We have the example of the importance of one player to both a team and their success rate. 

We accept that to win flags you need a champion team over a team of champions. However, you cannot under estimate the importance of one player. 

Currently, his name is Dusty. 

But when you think back, it has always been so. 

It was often said during the Demons great days, “no Barassi, no Melbourne”. And the facts are that Melbourne was often vulnerable when RDB was not playing. Arguably we missed out winning the flag in 63 when Ron was suspended for hitting Roger Dean just before the finals. Ron provided the leadership, the spark that inspired others. Norm Smith knew this and it was the reason he was always so tough on him and would provoke an angry and aggressive response from Ron on the field. 

There are plenty of examples. 

Hawthorn without Hudson, Geelong without Ablett Snr, South without Skilton,  the Tigers without Hart or Stewart.  The Blues without Jezza. The list goes on and on. 

Is it the Demons without Oliver or  Gawn or Petracca or May?

At times the absence of one key player can make a difference to winning games. 

Whatever the answer, it is the reason we need to remain circumspect about the ultimate success this season. 

We need a full fit list to push for glory. 

In my view, the key player to our fortunes is probably Max. For his leadership and influence on the ground. 

As a current AFL player said to me recently, if you put Max in the Bulldogs team, they would be unstoppable. 

Anyway, let’s keep our fingers crossed in regard to our very best whether it be Gawn, Clarry , Petracca, May etc. 

 

In my opinion, based on performances this year and the way we've won our games based on our defence, the MFC's most important player right now is Christian Salem.

My son’s basketball team (second on the ladder) played their arch rivals (top of the ladder) on Tuesday. Having lost both recent clashes narrowly, they found said rival team had turned up without their best player. My son’s team we went on to deliver one of the biggest beltings they’ve ever been part of. 

Obviously u12s basketball isn’t AFL football but I think the principle still stands. For all we bang on about depth, top players are completely irreplaceable. Our 23rd best player can’t cover Petracca. Majak Daw can’t cover Max Gawn. Richmond are much weaker without Dusty. Best players are irreplaceable.

Depth is an illusion. A couple of key injuries to crucial players and we will be right back to mid pack. Any premiership coach will tell you that one of the key ingredients to a premiership is luck. It’s been on our side so far this year. Let’s hope it continues.

3 minutes ago, Nasher said:

My son’s basketball team (second on the ladder) played their arch rivals (top of the ladder) on Tuesday. Having lost both recent clashes narrowly, they found said rival team had turned up without their best player. My son’s team we went on to deliver one of the biggest beltings they’ve ever been part of. 

Obviously u12s basketball isn’t AFL football but I think the principle still stands. For all we bang on about depth, top players are completely irreplaceable. Our 23rd best player can’t cover Petracca. Majak Daw can’t cover Max Gawn. Richmond are much weaker without Dusty. Best players are irreplaceable.

Depth is an illusion. A couple of key injuries to crucial players and we will be right back to mid pack. Any premiership coach will tell you that one of the key ingredients to a premiership is luck. It’s been on our side so far this year. Let’s hope it continues.

Nasher basketball is the greatest individual Team sport ever, especially at young age groups you can have a dominant player that can get the ball in the back half pass to no one and score or a big kid that stands under the ring and just grabs and shoots.

Footy you need to team mates, it is highly unlikely that you can score unless a number of your team mates touch the ball.  Your better players make you better as long as they buy into the teams structures and rules.  If you lose one, you can cover if you start losing 3-4 of your better players you will struggle.

Richmond lost the best FB in the game and went on to win a flag, Hawthorn lost the best forward on the last 20 years and went on to win a flag.  I'm sure Richmond would have loved to have Rance and Hawthorn Buddy but the team structures covered them.  With out a team mentality you can have a superstar in your side and finish last 

Football is a team game and there are 36 players on the field at any point in time. The Kangaroos had a great record without Carey. The Bombers should have won the flag in 1999 without Hird and Lucas. How many great footballers have never won a flag?

And unlike basketball or even soccer,  you cannot easily just give the ball to the star player. Even in basketball, the NBA is almost always won by teams with at least two stars. Lebron and Jordon both needed other stars to compete.

The fact that even deciding who Melbourne's most important player is, is so difficult is an indication of our depth and hopefully resilience to cope if one of them was absent.

Langdon is the player i could see us struggling most to replace structurally....there is no player on our list with similar attributes.

19 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Langdon is the player i could see us struggling most to replace structurally....there is no player on our list with similar attributes.

Good point, he has turned our previous achilles heel - outside run, into one of our strengths (for at least one half of the ground).

I think we can't win the flag unless we have:

• May, Lever and Salem
• Petracca, Oliver and Langdon
• At least two of TMac, B.Brown, Fritsch and Weid

Probably none of that is too controversial, except that I left Max out and I want to add Jackson and Viney to the list.

4 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

I think we can't win the flag unless we have:

• May, Lever and Salem
• Petracca, Oliver and Langdon
• At least two of TMac, B.Brown, Fritsch and Weid

Probably none of that is too controversial, except that I left Max out and I want to add Jackson and Viney to the list.

It depends how far out we are. If Petracca gets injured in a prelim we can win it. If he gets injured next round it will be much more difficult.

36 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Langdon is the player i could see us struggling most to replace structurally....there is no player on our list with similar attributes.

Dead set correct. I was having this discussion after watching Langdon run up and down the wing against Carlton 

I know I’m oversimplifying but we do have some sort of “ like for like” for almost every player - expect Langdon

10 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Dead set correct. I was having this discussion after watching Langdon run up and down the wing against Carlton 

I know I’m oversimplifying but we do have some sort of “ like for like” for almost every player - expect Langdon

I agree about Langers' importance to us.  But, I would like to see Tommy Mac move to the other wing (where he trained through the Summer), and bring Jackson into the side.  Just think that would help solve our "problem" of too many talls in the forward line, while using Tommy's massive tank to try and replicate Langer's work on the wing.  Thoughts?

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

As a current AFL player said to me recently, if you put Max in the Bulldogs team, they would be unstoppable.

I reckon their rucks are ok (so long as they're not injured).  I think if they had May it is their only missing piece.

8 minutes ago, Vagg said:

I agree about Langers' importance to us.  But, I would like to see Tommy Mac move to the other wing (where he trained through the Summer), and bring Jackson into the side.  Just think that would help solve our "problem" of too many talls in the forward line, while using Tommy's massive tank to try and replicate Langer's work on the wing.  Thoughts?

I don't think TMac would be able to replicate Langdon's. One of Langdons assets is his speed out of the contest. Tmac is pretty slow but has better overhead marking ability. I think if we were to use tmac on the wing it would be similar to how we used Tomlinson last year which i wouldnt call a success story

Gee Vagg it has been a minor miracle that Tmac has played as well as he has as tall forward .he virtually won us the game against the Swans .Why flirt with that sort of form and change things ?

10 minutes ago, Vagg said:

I agree about Langers' importance to us.  But, I would like to see Tommy Mac move to the other wing (where he trained through the Summer), and bring Jackson into the side.  Just think that would help solve our "problem" of too many talls in the forward line, while using Tommy's massive tank to try and replicate Langer's work on the wing.  Thoughts?

 

For me it's less about who is the most important player, and more about who is irreplaceable. 

We have nobody on the list who could replace May if he goes down, because Tomlinson is already out and Petty is his replacement. 

Likewise if Langdon is injured we are stuffed, as nobody on our list holds a candle to his name.

On the other hand, Viney who is arguably one of our best midfielders, is someone we can cover with the likes of JJ, Sparrow or even Gus because the rest of our midfield is so strong. On the other hand, replacing Oliver would be almost impossible. 

You'd argue we would be stuffed without Ben Brown pre season. But now we have loads of depth. If McDonald is injured we can cover for him with 2 very solid tall forwards. 

Systems and defence will get you a long way, even if you are missing some players. But there are certain players on every list that cannot be replaced and their absence would make an enormous difference to the fortunes of their team.

It is also about weight of numbers. Losing one defender or one midfielder is very different to having a lot of injuries in one part of the ground.

 

As mentioned, May and Langdon are key pillars of our structure.

I rate May really, really highly but would almost argue that Langdon has done more to help with our new found confidence than any player. He covers so much ground and his positioning is first class.

The Max at the Bulldogs point is interesting, however I think we have adopted the Hawthorn model of placing less emphasis on centre clearances and the coaches are being a little coy about it

 

28 minutes ago, Jaded said:

replace May if he goes down, because Tomlinson is alread

Tlit wouldnt be ideal but certainly Tmac could maybe not as well but hed go very close. Hate to lose him from up fwd but its good to have options and its not like we dont have other fwds. 

1 hour ago, kallangurdemon said:

Gee Vagg it has been a minor miracle that Tmac has played as well as he has as tall forward .he virtually won us the game against the Swans .Why flirt with that sort of form and change things ?

 

You're probably right.  But, I guess, they could pretty much have one of the four (TMac, Jackson, Weid & BBB) on the bench at any one time.  That way they each effectively play about 75% game time.  When they come on the ground, they are fresher, and we then have just the 3 talls on the ground at any one time.  (Give or take...)

It doesn't matter how good an individual player is they are only one cog in the wheel.

If having an absolute champion on your list translated into premierships we would have won plenty with Robbie Flower.

That one player is often someone the opposition forgets about. For me that player wears number 15. 

There is no right or wrong answer to the issue raised in the OP, because it will vary from week to week depending on the the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition.  However, right now we are in a position of strength, having a very 'even' team, with high caliber (star) players across all lines (see the 10 or so mentioned earlier in this thread), as well as an exemplary list of role players who have shown that they can be relied upon to do their job almost every week (eg. Spargo, Hunt, ANB, Hibberd, Jordon, Rivers, Brayshaw, Kozzie, Jackson etc.).  If we can maintain this ethos we will continue to be in a very good place, but if a couple of players drop off in this area, the structure / system will break (most of us would agree why Melksham was relegated vs Carlton, notwithstanding that we could always use his exceptional foot skills).

Of the 'stars', it's obvious that all of them would be very important in a final, but then, the transition from Tommo to Petty has been seamless, as was Jordon stepping into Viney's role last weekend.

The one ingredient that is incredibly difficult to replace is leadership, so I'd argue that the most difficult players to replace in a final would be Gawn and May.

Let' hope (pray?) that the footy gods continue to be kind to us, and that this discussion becomes academic.

Edited May 20, 20214 yr by Deeoldfart
typo

Wouldn’t underestimate Spargo. 
- adds so much more than “simply Spargo”. 
- forward pressure/tackling/ frees up other more elite players, capacity to snap a goal

 

I think sometimes teams play better without the Star Player, teams can tend to be too "Ablett centric" teams understand when the star is missing they all have to put in that little bit extra, plus when the star player is a forward, it makes them more predictable and easier to coach against.

For mine, Salem. One word: CONSISTENCY.