the goal square. I dont think it marks him as a gun fwd

To be fair to Weed he was also rucking against Lobbe and Buzzer guys much bigger than him

57 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

But Declase is another who could definitely go to AFL level. He is tall, and plays the wing role really well with good endurance and skills,

Agree with that - good kick good size and finds the ball more than Rosman

8 minutes ago, dino rover said:

A lot of them were cheap joe the goose / out numbers in the goal square. I dont think it marks him as a gun fwd

To be fair to Weed he was also rucking against Lobbe and Buzzer guys much bigger than him

I don't either and I never said it did, I'm just observing that a guy playing his first VFL game seemed a more natural forward than Weeds. I know I'm being a bit harsh on Weeds and I certainly wish him well and hope he can make it, but it's with a view as to whether he can make it at AFL level. As a forward I find him a bit disappointing and constantly out of position or easily defended against. And one of Weeds goals was also a joe goose over the top as well.

Was this written by Toby Bedford's manager?

Toby has some talent but is a way off - competing with Spargo/Kozzie/ANB and behind Chandler, Melksham and Jones to do so. 

If you were looking to replace Viney it is Sparrow. 

1 hour ago, deespicable me said:

Went to Werribee on Saturday to watch the game and check out our next likely players to come in.

Bedford was interesting, along with Chandler, Bowey and Lockhart as small quick players and I tend to agree Bedford has a bit of potential and could make the grade, but only just and all four were below our AFL small brigade of Spargo, ANB, Kossie, and even Hunt and Hibberd who sometimes play on smalls. Unless there is injury they probably won't get a look in this year. 

 

In short spurts Bedford really looked great the problem with Toby is that the % of the game that he seems to be involved is quite limited. If he could somehow manage to be a consistent contributor across 4 quarters then we have something to work with. He is not in the same mold of most of our current mids IMO - he is very much an outside player and cannot be compared to Viney, Oliver, Trac, Harmes, AVB etc who are the contested ball specialists. My guess is that Toby has been told he needs to work on certain areas of his game and tick some boxes before he is invited back into the senior team

Of the others mentioned 
Chandler - A fair way down the pecking order in that small / speed forward category 
Bowey - Great skills , football brain, very good at picking the best option and delivering with precision. Has a future but no idea what his final position will be. He sort of reminds me of a faster version of Spargo as both rarely waste possessions
Lockhart - Solid and is very brave, injury interrupted season probably hasn't helped his case - worth persisting with IMO as a replacement small defender 

the notion that bedford is a better midfielder than viney is absolutely absurd 

27 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Agree with that - good kick good size and finds the ball more than Rosman

Declase played quite well - he looked good with ball in hand my query on him would be how hard he works when he hasn't got it. Physically could play AFL and has the skills  

Rosman was disappointing but I think he copped a heavy knock early and didn't really recover. Having said that no way he is ready for senior games - he needs another pre-season at least and to build his strength - has potential no doubt. He needs to model his game on Isaac Smith if you ask me 

Hibberd's spot will probably come up for grabs sometime next year.

Lockhart needs to improve by a factor of around 50% to be in the running.

Must admit I didn't see Jordon as a prospect based on 2019 VFL games but he has surprised us all. Perhaps one of Bedford, Chandler or Lockhart could make the grade

18 minutes ago, kieranbj said:

Was this written by Toby Bedford's manager?

Toby has some talent but is a way off - competing with Spargo/Kozzie/ANB and behind Chandler, Melksham and Jones to do so. 

If you were looking to replace Viney it is Sparrow. 

Totally agree - must have been written by his mum or manager. I have watched Toby closely for a while & agree he has a lot of talent he lacks consistency & goes missing for long periods.  Regularly getting 12 or 13 touches at VFL level is not going to get him promoted & to suggest he replace Viney is delusional. 

28 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I don't either and I never said it did, I'm just observing that a guy playing his first VFL game seemed a more natural forward than Weeds. I know I'm being a bit harsh on Weeds and I certainly wish him well and hope he can make it, but it's with a view as to whether he can make it at AFL level. As a forward I find him a bit disappointing and constantly out of position or easily defended against. And one of Weeds goals was also a joe goose over the top as well.

I’m with you that weed is a doubt to make it

Ellis (?) kicked 6 is only 20 with 4 games so special day

Agree weed not impressive 

Next we'll be hearing that Austin Bradtke is a better ruckman than Max Gawn.

I'm impressed that the OP didn't just postulate that Bedford was a better player than Spargo or Neal-Bullen, he skipped straight to Bedford being a better player than Viney.

How many small forwards develop into quality AFL players after spending three years doing not much in the VFL? I would suggest very few, generally because they don't get given a fourth year.

What a great position for the club to be in, giving players time to develop rather that throwing them to the wolves to early.

I like the looks of Bedford and I think another pre-season will do him wonders.  I see him playing the ANB role, playing forward but pushing up the ground to be an additional mid, then pushing forward.

Bedford has yet to demand a starting spot in the VFL midfield, yet alone the AFL one.

Its nice to see him taking some rotations on ball at Casey. That’s the role he played in the TAC cup - burst speed at centre bounces then went forward. It’s a role that could add something to our AFL team.

But overall I don’t think he has the skills or smarts to be anything at AFL other than depth at this stage, yet alone a starting midfielder.

You can tell smart players by the way they find the ball, the way they attack contests with a plan on how to win it and the poise and class with the ball.

I’d like to see Bedford given a good go at full time midfield minutes at Casey. Remember guys like ANB and even JKH had 30 or even 40 touches at Casey on ball. That’s a lot of chances to learn how to win and use the ball. Bedford probably won’t get that many touches especially if the Casey midfield is loaded with AFL mids but he has to get up to 20 touches at least. 

2 hours ago, deespicable me said:

I don't either and I never said it did, I'm just observing that a guy playing his first VFL game seemed a more natural forward than Weeds. I know I'm being a bit harsh on Weeds and I certainly wish him well and hope he can make it, but it's with a view as to whether he can make it at AFL level. As a forward I find him a bit disappointing and constantly out of position or easily defended against. And one of Weeds goals was also a joe goose over the top as well.

Weeds has ability BUT continually fails to IMPACT himself on the game when he played only as a forward. Plus his good kicking is no longer reliable but a myth esp. at AFL level.

That's why I think he is a Jacko replacement more than BBB or Tmac.

Running around the ground he gets quite good involvement in the game and contests in the ruck adequately. 

Itcwas in complete contrast with BBB on Thursday  night as he ensured that Port had  to mind him and looked dangerous with ball on hand. He also took 2  marks which are normally given!! 
 

Forward  line looks best for weeks and  dalmost best for season. Inaccuracy body is agsin as about 4/5 set shots were squandered by perennial offenders.