CHANGES: Rd 08 vs Sydney

[leave it to deever 16,013]

8 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Ins: Weideman, Sparrow and Harmes

Out: Tomlinson, Baker and Jones.

(Petty in if Fritsch is rubbed out)  

Baker and Jones didn't play badly, but I think Baker coming in for Viney affected our midfield, Sparrow & Harmes can play in that role. Jones was being dropped, and again didn't play badly but wasn't great.

ANB on notice.... Chandler and Bedford looking ok in the VFL to put pressure on his place in the team.

Anb wont be on notice. His worse game for sure but Has been very good all year I reckon.

[Dr.D 1,771]

11 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Brown isn't getting dropped.

I agree. I don't think he is getting dropped. But I would, in a heartbeat. many posters here wanted him dropped immediately after the game too but a nights sleep has eased their frustrations I think. 

[drysdale demon 4,193]

2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

I agree. I don't think he is getting dropped. But I would, in a heartbeat. many posters here wanted him dropped immediately after the game too but a nights sleep has eased their frustrations I think. 

The good thing is the posters on this site don't pick the teams.

[Smokey 4,146]

15 hours ago, Kent said:

Chook your dreaming !T MAc was sacked from the backline for very good reasons

Yeah, and that reason was we had no forwards at the time 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

If Brown and T Mc was top heavy and didn't function why is anyone signing up for the idea of Brown and Weid together at AFL level? Even if Fritsch is out that's 2 big lumbering forwards which is at least 1, probably 2 too many.

Have you all been living under rocks for the last 4 years and missed Richmond winning flags based on pressure?

I agree with the general premise (more pressure players) but I'm not sure that combo failed. We were beaten at the contest and had a pretty good conversion rate going forward.

[binman 38,823]

3 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Yeah, and that reason was we had no forwards at the time 

True, but going forward was his last chance saloon.

If it didn't work out as a forward i have no doubt he would have been dropped. Possibly for good. 

Turned the ball over way too often, in part because of poor field kicking, and in part because he often went for high risk, high reward kicks beyond his ability that usually rewarded the opposition.

And he was also prone to frost like exploratory runs up the field, albeit at a much slower pace.

In fact Tmac was the prototype Frost. 

[Docs Demons 1,671]

15 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

The good thing is the posters on this site don't pick the teams.

He will be better for the run remembering has not played for a long time. Fact was we were beaten up around the ball early but as is happening this season we found a way to get back into the game then run away with it. Brown also brought the ball to ground which helped Fritta and Kozzy score. Good signs and as minimal changes as possible. Cover for those injured only. No dropping on form for this game

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,501]

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

I'm honestly happy to have a discussion about Brown. I thought he was very average and I'm not going to understate his missed mark in the last quarter that would've sealed the game or the sloppy high tackle he gave away in the clutch moment of the last quarter as well. couple this with the fact that we kicked away from North Melbourne as soon as Brown went off the ground with the blood rule. Throw in the fact that Weideman was playing better in the Vfl despite Brown being promoted. And throw in the fact that this was our worst performance of the season. Also throw in the fact that Tom Mcdonald wasn't played forward due to Brown (and Tomlinson going down) which is never going to be a long term solution.  So there's about 5 reasons right off the bat. 

What about throwing in the fact that his contest for the pack mark saw the ball end up out the back for Jackson to kick a goal? Or throw in the fact that his presence allowed McDonald to go into defence to replace Tomlinson? Or throw in the fact that it was his first game for the year and the first game with his new teammates? Or that he kicked 2 goals.

  

[dazzledavey36 49,023]

Feel like Ben Brown had an 'almost' game. Could have easily kicked 4 goals. His 3rd shot was inches away from being over and the last quarter he spilled a contested mark in front of the square. Couple of times as well he just couldn't complete 2nd grabs.  I put this all down to playing his first AFL in a long time and getting use to the speed and intensity. These marks will stick in the next couple of weeks.

The other aspect people need to look out for from a team perspective is that several times yesterday Brown was able to draw 2 defenders with him which then release Fritsch to get on the scoreboard like he did. I can guarantee Fritsch doesn't kick those 6 goals yesterday without the work of Brown. We haven't had someone as big as a presence up forward probably since Hogan in 2018 where he was able to take draw defenders and Tom McDonald being able to hit the scoreboard like he did that year with 52 goals. This honestly could really benefit Fritsch, Jackson and Weideman development up forward.

They had a good match up in Ben McKay who is 201cm tall, so he was able to match him for arm reach and height. He'll have an interesting match up on Sydney's tall defender in Tom McCartin who is much shorter at 193cm. 

I think we'll see a much improved performance from Brown this weekend.

[Ted Lasso 16,964]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Feel like Ben Brown had an 'almost' game. Could have easily kicked 4 goals. His 3rd shot was inches away from being over and the last quarter he spilled a contested mark in front of the square. Couple of times as well he just couldn't complete 2nd grabs.  I put this all down to playing his first AFL in a long time and getting use to the speed and intensity. These marks will stick in the next couple of weeks.

The other aspect people need to look out for from a team perspective is that several times yesterday Brown was able to draw 2 defenders with him which then release Fritsch to get on the scoreboard like he did. I can guarantee Fritsch doesn't kick those 6 goals yesterday without the work of Brown. We haven't had someone as big as a presence up forward probably since Hogan in 2018 where he was able to take draw defenders and Tom McDonald being able to hit the scoreboard like he did that year with 52 goals. This honestly could really benefit Fritsch, Jackson and Weideman development up forward.

They had a good match up in Ben McKay who is 201cm tall, so he was able to match him for arm reach and height. He'll have an interesting match up on Sydney's tall defender in Tom McCartin who is much shorter at 193cm. 

I think we'll see a much improved performance from Brown this weekend.

Completely agree, and if Brown isn't in the side i don't think Fritsch kicks six. it's the flow on impact that we will really see. Tom McDonald, Jackson, Fritsch and so on getting lesser match ups because teams are worried about Ben Brown. if he manages to kick a couple of goals and allows others to play well, brings it to ground he's had a good day. i don't recall him getting outmarked at all which is a good measure of a key forward in my opinion. 

In terms of the midfield, i think Gus is playing well on the wing, and wouldn't mind seeing James Jordan backed in with some more time in there due to Vineys absence. he's got a beautiful blend of inside and outside and a great work rate. really rate him 

[Ouch! 2,041]

44 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Anb wont be on notice. His worse game for sure but Has been very good all year I reckon.

I agree 100% he's played well this season, and I love his pressure up in the forward half,  but competition for spots will and should put him on notice when he has an ordinary game like that. If our listed players in the VFL continue to play and train strongly, you don't get too many chances.

... unless you are Melky ?

[Mel Bourne 3,770]

16 hours ago, Jaded said:

You play one bad game and win by 5 goals to go top of the ladder and all the crazies are out of their boxes yelling at the sky. 

[WA Demon Boy 966]

How can people think BBB is going to get dropped? Laughable 

BBB needs a good 2-3 weeks to adjust to the pace of the game too, not only has he missed a heap of footy since last year but the game is only picking up more and more speed. 

As posters have said he will take the #1 key defender and Tmac can have #2 defender and work them overtime. 

At the G there is far more space than at Tassie and BBB deep will be a threat. 

 

[one_demon 826]

----

Edited May 3, 2021 by one_demon

[one_demon 826]

50 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Feel like Ben Brown had an 'almost' game. Could have easily kicked 4 goals. His 3rd shot was inches away from being over and the last quarter he spilled a contested mark in front of the square. 

If he kicked that third goal, the ball would've gone back to the center and the future takes on a different path from that point onwards

[george_on_the_outer 7,028]

The main change we don't want to see is Matthew Nicholls umpiring a Sydney game:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/cats-denied-by-umpires-contentious-call-20210501-p57o2r.html

 

[DeeSpencer 23,313]

1 hour ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I agree with the general premise (more pressure players) but I'm not sure that combo failed. We were beaten at the contest and had a pretty good conversion rate going forward.

The midfield just weren’t winning the ball but at the same time a smaller forward line pressuring to lock the ball in and spreading to move the ball provides cover for the mids and backs.

The forward line with one less tall in the second half moved the ball and locked it forward more efficiently.

Obviously North tired pretty badly but we went from giving up 9 goals in the first half to just 2 goals after half time. Keeping that pressure on has to be our first priority. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,501]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

The midfield just weren’t winning the ball but at the same time a smaller forward line pressuring to lock the ball in and spreading to move the ball provides cover for the mids and backs.

The forward line with one less tall in the second half moved the ball and locked it forward more efficiently.

Obviously North tired pretty badly but we went from giving up 9 goals in the first half to just 2 goals after half time. Keeping that pressure on has to be our first priority. 

On the commentary yesterday, we were given information about each club's "pressure rating" during the game. Anyone know how that's measured? And is it related to individual players' "pressure points" included in the Herald Sun players' stats? 

[Altona-demon 318]

57 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Feel like Ben Brown had an 'almost' game. Could have easily kicked 4 goals. His 3rd shot was inches away from being over and the last quarter he spilled a contested mark in front of the square. Couple of times as well he just couldn't complete 2nd grabs.  I put this all down to playing his first AFL in a long time and getting use to the speed and intensity. These marks will stick in the next couple of weeks.

The other aspect people need to look out for from a team perspective is that several times yesterday Brown was able to draw 2 defenders with him which then release Fritsch to get on the scoreboard like he did. I can guarantee Fritsch doesn't kick those 6 goals yesterday without the work of Brown. We haven't had someone as big as a presence up forward probably since Hogan in 2018 where he was able to take draw defenders and Tom McDonald being able to hit the scoreboard like he did that year with 52 goals. This honestly could really benefit Fritsch, Jackson and Weideman development up forward.

They had a good match up in Ben McKay who is 201cm tall, so he was able to match him for arm reach and height. He'll have an interesting match up on Sydney's tall defender in Tom McCartin who is much shorter at 193cm. 

I think we'll see a much improved performance from Brown this weekend.

I think this is a fantastic post - thanks for that analysis. 

My other thoughts were that the delivery method into forward 50 was down on previous weeks.  We couldn't kick to space, but seemed to kick floaty balls to aerial contests - which I wouldn't classify as a BBB strength.

Wider open space, more direct kicking, and as you say drawing two defenders, let's see how he goes on the "G".  It's very exciting. 

I think the comment that Bedford and Chandler breathing down ANB's neck is very on point, he can't afford too many quiet games with that talent in the 2s. 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

13 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The midfield just weren’t winning the ball but at the same time a smaller forward line pressuring to lock the ball in and spreading to move the ball provides cover for the mids and backs.

The forward line with one less tall in the second half moved the ball and locked it forward more efficiently.

Obviously North tired pretty badly but we went from giving up 9 goals in the first half to just 2 goals after half time. Keeping that pressure on has to be our first priority. 

Yep, I'm with you.

[Superunknown 3,370]

I wonder if playing with his old teammates made things hard for BBB in that they of all people know exactly how to match up on him - strengths and weaknesses from training and time together....

[Dr.D 1,771]

1 hour ago, Docs Demons said:

He will be better for the run remembering has not played for a long time. Fact was we were beaten up around the ball early but as is happening this season we found a way to get back into the game then run away with it. Brown also brought the ball to ground which helped Fritta and Kozzy score. Good signs and as minimal changes as possible. Cover for those injured only. No dropping on form for this game

'bringing the ball to ground'. Jesus, mother of troy. I could bring the ball the ground if that's what u called spilling marks and having a defender spoil everything away.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

 P2J's final call

IN  -     Sam Weideman, Tom Sparrow

Out  -   Oskar Baker, Adam Tomlinson (knee)

 

Tom McDonald to move to CHB with Sam Weideman to come into the team after well and truly earning a spot.

For all the fuss about T Mac's start hes only kicked 9 goals in the 7 games.  The Weid must come in or we risk losing him to another club.

You may now lock the thread.

 

[DeeSpencer 23,313]

31 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

On the commentary yesterday, we were given information about each club's "pressure rating" during the game. Anyone know how that's measured? And is it related to individual players' "pressure points" included in the Herald Sun players' stats? 

I assume the points are based on the above formula. The chasing, closing and physical pressure all are vital in forcing rushed disposal from the opposition. 

[dazzledavey36 49,023]

34 minutes ago, Altona-demon said:

I think this is a fantastic post - thanks for that analysis. 

My other thoughts were that the delivery method into forward 50 was down on previous weeks.  We couldn't kick to space, but seemed to kick floaty balls to aerial contests - which I wouldn't classify as a BBB strength.

Wider open space, more direct kicking, and as you say drawing two defenders, let's see how he goes on the "G".  It's very exciting. 

I think the comment that Bedford and Chandler breathing down ANB's neck is very on point, he can't afford too many quiet games with that talent in the 2s. 

Cheers AD.

I do agree on the delivery, at times it was poor and they seemed to crowd the forward 50 did North. 

I wonder what's the ground size compared to the MCG. Blunstone Arena seems likes a stock standard suburban level ground size wise on TV. I could be wrong though.