Winger, winger, chicken dinner?!

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Of major concern going into another season we seem to have found no answer for the opposite wing to Langdon. It was only a year ago where we had something like 16 players tried in that position throughout the year.   SO far this year we have rolled through Tmac/Harmes/Sparrow/Jones... none of these guys fills me with any confidence they can play the role for long periods.

We recruited Rosman perhaps for the wing role but it may take him a year or two to find his feet, and he may not be the answer.  Definitely not for the short term anyway.  

We need to find a player that is going to embrace the role and play there for more than few minutes in a game.  I don't believe we will go anywhere if we just have a revolving wing filled by whoever.

We had the chance to address this deficiency during the drafts but it seemed trading Tmac held us up from getting anything done.

Who are the options for this opposite wing?

Bailey Fritsch - runs both ways hard, great mark, lovely kick.  Tackling is probably bit below par but i can see he has many of the attributes needed.  He likes space, it could be a good fit for him.

Harmes/Jones - Putting these guys in same category, they should never be played on a wing, both give very little in terms of offence or for that matter defence.

Tmac - Not sure where his best position is at all these days, he barely looks like an AFL level footballer.

Bowey/Laurie - Not sure either of these guys will be the answer either.  Maybe Bowey but he looks more like a flanker to me.

Baker - Does not seem to have the tank to play the role for long periods.  Works hard to get forward, but does not seem to work nearly as hard going back.  I don't think he is the answer either.

Petracca - Can play mid or forward,  wish we had few more of him.  Could be dynamic wing who helps the connection all over the ground, can win his own ball, can mark, can beat many opponents one on one.  He would be a nightmare match up for any wing.

Oliver- Would be great for the position but he is needed around the ball.  Best to keep him there!

It is a massive conundrum for our coaching staff overall, we can't just keep rolling players through there as stop gaps.  After going through nearly everyone on our list (not all mentioned here) i believe Fritsch and Petracca are our best options.  I would like to see them rotated/switched between our half forward line and wing at around the 50/50 ratio.  Have one of them forward at all times and the other running his guts out up and down the wing.  

We need to get creative and find the answers, any viable solutions that is not going to rob us of too much in other areas of the ground?  What would you do in the coaches position?

[John Demonic 4,917]

Tomlinson, but with Spargo riding on his shoulders giving him directions

[Doug Reemer 992]

10 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Of major concern going into another season we seem to have found no answer for the opposite wing to Langdon. It was only a year ago where we had something like 16 players tried in that position throughout the year.   SO far this year we have rolled through Tmac/Harmes/Sparrow/Jones... none of these guys fills me with any confidence they can play the role for long periods.

We recruited Rosman perhaps for the wing role but it may take him a year or two to find his feet, and he may not be the answer.  Definitely not for the short term anyway.  

We need to find a player that is going to embrace the role and play there for more than few minutes in a game.  I don't believe we will go anywhere if we just have a revolving wing filled by whoever.

We had the chance to address this deficiency during the drafts but it seemed trading Tmac held us up from getting anything done.

Who are the options for this opposite wing?

Bailey Fritsch - runs both ways hard, great mark, lovely kick.  Tackling is probably bit below par but i can see he has many of the attributes needed.  He likes space, it could be a good fit for him.

Harmes/Jones - Putting these guys in same category, they should never be played on a wing, both give very little in terms of offence or for that matter defence.

Tmac - Not sure where his best position is at all these days, he barely looks like an AFL level footballer.

Bowey/Laurie - Not sure either of these guys will be the answer either.  Maybe Bowey but he looks more like a flanker to me.

Baker - Does not seem to have the tank to play the role for long periods.  Works hard to get forward, but does not seem to work nearly as hard going back.  I don't think he is the answer either.

Petracca - Can play mid or forward,  wish we had few more of him.  Could be dynamic wing who helps the connection all over the ground, can win his own ball, can mark, can beat many opponents one on one.  He would be a nightmare match up for any wing.

Oliver- Would be great for the position but he is needed around the ball.  Best to keep him there!

It is a massive conundrum for our coaching staff overall, we can't just keep rolling players through there as stop gaps.  After going through nearly everyone on our list (not all mentioned here) i believe Fritsch and Petracca are our best options.  I would like to see them rotated/switched between our half forward line and wing at around the 50/50 ratio.  Have one of them forward at all times and the other running his guts out up and down the wing.  

We need to get creative and find the answers, any viable solutions that is not going to rob us of too much in other areas of the ground?  What would you do in the coaches position?

I would be giving Baker first crack at it. Just needs game time!

[dazzledavey36 49,414]

Watched Tom Phillips rack up 30 touches for the Hawks and provide great drive through the midfield.  

Still 24 years of old and was traded for pick in the 60s. When we missed out on Isaac Smith the club came out and said that they'd put the trust in the current players  on the list. So in other words we had no plan B.. this was perfect opportunity to change the dynamic of our midfield up and we just didn't bother at all. 

I then see Nathan Jones back on a wing yesterday and was absolutely gobsmacked that we've seen 0 improvement in this capacity over the summer.

Baker is not the answer. Ordinary footballer who goes missing for about 3 quarters.

 

 

[drdrake 3,057]

And the one we have can't kick, great runner and can get the ball just can't hit a target

[BW511 2,291]

I'll just add, Baker is absolutely useless in the air.

What really kills me is the wings have been a weakness of ours for many, many years now.

I'd argue that a high quality pair of wingers would do more for us structurally than anyone else we have recruited in the last 5 years, maybe bar May.

 

We are heading into 2021 in a worse position than this time last year, so I'd love to know how anyone expects us to be a Top 8, let alone Top 4 team

 

 

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,465]

Tomlinson to the wing which is why we threw a 4 year contract at him. He played an outstanding prelim final in 2017 on a wing and did have a 34 possession game last year against Hawthorn in the Marsh series.

Petty to take Tomlinson's role in defence.

Baker to play at Casey.

Fritsch to have a tracking device on his ankle that goes off every time he leaves the forward 50 metre ark. He's our only legit forward option in the early rounds and must stay there.

 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

19 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Watched Tom Phillips rack up 30 touches for the Hawks and provide great drive through the midfield.  

 

 

 

Massive mistake if we didnt go after him.  Maybe we did and he wasn't interested.  He would have been a perfect partner for Langdon. Oh well, at least we got Tomlinson.

 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

An embarrassment to say the least. 

[rjay 24,067]

26 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

I would be giving Baker first crack at it. Just needs game time!

He doesn't straight line the ball and is useless in a contest...that's just one issue.

19 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I'll just add, Baker is absolutely useless in the air.

That also...

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Watched Tom Phillips rack up 30 touches for the Hawks and provide great drive through the midfield.  

Still 24 years of old and was traded for pick in the 60s. When we missed out on Isaac Smith the club came out and said that they'd put the trust in the current players  on the list. So in other words we had no plan B.. this was perfect opportunity to change the dynamic of our midfield up and we just didn't bother at all. 

I then see Nathan Jones back on a wing yesterday and was absolutely gobsmacked that we've seen 0 improvement in this capacity over the summer.

Baker is not the answer. Ordinary footballer who goes missing for about 3 quarters.

 

 

Spot on...i was dismayed we missed out on Isaac.  We did not even seem interested in Phillips who is a walk up start in that position and would make us lot stronger immediately.   We missed the boat on both both these guys.

Baker does not really seem suited to the position.  Maybe a HFF but does not seem a natural for wing position.

Jones being in the team let alone wing is really concerning to me.  All teams are quick nowadays, you can't select too many plodders or you chasing tail all day...like last few times we played WB.  Teams like WB and Port/Brisbane are going to tear us apart with their legspeed all over the ground if we continue to pick our slower/older players.  Going to be a long year!  

Not sure the players believe in Goodwin either, there just seems to be something missing. 

Even more concerning is that we have to park ego's.  Seemed this was always an issue of drinking their own bathwater and putting in a stinker after a win.  We have achieved zilch as a footy team in a very long time.  Achieved nothing with current crop unless you count top 50 players, which we have a sprinkling of.

Our mob needs to get angry to play well, when we are bullying teams and making it all bash and crash we bring the skill levels down and can match it with anyone.  When we are not angry teams just waltz on by. We seem to lack the intensity required over 4 quarters.  We are a laughing stock of a team with some very good players among us....Surely it is time we played like a team that is hungry/angry and doing everything they can to bridge the gap.  

[dazzledavey36 49,414]

2 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Spot on...i was dismayed we missed out on Isaac.  We did not even seem interested in Phillips who is a walk up start in that position and would make us lot stronger immediately.   We missed the boat on both both these guys.

Baker does not really seem suited to the position.  Maybe a HFF but does not seem a natural for wing position.

Jones being in the team let alone wing is really concerning to me.  All teams are quick nowadays, you can't select too many plodders or you chasing tail all day...like last few times we played WB.  Teams like WB and Port/Brisbane are going to tear us apart with their legspeed all over the ground if we continue to pick our slower/older players.  Going to be a long year!  

Not sure the players believe in Goodwin either, there just seems to be something missing. 

Even more concerning is that we have to park ego's.  Seemed this was always an issue of drinking their own bathwater and putting in a stinker after a win.  We have achieved zilch as a footy team in a very long time.  Achieved nothing with current crop unless you count top 50 players, which we have a sprinkling of.

Our mob needs to get angry to play well, when we are bullying teams and making it all bash and crash we bring the skill levels down and can match it with anyone.  When we are not angry teams just waltz on by. We seem to lack the intensity required over 4 quarters.  We are a laughing stock of a team with some very good players among us....Surely it is time we played like a team that is hungry/angry and doing everything they can to bridge the gap.  

We put all our eggs in thr Isaac Smith basket and the moment we missed out, we simply had no plan B. It was well documented that Phillips was being shopped in the open market and every footy journo and media outlet said that it was the perfect fit for us. And it would have been.

The arrogance in this football continues to amaze me.

[John Demonic 4,917]

Imagine thinking one of our VFL level depth was a safer gamble than paying Isaac Smith his 3rd year of a contract while he sat on the sidelines dying of old age.

Glad the club made a serious move to get him, but echo sentiments of other comments, it's a contradiction to then say we'll rely on what we already have in-house.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by John Demonic

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

19 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Tomlinson to the wing which is why we threw a 4 year contract at him. He played an outstanding prelim final in 2017 on a wing and did have a 34 possession game last year against Hawthorn in the Marsh series.

Petty to take Tomlinson's role in defence.

Baker to play at Casey.

Fritsch to have a tracking device on his ankle that goes off every time he leaves the forward 50 metre ark. He's our only legit forward option in the early rounds and must stay there.

 

Tomlinson is an interesting one and i am not sure why he he gets canned by so many here. He is basically playing Oscars role and doing it much better than Oscar ever did.  i recall that game during Marsh series and we had around 60 touches between Langdon/Tomlinson and we looked much more threatening as a team.  We only played Tomlinson there for 1 or 2 more games before experimenting with him back.  We seem to occasionally try different things regarding setups but very quickly revert to some other BS when it does not work out for short period.  We need to persevere and teach some players how to play the position.

Thinking logically about it i am leaning more towards Petracca playing the wing role.  He can be an option on the outside at centre bounces and has the tank to run all day. Really is a conundrum trying to come up with the solution without thinking outside the square.  We seem to have tried nearly everyone over last few years in this position!

[Little Goffy 12,793]

It's a curiosity that in a team which is collectively supposed to be on the better end of fitness we have so few players with fitness and relentless mobility as their individual strength.

It's particularly frustrating that the possible options who fit the role in some ways each have limitations (sustained speed, height, general form collapse) which rules them out. 

My read of the winger role is that you have to be at least reasonable in most areas to be effective. Even Langdon suffers disproportionately from his one weakness.

Best solution I can think of without some player stepping up is to adapt our structure to keep one side of the ground as more open for Langdon to enjoy while we keep tge other side more congested. It means accepting that we give up some territory whenever opposition switches play but if we manage it consciously that's probably better than the frequent accidental giving up of territory just because our mids can't concentrate for 120mins!

 

[godees 685]

21 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We put all our eggs in thr Isaac Smith basket and the moment we missed out, we simply had no plan B. It was well documented that Phillips was being shopped in the open market and every footy journo and media outlet said that it was the perfect fit for us. And it would have been.

The arrogance in this football continues to amaze me.

Whilst I was hoping we'd go after Phillips, I suspect it was a salary cap management decision. He would come cheap from a picks perspective but his existing contract may not have been as attractive (with Petracca, Oliver and others coming up for re-contracting).

[Half forward flank 1,022]

36 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Tomlinson to the wing which is why we threw a 4 year contract at him. He played an outstanding prelim final in 2017 on a wing and did have a 34 possession game last year against Hawthorn in the Marsh series.

Petty to take Tomlinson's role in defence.

Baker to play at Casey.

Fritsch to have a tracking device on his ankle that goes off every time he leaves the forward 50 metre ark. He's our only legit forward option in the early rounds and must stay there.

 

I am not doubting you BBP on Tomlinsons prelim game but would really need to watch the game to see if he played wing all game in any sort of traditional style. How we fell for him being a winger is an indicment on recruiters and coaches. I have hope for Baker above others. I wonder if some of these blokes need some home truths. Look mate, you are a bloody ordinary footballer unless you do more work in defence. anyone born with speed can run forward in a straight line. Keep it simple and direct. Hit their, I am an AFL player egos.

[Little Goffy 12,793]

A side note on the suggestions of Petracca; tragically we only have one of him, but so long as he is mixing between the guts and the forward line he is an opponent that the opposition has to think about in their plan for both, and in both areas he's a nightmare match up. Put him on the wing and even if he does it just as well as his current role, the damage won't be as great. We don't need one of the game's top players out there, just someone appropriate for the role.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Just now, godees said:

Whilst I was hoping we'd go after Phillips, I suspect it was a salary cap management decision. He would come cheap from a picks perspective but his existing contract may not have been as attractive (with Petracca, Oliver and others coming up for re-contracting).

Quite possibly the case!  Found it interesting when Viney was interested in heading to Geelong during trade time.  They were prepared to pay him around the 500K mark.  We were prepared to renew him 4 years at 650K+.  You then add in players like Brayshaw who is on over 600K, Harmes on about 450K, Tmac on well over 700K.  None of these guys should be in in our highest paid players.  IMO we missed a trick offloading Viney and getting in a wing who would have been far more valuable to our team.

[Demon Dude 425]

40 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Tomlinson to the wing which is why we threw a 4 year contract at him. He played an outstanding prelim final in 2017 on a wing and did have a 34 possession game last year against Hawthorn in the Marsh series.

Petty to take Tomlinson's role in defence.

Baker to play at Casey.

Fritsch to have a tracking device on his ankle that goes off every time he leaves the forward 50 metre ark. He's our only legit forward option in the early rounds and must stay there.

 

yep i came here to say the same thing. Tomlinson was better than anyone we've tried on the wing since and he can run all day so wont need to rotate much. move him back there, put Petty into defence, and Baker goes out.

[Bay Riffin 1,427]

37 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Our mob needs to get angry to play well, when we are bullying teams and making it all bash and crash we bring the skill levels down and can match it with anyone.  When we are not angry teams just waltz on by. We seem to lack the intensity required over 4 quarters.  We are a laughing stock of a team with some very good players among us....Surely it is time we played like a team that is hungry/angry and doing everything they can to bridge the gap.  

very well summised. In 2018 our intensity and ability to run out games was higher. Once we drop off teams start to cut us up. last year we werent a laughing stock coming 9th, but we just don't win easy games with skill that can sustain a team all season. Until this year our recruitment has been so one sided on competitive beasts even our midfielders like Sparrow and Jordan lack flair. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

4 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

A side note on the suggestions of Petracca; tragically we only have one of him, but so long as he is mixing between the guts and the forward line he is an opponent that the opposition has to think about in their plan for both, and in both areas he's a nightmare match up. Put him on the wing and even if he does it just as well as his current role, the damage won't be as great. We don't need one of the game's top players out there, just someone appropriate for the role.

Agree he is of so much value in the mid or forward role.  It is hard to find a solution without robbing another area of the ground.  Maybe Joel Smith is the answer, he is quick, amazing closing speed, can take a mark. Just not sure he has the football smarts.

Hunt should be the obvious one to play wing but for some reason does not seem to stay involved in games 100%, he drifts in and out of games, perhaps not big enough tank for role though either.

There must be a solution in-house!

[BDA 20,678]

Hard to fathom why we ignored Phillips when he was such an obvious solution to a problem area. If he's good enough for Alastair Clarkson then he's good enough for us. He was pretty good on Saturday against an admittedly poor North. I can only assume he either didn't want to join or there were cap constraints.

I know there's a season to play out before then but we have to offer up a midfielder this trade period. Perhaps Brayshaw and a pick for Kelly? We've tried to make do with what we have and it just isn't working.

[Demon3 2,541]

This is where this club annoys me so much, they went hard at Isaac Smith then when he chose Geelong they decided to stop the search.. Tom Phillips was there, he was there for the taking, he would have complimented this side so much. If We are trotting out Oscar Baker or Tom Mcdonlad as our wing then we are stuft.

St Kilda went and targeted players, they got them, Bulldogs did the same, the Bombers and the Hawks do it.. we think getting Brown was all we needed.. its an absolute farce and the club is selling hope and finals.. please.. just get professional.. our coach wears shorts and looks like he hadn't slept for 5 weeks yesterday.. is just a poorly run, unprofessional football CLUB.

Just a bit fed up with it all.

[Demon Dude 425]

it also concerns me the club talking up Rosman as a future winger. he was a speculative pick and looks a long way off it at this stage, and i doubt he will ever have the footy smarts to play the role at the level required anyway.

meanwhile we recruit a natural winger in Bowey then decide to play him as a defender.