The Tom McDonald dilemma

[Grimes Times 1,278]

17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's only so far you can push up until you're on the wing - which means stoppages and congestion - or playing down back.

I can't see Jackson, T Mc, Weid and B Brown in the same side. In fact I can't see 3 of those without Jackson either unless Tom is a full time wingman and I'm not convinced of that.

Tom is running his backside off to get the ball and doing a decent enough job defensively, so I can't see him being dropped right now for Weid and Brown who didn't have a tackle between them at Casey. But one of those will come in to the side then it's about Tom playing consistently well enough to keep his spot from the other option.

I do wonder if we drop Tom relatively early (ie. 2 weeks time not 4 weeks time) to give him more time at Casey to play on the wing. If he dominates on the wing at Casey then he's a different proposition. 

 

16 hours ago, rpfc said:

If we play BB, TMac, SW, and Fritsch forward we will be too tall and won’t be able to keep the ball in like we have. 

TMac Jas to go to the wing he trained on in the summer to support Hunt and Superstar.

If he doesn’t work out there - he might find himself pushed out - that’s footy. He is a tall forward in a top 4 team - he should be getting the ball - it comes in enough; but he is still clanking and not clunking and he is not a natural forward. The other two big boys are.

 

Im not saying it will work for Melbourne but WCE play 3 talls, Kennedy, Darling, Allen, plus 2 rucks NicNat, Vardy.

At some stage we will need to try it. BBrown, Weed, Tmac and Gawn, Jackson. but we need to be very careful not to take away our fwd half pressure which has been a key for us this year. One may just have to miss out??? 

[drdrake 3,203]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Agree completely. TMac will stay in, so only one of the Weed or BB. On Casey form you would probably go for the Weed. 

Minimum change to a winning side. 

Yep, TMac has the spot he keeps it whilst form is good.  M Brown will make way for some one, I think it will be B Brown.  

I don't think B Brown/Weiderman/Jackson/TMac can all fit into the same side, three off them do with Fritsch who really plays a hit up leading forward as well.

[Tarax Club 4,184]

Tom McDonald fit and firing there is no dilemma.

[Fat Tony 5,336]

In terms of talent, TMac, Weideman, Ben Brown, Jackson and Fritsch are all top 10-15 players, so unless we get injuries, we are going to need to experiment with a taller forward line.

TMac played 98% game time yesterday, Jackson 80% and Mitch Brown 79%. Gawn played 90% and Brayshaw 87% and Langdon 90%. Because Gawn and Langdon are so fit, there isn't that many second wing or second ruck minutes.

On Friday, the Eagles played a side including Allen, Kennedy, Darling as forwards. Nic Nat and Vardy in the ruck. Brander and Waterman on the wings/flanks. McGovern, Barrass and Rotham in defence. That’s 9-10 key position players.

So I think you can play a 3 tall forward line but there needs to be a lot of quick small players as well.

I like Brayshaw how is going on the wing but a solution I would trial is to push Fritsch onto the wing and push Brayshaw back to half back. Brayshaw went back against the Cats when May was injured and was very good.

Another experiment worth trialling is Jackson as an onballer in the Blicavs mould.

[Guest]

These are the problems we have been longing to have.

[JJ Haydos 46]

May, Fritta back in - if fit and one of Weid / BBB in this week.  IMO BBB first.  Weid to inconsistant so far.

Out:  Jordan, Petty, Brown - all reasonably unlucky, although JJ looks like he needs a rest.

Tmac to fwd Wing, Brayshaw and Melksham to share JJ's role on ball and fwd flank.

ANB has had his best start to a season, but other than his fwd pressure what does he bring that others don't?  I rate Sparrow much higher.  ANB's disposal is usually very ordinary...

[Fanatique Demon 2,740]

22 minutes ago, JJ Haydos said:

ANB has had his best start to a season, but other than his fwd pressure what does he bring that others don't?  I rate Sparrow much higher.  ANB's disposal is usually very ordinary...

I think many on here underestimate ANB’s value to the team this year. So I  compared these two on the AFL app and see which is the better performer (statistically) this year.  ANB easily wins most comparisons, but his disposal efficiency is 65% cf Sparrow’s 68%. However, ANB averages double the disposals. I’d rather 65% of 15.4 than 68% of 7.4. 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,404]

There is no dilemma if TMac keeps playing well. 
 

Players now must play well every week. Something we have lacked for many many years.....

Edited April 19, 2021 by Sir Why You Little

[D Rev 635]

21 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Replace Jordan in the midfield for Gus. As good as Jordan has been, he hasn’t been great, and hasn’t been to a level Brawshaw has gotten to. I think it’s a no brainer.

I don't think Gus is natural as an outside mid, I liked some of the things he did off the back line

[Demonstone 23,513]

1 hour ago, JJ Haydos said:

Out:  Jordan, Petty, Brown

Welcome aboard, JJ.  Trust you enjoy your Demonland experience and look forward to your input.

A word of warning, however.   Some posters will jump down your throat for spelling JORDON incorrectly.

[D Rev 635]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

In terms of talent, TMac, Weideman, Ben Brown, Jackson and Fritsch are all top 10-15 players, so unless we get injuries, we are going to need to experiment with a taller forward line.

TMac played 98% game time yesterday, Jackson 80% and Mitch Brown 79%. Gawn played 90% and Brayshaw 87% and Langdon 90%. Because Gawn and Langdon are so fit, there isn't that many second wing or second ruck minutes.

On Friday, the Eagles played a side including Allen, Kennedy, Darling as forwards. Nic Nat and Vardy in the ruck. Brander and Waterman on the wings/flanks. McGovern, Barrass and Rotham in defence. That’s 9-10 key position players.

So I think you can play a 3 tall forward line but there needs to be a lot of quick small players as well.

I like Brayshaw how is going on the wing but a solution I would trial is to push Fritsch onto the wing and push Brayshaw back to half back. Brayshaw went back against the Cats when May was injured and was very good.

Another experiment worth trialling is Jackson as an onballer in the Blicavs mould.

 

I think B Brown is still a while off.

You can't discount Weid kicking 7 too much, but it was against a fairly poor team.  I don't think M Brown deserves to stay in and Weid has more of a future than him, so why not get him back?

I dont think we need to experiment too much (5-0) and Fritsch has always played his best up forward. 

I like McDonald on the wing suggestion, he's been covering heaps of ground / being a good outlet target, so it makes sense.  As a winger, he can also provide another tall in defence to help Tomlinson / Lever / Petty (if they all survive). 

Alternatively, I thought Spargo was particularly terrible on the weekend, but McDonald is possibly a bit tall for that spot. Now sure who to come in there.

 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,404]

12 minutes ago, D Rev said:

 

I think B Brown is still a while off.

You can't discount Weid kicking 7 too much, but it was against a fairly poor team.  I don't think M Brown deserves to stay in and Weid has more of a future than him, so why not get him back?

I dont think we need to experiment too much (5-0) and Fritsch has always played his best up forward. 

I like McDonald on the wing suggestion, he's been covering heaps of ground / being a good outlet target, so it makes sense.  As a winger, he can also provide another tall in defence to help Tomlinson / Lever / Petty (if they all survive). 

Alternatively, I thought Spargo was particularly terrible on the weekend, but McDonald is possibly a bit tall for that spot. Now sure who to come in there.

 

 

Who matches up best against Richmond 

That is what i want to see

[deelusions from afar 1,893]

4 hours ago, Grimes Times said:

 

Im not saying it will work for Melbourne but WCE play 3 talls, Kennedy, Darling, Allen, plus 2 rucks NicNat, Vardy.

At some stage we will need to try it. BBrown, Weed, Tmac and Gawn, Jackson. but we need to be very careful not to take away our fwd half pressure which has been a key for us this year. One may just have to miss out??? 

I agree - it could become a real weapon.

Where I think we are a bit different is that we also play Fritsch forward (who plays like a key forward) and Melksham (who has never been a good defensive pressure player).

Maybe (what I'm hoping) is that we can still find a way to make it work due to Jackson's ability to play anywhere and TMac's incredible endurance which allows them both to play further up the field.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

26 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Welcome aboard, JJ.  Trust you enjoy your Demonland experience and look forward to your input.

A word of warning, however.   Some posters will jump down your throat for spelling JORDON incorrectly.

Just a rreeeaaalll friendly shot across the bow there @demonstone eh ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,404]

12 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

I agree - it could become a real weapon.

Where I think we are a bit different is that we also play Fritsch forward (who plays like a key forward) and Melksham (who has never been a good defensive pressure player).

Maybe (what I'm hoping) is that we can still find a way to make it work due to Jackson's ability to play anywhere and TMac's incredible endurance which allows them both to play further up the field.

Melksham kicks goals dependably if he is in the right spot. He is not built like a tank

You can’t expect him to be a brute tackler. I am not saying he is soft, but he is in the side as a finisher

[deelusions from afar 1,893]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Melksham kicks goals dependably if he is in the right spot. He is not built like a tank

You can’t expect him to be a brute tackler. I am not saying he is soft, but he is in the side as a finisher

That's true - but if you have a number of tall key forwards around him who are also finishers, Melksham is going to need to do his bit in this area to stay in the side.  This is in the same way that they've asked Kozzie, Spargo and ANB - none of whom are heavy. 

Interestingly, both McDonald and Fritsch have noticeably improved this area of their game this year - both with much higher tackle numbers than previously.

For Jake I suspect it's more about the willingness to run both ways - to chase and close down space.  If the pressure for spots forces Melk to lift his game in this area, then we will go up another gear we didn't know we had!

[Flower Magic 776]

Tom was genuinely hungry for the ball on Saturday. I thought he played a fantastic game, our second best behind Gawn IMHO. He covered a massive amount of territory, one minute he was down forward, I looked away and suddenly he was in the backline. One of the great things about being at the game is that you see things not obvious on TV. He just kept running all day, either clunking marks or making a contest. As one who thought he might be past his best last year, I'm delighted to see the real TMac standing tall. I'd back putting him on the wing, moving Brayshaw into the middle and giving Jordon a rest. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,404]

12 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

That's true - but if you have a number of tall key forwards around him who are also finishers, Melksham is going to need to do his bit in this area to stay in the side.  This is in the same way that they've asked Kozzie, Spargo and ANB - none of whom are heavy. 

Interestingly, both McDonald and Fritsch have noticeably improved this area of their game this year - both with much higher tackle numbers than previously.

For Jake I suspect it's more about the willingness to run both ways - to chase and close down space.  If the pressure for spots forces Melk to lift his game in this area, then we will go up another gear we didn't know we had!

I am not saying he shouldn’t run hard both ways. 
But a lot of people on here expect Melksham to lay heaps of tackles. That is not his game. He has only just recovered from a Hamstring injury, but he certainly improved after quarter time

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

9 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I'm not sure about this, I can see TMac moving up to a high half forward/offensive wing position, while LJ is critial in Max playing so well, it's about finding LJ a role when he's not rucking, but resting in the forward line isn't the worst thing. Weid and BBB are the only true stay at home forwards, and we're at all time going to have 1 on the bench, so only 3 will be on the ground at any time.

On the point about our smalls being a big part of why we've started so well, TMac is the equal leader of inside 50 tackles (with Kossie) for the whole league (Spargo, ANB, Jordon and Viney are all high up in that stat as well), to highlight that point, so as long as Weid and BBB come in with TMac's mindset to tackle and chase, the balance shouldn't be thrown out too much. 

Not taking anything away from TMac and his willingness to tackle but I think he is the beneficiary of the work of our smalls. Spargo and Kozzy in particular generate tackles by running the opposition into trouble.

The big guys can tackle but they aren't generating tackles. We need as many guys harrassing as possible. Corralling a player is more important than the tackle itself and this can make tackle stats slightly misleading.

Locking the ball in your front half is about speed, agility and positioning. Fwiw, I think three smalls in the forward half at all times is the golden ticket. It's why I think Melksham needs to find a new role - he breaks our system because he doesn't have the agility to corral.

Jackson resting forward with Brown and the Weed just doesn't feel right to me. I imagine that's where we'll end up, so I hope I'm wrong!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Watching On the Couch, they are talking about how the Bulldogs have three key forwards and how it causes headaches for opposition teams.

Imagine the headache we can cause with Weideman, BBB, McDonald, Fritsch and Gawn/Jackson.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

4 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

I think many on here underestimate ANB’s value to the team this year.

Goody gave a special mention to ANB tonight on 360. Was talking about the leaders in the club, he brought up the core group around Gawn being Viney, Lever, May and ANB.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

So nice to have the problems of millionaires for once. 

[DeeSpencer 26,649]

48 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Watching On the Couch, they are talking about how the Bulldogs have three key forwards and how it causes headaches for opposition teams.

Imagine the headache we can cause with Weideman, BBB, McDonald, Fritsch and Gawn/Jackson.

3 is working very well for them. 

But they dropped Mitch Wallis who was their undersized marking forward last year (and vice captain this year) because he didn't get near it and wasn't providing ground level pressure. So they drew the line at 3. 

And they have great skills and move the ball beautifully around until they can find their tall targets. We will likely be a bit messier and rely on contest and pressure to create chances.

McDonald's tank and Fritsch and Jackson's mobility makes 4 taller players a potential option, but I doubt we'll ever see 5.

 

[titan_uranus 25,229]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Watching On the Couch, they are talking about how the Bulldogs have three key forwards and how it causes headaches for opposition teams.

Imagine the headache we can cause with Weideman, BBB, McDonald, Fritsch and Gawn/Jackson.

It's far too many inside 50 at the same time.

I could see Brown, Weideman and Fritsch, with Jackson/Gawn resting down there after rucking, leaving the other spots for Spargo, Pickett and ANB. Requires TMac to play higher up the ground though.

[Adam The God 30,687]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:19 PM, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Tom McDonald had a great game vs Hawthorn, so much so he cannot be dropped. However Sam Weideman played a superb game in the VFL (7 goals), Then there is Ben Brown who kicked 3 goals in the VFL and cannot be left to mold in the VFL as he is a proven AFL goal scorer.

Does Tom McDonald swing back and fill the void of Steven May?

Playing all 3 in the forward half would be a massive risk especially given the next game vs Richmond is a night game which brings potential for dewy conditions. Sam Weideman would have to get the nod ahead of Ben Brown at this stage if picking one of the two but leaving Ben Brown in the VFL isnt ideal.

The only error McDonald made all day was an easy kick out of defence to Gus. He missed him and kicked it on the full. For whatever reasons he's a dreadful kick in the back half. Playing Tom back would be a nightmare waiting to happen. Richmond would take him to the cleaners.

I'd bring in Fritsch and look at dropping Brown or ANB. I felt ANB was one of our weakest. I'm watching the replay right now and he's was terrible in the first quarter.

Edited April 19, 2021 by A F