COVID & AFL 2021

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Well 29 cases doesnt bode well for MCG finals does it.

What is the latest on a finals hub in Perth?

Can you imagine if that is the case and neither WC or Freo play in them......you would hear the boos from Victoria.

[hardtack 10,158]

55 minutes ago, old dee said:

Well I don't care about football this morning. There has been a case at my GD's school. She has to get tested today and that is consuming my thoughts right now. It is no longer something that happens to other people it is at my door. 

Sending positive thoughts OD. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,995]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

My understanding is that very few Covid autopsies are being carried out so who would know?

To clarify Kent, are you saying very few autopsies during the pandemic?

[Diamond_Jim 12,024]

52.6% of eligible Bendigo residents have had their first dose.

Highest rate in the country I believe......... well done

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/they-re-pro-vaccine-bendigo-goes-for-gold-with-inoculations-20210804-p58ftk.html

Edited August 7, 2021 by Diamond_Jim

[Kent 2,632]

43 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

To clarify Kent, are you saying very few autopsies during the pandemic?

yes

But the COVID-19 death toll publicised daily on Australian state and territory government websites and reported to the press does not differentiate between the two. It includes all people who’ve died with SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) in their body. It’s unclear if the federal government currently makes this distinction or not.

[OhMyDees 1,342]

Grand Final will be in Perth or Adelaide. My bet is WA will get it. 

Victoria will continue to suffer because of the NSW situation and I just can’t see any crowds for the regular season and likely finals too. 

[TRIGON 4,719]

🎼  I feel like I'm going locko, down in Danapulco 🎼

[hardtack 10,158]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

yes

But the COVID-19 death toll publicised daily on Australian state and territory government websites and reported to the press does not differentiate between the two. It includes all people who’ve died with SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) in their body. It’s unclear if the federal government currently makes this distinction or not.

Source of this quote please.

Edit: never mind, I found it. It’s from The Conversation.

Edited August 7, 2021 by hardtack

[old dee 22,992]

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Except in WA and that state is going to reap the rewards next month.

Now I finally understand why the people of Western Australia love Mark McGowan and why he’s segregated his state from the rest of the country.

 

It is not as hard for WA they are surround by thousands of km of desert and ocean with only a few crossing points.

[Diamond_Jim 12,024]

If you wish to be depressed take a look at the rates of vaccination in Africa

https://covidvax.live/continent/africa

[binman 39,099]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

My difficulty with political type posts is that they usually present just one side of the story.

There are a variety of reasons why we are where we are:

Low vaccination rates:

• lack of supply due to fed government stuff ups, EU withholding supply etc,
• lack of and miscommunication due to Europe's bad PR on AZ, ATAGI vacillating on advice, state CHO's not supporting ATAGI recommendations, language barriers etc
• lack of demand due to complacency, anxiety, cultural influences, antivaxers

Irresponsible people.  The current east coast wave started when an unvaccinated 60+ man worked in the most high risk job possible:  transporting air crew from airport to accommodation.  Not blaming him - it is his right not to get vaccinated.  But he should not have been in that job.  Like any work Health and Safety policies all stakeholders need to be protected.  Its like if people don't wear a safety harness they don't work on skyscrapers.  The man should have been given another role in a low risk area.

Human error:  People being released from quarantine while positive.

Delta mutation:  Its arrival and age group targets surprised everyone.  It made early vaccination plans to do older folks first somewhat redundant.   Younger folk needs have increased demand.

I could go on but I hope people see the bigger picture.

I'm trying very hard sticking to the rules in this thread and not making political posts. But can I just say this post, which makes a lot of excellent and very valid points does not, in my view, show the other side of the story.

These points are the story.

And all relate to political failings of one sort or another.

Which is not to under sell the incredible complexity of the issues. Mistakes are inevitable in a crisis such as this. 

And state governments, including in Victoria, have made their share of errors that have contributed to the situation we are in.  As have individuals of course. 

But the fact remains that the federal government is responsible for both the root cause of the issues we face and the solutions to those issues - the quarantine and vaccination programs.

One of the key failings relates to this point: 

'Delta mutation:  Its arrival and age group targets surprised everyone.  It made early vaccination plans to do older folks first somewhat redundant.   Younger folk needs have increased demand.'

This is not the case. And the federal government should not get away with their messaging it is. The delta is a game changer narrative needs to be challenged 

All the talk of following the expert advice rings hollow.

For one thing, epidemiologists warned at the start of the pandemic of the risk of mutating strains that are more contagious. It is how viruses work.

We should have been prepared for the inevitability of a variant like delta. For example by making sure our quarantine system was robust (we had Howard Springs as perfect model to replicate) and making sure the  vaccination program was fit for purpose to respond to such an inevitability

Secondly, the delta variant first emerged in India in OCTOBER last year. The danger it represented was apparent by the end of last year and it peaked in May of this year. The horror it wrought was there for the whole world to see.

So it arrival, impact, infectiousness and impact on younger people was anything but a surprise.  

Australia has a big Indian community. Australians were coming home from India. It was always coming here.

We had advance warning of a tsunami coming towards us. And seemingly made no attempt to prepare for it. 

This is not an attempt at political point scoring. We live in a democracy and i fully respect that collectively we elected the current federal government to lead us.

I support good public policy. I want my federal government to implement good policy.

I want my federal government to succeed. And they are best placed to do so by reviewing any failings and addressing them. I don't see much evince that this is happening. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by binman

[Jara 1,149]

Good points, Binman. 

Most telling stat I've heard about our Federal leaders lately: Morrison made around 55 calls to world leaders trying to get Cormann a job with the OECD but not a single one to the head of Pfizer trying to get more vaccines. 

I was dismayed by Morrison's complete lack of moral support for Victorians during last year's outbreak. Barely a syllable: just send in the attack dogs. 

Not that I had very high expectations of Morrison anyway. I'm a CFA volunteer; while we were out getting overwhelmed by those monstrous fires in The Black Summer, he was swanning around Hawaii. His Churchillian war-cry? I don't hold a hose, mate.

 

[Winners at last 4,853]

To all ... if you can get vaccinated, get vaccinated!! 

Don't leave it to others. Nothing will change if you don't. (Well, it may get worse.)

 

P.S. Disclosure ... I've had AZ x 2.

[Demonstone 19,706]

Agreed, bingers. 

If you have the opportunity to get vaccinated and don't take it up, you'd have to have rocks in your head.

[WalkingCivilWar 33,507]

6 minutes ago, bingers said:

To all ... if you can get vaccinated, get vaccinated!! 

Don't leave it to others. Nothing will change if you don't. (Well, it may get worse.)

 

P.S. Disclosure ... I've had AZ x 2.

❗️❗️❗️

[Lucifers Hero 37,327]

56 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm trying very hard sticking to the rules in this thread and not making political posts. But can i just say this post, which makes  a lot of excellent and very valid points does not, in my view, show the other side of the story.

These points are the story.

And all relate to political failings of one sort or another.

Which is not to under sell the incredible complexity of the issues. Mistakes are inevitable in s crisis such as this. 

And state governments, including in Victoria, have made their share of errors that have contributed to the situation we are in.  As have individuals of course. 

But the fact remains that the federal government are responsible for both the root cause of the issues we face and the solutions to those issues - the quarantine and vaccination programs.

One of the key failings relates to this point: 

'Delta mutation:  Its arrival and age group targets surprised everyone.  It made early vaccination plans to do older folks first somewhat redundant.   Younger folk needs have increased demand.'

This is not the case. And the federal government should not get away with their messaging it is. The delta is game changer narrative needs to be challenged 

All the talk of following the expert advice rings hollow.

For one thing, epidemiologists warned at the start of the pandemic of the risk of mutating strains that are more contagious. It is how viruses work.

We should have been prepared for the inevitability of a variant like delta. For example by making sure our quarantine system was robust (we had Howard Springs as perfect model to replicate) and making sure the the vaccination program was fit for purpose for such an inevitability

Secondly, the delta variant first emerged in India in OCTOBER last year. Its danger was apparent by the end of last year and it peaked in May of this year. The horror it wrought was there for the whole world to see

So it arrival, impact, infectiousness and impact on younger people was anything but a surprise.  

Australia has a big Indian community. Australians were coming home from India. It was always coming here.

We had advice warning of a tsunami coming towards us. And seemingly made no attempt to prepare for it. 

This is not an attempt at political point scoring. We live in a democracy and i fully respect that collectively we elected the current federal government to lead us.

I support good public policy. I want my federal government to implement good policy.

I want my federal government to succeed. And they are best placed to do so by reviewing any failings and addressing them. I don't see much evince that this is happening. 

On Quarantine:

The best quarantine program in the world would not have prevented the current wave (the subject of my post) because the causes were pre quarantine  ie an unvaccinated person (driver) working in the highest risk area (ferrying air crew) and and post quarantine ie human error releasing people from quarantine while positive.  Howard Springs facilities in all states would not prevent those pre and post covid escapes.  It is people who made mistakes outside the quarantine facilities.

On Delta:

Everyone knows and knew that covid would mutate.  That is what viruses do.  Some covid mutations have been:  Brazil, African, Uk, Kappa, Beta, Alpha and Delta strains which all emerged in 2020.  If our or any government had punted that eg kappa would be the problem and that didn't happen there would be outrage about how they got it wrong and should have punted on a, b, or c.  

And, how many governments predicted that Delta would become the nightmare it has; targetting young people behaving very differently to other strains?  It wasn't until Delta spread to the UK in April and the tragedy in May in India that there was advice that a tsunami was coming.  April/May wasn't very long ago.  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  No country has had a crystal ball on the impact of Delta.  

[Pennant St Dee 11,488]

5 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Except in WA and that state is going to reap the rewards next month.

Now I finally understand why the people of Western Australia love Mark McGowan and why he’s segregated his state from the rest of the country.

 

I don’t love  him, he’s benefitted from our geographic isolation, which made it very easy for him to adopt this policy. It’s not the easiest of states to get into with only the main arterial roads to worry about.  If you want to take your chances coming in the back tracks, you better hope you don’t break down or you have plenty of back up fuel and water.

He was an odds on 1 term Premier until Covid

Edited August 7, 2021 by Pennant St Dee

[dl4e 5,648]

So in W.A. if they get a covid case or two during the finals then will they act as they have done in the past and maybe play a game but with no crowds. What if it happened during Grand Final week ? I wouldn't give the final series to W.A. in a pink fit.

[binman 39,099]

44 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It wasn't until Delta spread to the UK in April and the tragedy in May in India that there was advice that a tsunami was coming.  April/May wasn't very long ago.  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  No country has had a crystal ball on the impact of Delta.  

Sorry, LF that simply is not true.

Hindsight was not required, nor was a crystal ball

Anyone with access to the internet knew what was coming well ahead of May. 

April/May was the PEAK of Delta in India. It has been been there since October 2020 and began to surge out of control at the beginning of  March 2021. So its impact, and the risk it posed, was clear at a minimum five months ago.

Five months. Why didn't they accelerate the quarantine roll out then? It took the current crisis in NSW for them to find some urgency.

But lets say the federal government only became aware of the impending tsunami in May. 

It is now August. And it was only a few days ago that they advised a sharp, fast lock down is the best approach to manage delta. A full month after NSW failed to lock down immediately, when all available evidence suggested they simply had to. 

The lack of federal advice or pressure to lock down hard and fast gave NSW cover to delay their lockdown. And no one could now argue that decision was the wrong one.

The horse has now bolted. And here we are.

 

[dieter 3,325]

53 minutes ago, binman said:

Sorry, LF that simply is not true.

Hindsight was not required, nor was a crystal ball

Anyone with access to the internet knew what was coming well ahead of May. 

April/May was the PEAK of Delta in India. It has been been there since October 2020 and began to surge out of control at the beginning of  March 2021. So its impact, and the risk it posed, was clear at a minimum five months ago.

Five months. Why didn't they accelerate the quarantine roll out then? It took the current crisis in NSW for them to find some urgency.

But lets say the federal government only became aware of the impending tsunami in May. 

It is now August. And it was only a few days ago that they advised a sharp, fast lock down is the best approach to manage delta. A full month after NSW failed to lock down immediately, when all available evidence suggested they simply had to. 

The lack of federal advice or pressure to lock down hard and fast gave NSW cover to delay their lockdown. And no one could now argue that decision was the wrong one.

The horse has now bolted. And here we are.

 

All valid and great points. I am almost mute with exasperation with those people who cannot comprehend how much Morrison has lied to us and totally failed us. From the Ruby Princess onwards...There are great articles by Bernard Keane in Crikey and Michelle Grattan in The Conversation where, Keane in particular, pinpoints every time Morrison has lied  and attempted to cover up and 'word spin' his way out of a mess he and his 'Its not a race' government have made of this. 

[old dee 22,992]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

Well I don't care about football this morning. There has been a case at my GD's school. She has to get tested today and that is consuming my thoughts right now. It is no longer something that happens to other people it is at my door. 

I have good news to report. Just 30 minutes ago we heard the whole thing about exposure at my GD’s school was wrong. A false alarm. Needless to say there are a lot of [censored] off parents. Some sat in testing queues for hours. But the problem has gone away I feel better than if we won the GF.

[dpositive 1,564]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

On Quarantine:

The best quarantine program in the world would not have prevented the current wave (the subject of my post) because the causes were pre quarantine  ie an unvaccinated person (driver) working in the highest risk area (ferrying air crew) and and post quarantine ie human error releasing people from quarantine while positive.  Howard Springs facilities in all states would not prevent those pre and post covid escapes.  It is people who made mistakes outside the quarantine facilities.

On Delta:

Everyone knows and knew that covid would mutate.  That is what viruses do.  Some covid mutations have been:  Brazil, African, Uk, Kappa, Beta, Alpha and Delta strains which all emerged in 2020.  If our or any government had punted that eg kappa would be the problem and that didn't happen there would be outrage about how they got it wrong and should have punted on a, b, or c.  

And, how many governments predicted that Delta would become the nightmare it has; targetting young people behaving very differently to other strains?  It wasn't until Delta spread to the UK in April and the tragedy in May in India that there was advice that a tsunami was coming.  April/May wasn't very long ago.  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  No country has had a crystal ball on the impact of Delta.  

I got the last plane out of Peru to Bolivia to Chile to Australia when Covid began to spread and those countries locked down two years ago. Their lock downs ncluded troops n the street but the populations were overwhelmed by density, poor health facilities and poor economies. We returned to Melbourne airport where we were given a foolscap sheet and told to self isolate. Our border control people still patting themselves on the back for stopping the boats were self absorbed and not concerned about scientific projections.

i began and have since repeated ad nauseum that we needed to recognise a health problem by recognising the operations of Fairfield Infectous diseases hospital which was closed down by Jeff Kennet as part of his magnificent economic reforms.

We needed to have a purpose built quarantine facility, we needed to reinvest in tracking tracing and treating, and we needed to develop a vaccine. Of course with the closure of Fairfield, many of our specialist scientists were recruited by private organisations or went overseas.Two years we have had to resolve these issues.

While there is some fault that can be directed to State governments for their inconsistent and uncoordinated actions the Federal government must be held responsible for this total shambles. 

The shambles in aged care which resulted in so many deaths, the delays in obtaining vaccines, the stupidities of the economic actions without focusing on health performance and the still hopeless handling of incoming people is all directly the responsibility of this government. I despair that the opposition which while offering positive suggestions which were later adopted was, as a powerless entity, ridiculed by a variety of the press, reviled by many, duped into supporting many of the kneejerk reactions this government adopted.

We still have no border control (quarantine facilities), no vaccine production, inadequate internal coordinated tracking and tracing and our treating facilities are While not overwhelmed within a whisker due to lack of coordinated direction from the federal government.

Because Morrison demanded a trillion dollar debt to pay for Covid actions he never intended to undertake, he has not, State governments realised the intention to use this slush fund was likely to be another car park shambles stepped into take those funds.

There has been little effort to actually address the health issue.

There I have now exposed demonlanders to the arguments I have been boring anyone I met with for the last two years. I guess lockdown has got to me and i cant vent on my soapbox to friends so sorry about that.

i do enjoy the variety of opinions pressed within this site and congratulate you all for retaining interest.

it will be an enjoyable day when we can again focus on our footy teams fortunes given that we are approaching the dawn of a new era of success

GO DEES

 

[WalkingCivilWar 33,507]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

I have good news to report. Just 30 minutes ago we heard the whole thing about exposure at my GD’s school was wrong. A false alarm. Needless to say there are a lot of [censored] off parents. Some sat in testing queues for hours. But the problem has gone away I feel better than if we won the GF.

Every kid deserves a Grandad like you. ❤️

[Lucifers Hero 37,327]

2 hours ago, dpositive said:

I got the last plane out of Peru to Bolivia to Chile to Australia when Covid began to spread and those countries locked down two years ago. Their lock downs ncluded troops n the street but the populations were overwhelmed by density, poor health facilities and poor economies. We returned to Melbourne airport where we were given a foolscap sheet and told to self isolate. Our border control people still patting themselves on the back for stopping the boats were self absorbed and not concerned about scientific projections.

i began and have since repeated ad nauseum that we needed to recognise a health problem by recognising the operations of Fairfield Infectous diseases hospital which was closed down by Jeff Kennet as part of his magnificent economic reforms.

We needed to have a purpose built quarantine facility, we needed to reinvest in tracking tracing and treating, and we needed to develop a vaccine. Of course with the closure of Fairfield, many of our specialist scientists were recruited by private organisations or went overseas.Two years we have had to resolve these issues.

While there is some fault that can be directed to State governments for their inconsistent and uncoordinated actions the Federal government must be held responsible for this total shambles. 

The shambles in aged care which resulted in so many deaths, the delays in obtaining vaccines, the stupidities of the economic actions without focusing on health performance and the still hopeless handling of incoming people is all directly the responsibility of this government. I despair that the opposition which while offering positive suggestions which were later adopted was, as a powerless entity, ridiculed by a variety of the press, reviled by many, duped into supporting many of the kneejerk reactions this government adopted.

We still have no border control (quarantine facilities), no vaccine production, inadequate internal coordinated tracking and tracing and our treating facilities are While not overwhelmed within a whisker due to lack of coordinated direction from the federal government.

Because Morrison demanded a trillion dollar debt to pay for Covid actions he never intended to undertake, he has not, State governments realised the intention to use this slush fund was likely to be another car park shambles stepped into take those funds.

There has been little effort to actually address the health issue.

There I have now exposed demonlanders to the arguments I have been boring anyone I met with for the last two years. I guess lockdown has got to me and i cant vent on my soapbox to friends so sorry about that.

i do enjoy the variety of opinions pressed within this site and congratulate you all for retaining interest.

it will be an enjoyable day when we can again focus on our footy teams fortunes given that we are approaching the dawn of a new era of success

GO DEES

 

Glad you could vent here.  We may not always agree but will always support.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[old dee 22,992]

3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Every kid deserves a Grandad like you. ❤️

I try to do my best WCW.