Are the Demons pretenders?

[chook fowler 19,459]

Looks like we are pretenders. We lack killer instinct exemplified by losing to the Filth - especially when you see what the Saints are doing to them. Good sides don’t drop games like that. Same can be said for the loss last night where we were asleep for the first half and then played in a state of panic and made stupid mistakes e.g Hunt. The loss to Adelaide was also inexcusable. Each loss was attitudinal. The other concern is we are losing games like this with a healthy list. Our so called depth is very suspect. And we are yet to play 4 quarters. A far bit to worry about.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

[chook fowler 19,459]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

Stop making sense. Just stop it!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,396]

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

Please - BB played in the twos and didn’t do anything to suggest he would have made any difference at all

we are really clutching at straws thinking he is the saviour of our forward line problems 

did nothing last year

had virtually no pre-season this year and so far has been pretty damn underwhelming in the VFL and AFL

could he possibly improve - maybe but atm he’s showing nothing to suggest he can add to what is already a pretty dismal and impotent forward line 

Played 9 games last year due to injury.

Did more in his first two games against North and the Swans than Weid did in his five games.
 

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,396]

I can live with the loss to Collingwood, after back to back wins against the Dogs and Lions and the bye the following week we had already checked out. 
The losses to the Crows and Giants didn’t have to happen. 
Barring injury i want Ben Brown to come in for the remainder off the season, every other forwards game will be better off with him being in the side. 

[The heart beats true 18,123]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

That’s very insightful regarding our age demographic.

Just another reason to be excited as a Demons supporter.

[Superunknown 4,217]

8 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

That’s very insightful regarding our age demographic.

Just another reason to be excited as a Demons supporter.

True

the problem is we are looking like wasting the incredible start 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

Stop making sense. Just stop it!

Makes sense to an extent but the fact is you go hell for leather when you get your chance. Linear improvement is never a given.

[Kent 2,909]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

Are you serious?? This is our year

so many pathetic excuses for serial under performers who cant or wont perform under pressure

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I don't think we're pretenders.  I think the team are a little prone to drinking bathwater though.  The Adelaide loss in particular it was very clear that they hadn't turned up to play that day.  They waltzed out onto the field thinking that the Crows were going to roll over for them.  Collingwood had a similar vibe and we saw it again this week.  Players trying for the spectacular play rather than the best one.  Not watching the ball into their hands, trying for the pinpoint 50m pass into the center square, trying to take mark of the year instead of spoiling over the boundary.  I don't think it's quite sunk in for them that every single team in the competition is made up of professional players and the difference between the top and bottom just isn't that great.  If you give 80% on the day, you're going to get jumped no matter who you're playing.  They need to get back into the mindset they had at the start of the year, play disciplined football, take good options and work for each other. 

[Kent 2,909]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

Ahhhh that forgives all!

[bobby1554 1,244]

4 hours ago, fr_ap said:

It's an interesting situation - I think a few of us need to take a deep breath.

Fact is every club other than the Bulldogs are looking at us are envious of our position. Until next week at least. 

I think the combination of the lack of any large margined dominant wins, together with our fragility as a supporter base, is creating this sense of panic that really isn't justified. Personally I've never had a season where we just...keep on winning - I think it's natural that then when we lose, we get dramatic and think the wheels are falling off. We've known nothing else for our football supporting lives. 

The evidence says we've met every serious challenge this year under a variety of different circumstances

-beat red hot Sydney despite playing poorly ourselves ('winning ugly')

-reversing momentum against one of the best front running aggressive teams in the comp (Brisbane)

-going after the wounded champion (Richmond)

-systematically dismantled the gameplan and contest skills of our nearest competitor (WB)

Whilst we beat Geelong, there were missing a host of their best players and I'm not sure we'd fare as well against their full strength 22.

Unfortunately those who have led the charge - Petracca and Clayton - are immature. There are weeks or months (apparently) where they lose focus, lose application and lose consistency. The forward line is also generally very immature. It's no coincidence that Kozzie's drop in form has corresponded with the team's drop in form.

Barring injuries to May and Lever, our defence will keep us in most games. The rest will turn on the mood and attentiveness of Petracca and Oliver. 

Think about the week to week consistency we get out of May, Lever (who is a very old young man), Hibberd, Gawn, Tom Mac, and the quietly mature Langdon. If we had that sort of consistency of output from our prime movers - Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, Kozzie - we'd look a lot more like a premiership team. 

The forward line needs work in general but I honestly think that lack of maturity is the problem. We just can't rely on our game changers to show up on any given week or even in any given quarter. 

We can fiddle with structure, we can add BB in, etc etc....I can't help thinking that is all academic.

Our fortunes will rise or fall on the mental positioning of our prime movers come finals time. 

And yet maturity is the very thing that has been put forward by the players as being the thing that has driven the success to date! Remember those club videos saying how the players had bought in and accepted responsibility to move the club forward, ala showing maturity. So what is it, some have, some haven’t? I’m sorry, but when you are getting paid bucketloads you don’t just turn up when you feel like it. Oliver and Petracca are prime examples, they were going through the motions yesterday. If they think they can just flick a switch and all will be well, they are kidding themselves and need to grow up, FAST!!

[Boots and all 1,000]

Nope, not pretenders.

We may not be quite as good as our early season form showed because Burgo had us ahead of the pack with superior fitness. That advantage was never going to last forever as players gained match fitness. Yeah, we've hit a flat spot but we're still in the mix. Every premiership side (not saying that's us this year necessarily) loses games over the course of the year that surprise. I reckon they will respond and it will all be driven by our midfield.

I just think that as a team we've swung too far towards the defensive mindset and now need to find that balance again by taking a few more chances, especially early in games. For us to kick 100+ points, we cannot rely on the forward line only, we need goals from Clarrie, Trac, Harmes, Langdon, Vines and JJ.

Oliver and Trac are slightly out of form, but seriously, these guys will not be down for long and back kicking goals 1-2 each per game. Vines was in great form prior to his foot injury and is taking a while to hit form again, it's OK he will. In the back of his mind he would be really concerned about aggravating his foot again, knowing that it would likely be season over for him. Look at Dangerfield, he only hit top form against the Bombers this week. I reckon he's been back for 4-5?

The backline is still strong and defensively we are really good. Teams are not going to score big against us. We will lose more games this season against teams we shouldn't, but also win a few that will surprise.

It's not [censored]' over. Go you Demons!

Edited July 4, 2021 by Boots and all

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

Did you watch that game where he kicked 5 ? 
 

One was an absolute gift over the top from AVB , another one was a very good kick to advantage where he was able to run onto the ball 15 out

His opponent looked seriously unfit to me and would have 20 goals kicked on him by a decent AFL standard key forward. 

Sorry but he wasn’t that impressive and as much as I’m not a massive Weid fan I thought his performance was actually better albeit in a different role 

 

 

Yeah I watched it. The best contributions were the goals he missed, because he actually took strong grabs on the lead. He also nailed a couple of shots from marks. It wasn’t  a mind blowing game, but did you watch the butchered delivery from the VFL players to him? Weid was excellent up the ground, but unless you are dropping TMAC, there isn’t a spot for Weid

Edited July 4, 2021 by Kick_It_To_Pickett

[Adam The God 30,259]

I posted this in the Time To Panic thread, but it's just as relevant here:

We dominated the Bulldogs and smashed Brisbane in the second half. They're our two biggest threats at this stage. They sit 1st and 3rd. We're certainly not pretenders. Pretenders are football teams that smack the lowly sides and struggle against the top sides. I'd put Port, Bulldogs and maybe even Geelong in this category, based on their performances this year.

We've simply not turned up mentally for our three losses to much lower ranked teams and yet we could have won all of them in the last quarter.

Are we a chance to slip out of the top 4 at the end of the season? Yes. Do I think we will? No.

I'd expect us to beat Port, so it'll be interesting to see how we go.

As for the Bulldogs, they've had a dream draw and one of their toughest assignments was West Coast in Perth and they ended up playing to a vacant house. Very lucky. I think the Bulldogs will come unstuck. Every time they've been challenged this year they've crumbled.

[rpfc 28,433]

Contenders, pretenders, misnomers.

Finish top 4 and I don’t care what you call us. 

Funny things happen in finals and we play a style that suits it, but we are rarely going to get the kind of platform to finish top 4 like we have in 2021. 

Footy clubs relish the big moments and this Thursday is huge. I’m looking forward to it, it is defining.

And I get your point @Jaded about the team and the youth. But you have to capitalise on opportunities like this because they may not come around again - even with our promise.

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

At this stage I don't think we're pretenders. It's normal for a team to suffer from an occasional form slump regardless of their position on the ladder. I remember in 2018, the year where we played in a preliminary final, we lost three games in a row in the middle of the year but quickly returned to our best. Unless our form slump continues over the next few weeks, I think it's pointless to panic.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Hopeful Demon

[Sydee 4,442]

3 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Played 9 games last year due to injury.

Did more in his first two games against North and the Swans than Weid did in his five games.
 

 

His 2020 was a disaster and effectively shown the door by a team that’s probably going to win the spoon

Outperforming Weid is hardly something to get excited about

Comparisons aside his form recently simply doesn’t warrant a senior call up IMO

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Sydee

[Fanatique Demon 2,646]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

Thanks Jaded. Where did you find that, please?

[monoccular 17,429]

6 hours ago, CYB said:

 Certainly looks like we are. Yes we are 12-3 but boy how many of those games were you truly happy with rather than just saying I’ll definitely take that one because we were playing well. 
 

The only games we were truly convincing in we’re against Doggies and Richmond and 1 half against the Lions. Yes all quality opposition - does it say some thing about the mental state of our team when we play top oppositions vs when we are just expected to win? 

 

6 hours ago, fr_ap said:

It's an interesting situation - I think a few of us need to take a deep breath.

Fact is every club other than the Bulldogs are looking at us are envious of our position. Until next week at least. 

I think the combination of the lack of any large margined dominant wins, together with our fragility as a supporter base, is creating this sense of panic that really isn't justified. Personally I've never had a season where we just...keep on winning - I think it's natural that then when we lose, we get dramatic and think the wheels are falling off. We've known nothing else for our football supporting lives. 

The evidence says we've met every serious challenge this year under a variety of different circumstances

-beat red hot Sydney despite playing poorly ourselves ('winning ugly')

-reversing momentum against one of the best front running aggressive teams in the comp (Brisbane)

-going after the wounded champion (Richmond)

-systematically dismantled the gameplan and contest skills of our nearest competitor (WB)

Whilst we beat Geelong, there were missing a host of their best players and I'm not sure we'd fare as well against their full strength 22.

Unfortunately those who have led the charge - Petracca and Clayton - are immature. There are weeks or months (apparently) where they lose focus, lose application and lose consistency. The forward line is also generally very immature. It's no coincidence that Kozzie's drop in form has corresponded with the team's drop in form.

Barring injuries to May and Lever, our defence will keep us in most games. The rest will turn on the mood and attentiveness of Petracca and Oliver. 

Think about the week to week consistency we get out of May, Lever (who is a very old young man), Hibberd, Gawn, Tom Mac, and the quietly mature Langdon. If we had that sort of consistency of output from our prime movers - Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, Kozzie - we'd look a lot more like a premiership team. 

The forward line needs work in general but I honestly think that lack of maturity is the problem. We just can't rely on our game changers to show up on any given week or even in any given quarter. 

We can fiddle with structure, we can add BB in, etc etc....I can't help thinking that is all academic.

Our fortunes will rise or fall on the mental positioning of our prime movers come finals time. 

I have raised the question several times over the last 20 years, do we have a sports psychologist?  If not, why not?

5 hours ago, Mickey said:

We obviously don't get up mentally for games against bottom teams, but do we really think that will be an issue in finals?

We've beaten all of the top 8 teams we've played comfortably, with the exception of Sydney. But we need to finish top 4 to maximise our chances.

Would bot be surprised to see us come out and beat Port. It's the adelaide/Hawthorn games I'm worried about, and how they will affect our top 4 chances.

 

Totally agree - but we need to make a genuine bold statement Thursday night, and right from the first bounce.  Cannot afford yet another sleepy start. 

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

We had the third youngest team out on the field this week. We are at the very start of our window, and literally not one single supporter thought we would finish top 2 this year, let alone win a flag. 
We are not where we need to be to win premierships, but we have a very strong foundation to build on. 
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. 

Yet all the mainstream media bleat on and in about is the baby bombers. 

[COOLX 209]

I am leaning to possibly we are not pretenders. I have seen  form slumps before that make one chunder. Under Skilton we were 9 win 2 loss half way thru the season (12 teams) comp. then  the wheels fell off 1 win 1 draw and 9 losses no finals. In 1965 we were going well then the wheels fell off. We were going well one year then loss 6 straight plus much more. I am turning white typing this.

We have in the past 3 players constantly injured Vanders , J.Smith and Viney.  We should have flogged Viney off to Geelong , to win flags forget loyalty.  We picked up Daw as a back up ruckman surely we should be trying him as a forward as well as J.Smith in the reserves as we are getting nothing out of Weid and B.Brown. We also offer N.Jones a one year contract, no other club wanted his services.  We have to make 3-4 changes for the Port clash as we have flat lined.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

49 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Contenders, pretenders, misnomers.

Finish top 4 and I don’t care what you call us. 

Funny things happen in finals and we play a style that suits it, but we are rarely going to get the kind of platform to finish top 4 like we have in 2021. 

Footy clubs relish the big moments and this Thursday is huge. I’m looking forward to it, it is defining.

And I get your point @Jaded about the team and the youth. But you have to capitalise on opportunities like this because they may not come around again - even with our promise.

Don’t get me wrong. We can win a flag this year and we should do absolutely everything in our power to make that happen. I’m not excusing our age or inexperience. We are not in good form at the moment, and yes these opportunities don’t come around often and they may never come again. We may never get such a good injury run again. 
My point still remains that we are not pretenders, and we have a good enough foundation of defense, and a good enough list both in terms of personnel and age profile that if we don’t win a flag this year it doesn’t mean we can’t win one in the next few years. 
It’s July. Flags are not won in July. We have glaring issues that need to be fixed, but they are not issues that take pre seasons to fix. They are issues we can resolve in the next few weeks and I’m confident we will. 

[Antioch 232]

7 hours ago, Sydee said:

Please - BB played in the twos and didn’t do anything to suggest he would have made any difference at all

we are really clutching at straws thinking he is the saviour of our forward line problems 

did nothing last year

had virtually no pre-season this year and so far has been pretty damn underwhelming in the VFL and AFL

could he possibly improve - maybe but atm he’s showing nothing to suggest he can add to what is already a pretty dismal and impotent forward line 

Ben Brown had a very good game last week for Casey when he kicked five goals. That’s what his selection should have been based on. Not this week when he was on the bench for half the game, being prepared for next week to return to the seniors.

[Antioch 232]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

Don’t get me wrong. We can win a flag this year and we should do absolutely everything in our power to make that happen. I’m not excusing our age or inexperience. We are not in good form at the moment, and yes these opportunities don’t come around often and they may never come again. We may never get such a good injury run again. 
My point still remains that we are not pretenders, and we have a good enough foundation of defense, and a good enough list both in terms of personnel and age profile that if we don’t win a flag this year it doesn’t mean we can’t win one in the next few years. 
It’s July. Flags are not won in July. We have glaring issues that need to be fixed, but they are not issues that take pre seasons to fix. They are issues we can resolve in the next few weeks and I’m confident we will. 

Defence in Australia. Defense in the USA.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,247]

Genuine premiership contenders don't (in general) lose 2 matches in a row.

How the team deals with Port on Thursday will go a long way to showing whether the Demons are 'the real deal'.