POSTGAME: Practice Match vs Bulldogs

[Half forward flank 1,022]

33 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Lacking AFL fitness.

well, get him AFL fit playing in a practice match.

[Waltham33 475]

7 hours ago, deejammin' said:

I’m not too disappointed as it’s a practise game and the many, many players we had out make it difficult to judge.

However, it is worrying that our pressure and effort were so lax, that our structure collapsed so regularly, that our tackles were broken so easily, that almost all our goals were from chaos ball situations, that our ability to move the ball is still so stagnant, that our skills are still so terrible and that so many players getting a chance to play for a spot were so very ordinary.

 

Agree with this, its is pre-season although no question in my mind Dogs should be aiming for the flag.  I also hope Dees players didntt fall into the trap of falling back on we will be ok when Oliver, Weid, Viney etc are back.  

[Kent 2,909]

8 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Is it your backhand? 

Too much stoking forehand and backhand i would think?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,817]

With regards to defensive pressure, we once again pick and choose which games to bring it. Last week our pressure was excellent against Richmond and we had a real appetite for the contest.

Meanwhile yesterday it was deplorable and that 3rd quarter was about as bad a quarter I’ve seen in terms of pressure and basic skill execution. The Dogs won about a dozen holding the ball calls while we were lucky to have won one.

I expect this trend to continue and it will cost us a place in the finals.

If Goodwin’s instructions were to treat this game as a casual stroll in the park, then he’d be well advised to let the concerned members know.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bring-Back-Powell

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

33 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

well, get him AFL fit playing in a practice match.

That's exactly what they're doing mate..... he played for Casey yesterday. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

That's exactly what they're doing mate..... he played for Casey yesterday. 

Glad to hear it. Not that I think he is any sort of answer as a forward.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

9 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

Have to agree Kev. Unfortunately our 1-3 year players are either just not good enough or are not trained properly. I think it maybe the former. Most other teams have a smokey that comes to light in the praccy games but not us. I cannot see anything in these players to give me confidence going forward and boy they missed tackles or gave stupid frees away. Our depth is poor. Adding to this is the mid range players like Jones, Harmes, Tomlinson, Jetta, AVB ( who was pathetic) and of course the normal culprit in Spargo. These guys gave us nothing and when the team needed them big time to stand up. We may get about 3 players back for the first round but will still need a couple of these mid range or 1-3 year players in the side which to me is a worry. Again it will be our bottom 6 or so players that will drag us down.

I will give LJ some slack but he also needs to start showing me he can be the star we are waiting for. Dogs just pushed him off the ball to easily for my likening and he is not jumping for someone who is supposed to have a great leap.

Finally TMac has to stay. We just do not have anyone else.

 

 

Also on TMac. He must stay in as we have nothing else at present

This post is worrying because it does highlight a high number of average players. I would add Hunt to that list.

Thats seven 75 plus gamers that dont deliver.

[BAMF 4,349]

I hate that look that Tomlinson constantly has on his face. Looks like something terrible has happened and he is about to run and tell his mum.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

Yesterday was just further confirmation to me that we're nowhere near it.

I've read the same demonlanders for decades continue to chalk up excuses regarding practice matches. Everyone understands they're practice matches. And everyone is aware we had some big name players out including some important midfielders.

But for anyone with even the faintest idea about the game would have been able to see that yesterday only highlighted what Goodwin and co have refused to address. That is, the shape of our list.

Aside from the Ben Brown signing, we have done very little in the way of adding to our list and mixing up our skill set through the middle of the ground. I saw the same [censored] yesterday that I've seen for going on three years now.

Do supporters ever feel a sense of deja vu when watching us lose? It's Groundhog day.

If you watch back even at last year's game against the Dogs, you will see an eerily similar game to yesterday's. And we had our first choice midfield back then.

This is completely about list balance and Goodwin continues to play one of the most one-dimensional game styles, executed by some of the most one-dimensional players through the middle of the ground.

There is almost no point of difference when I look at the way we play. Very little creativity and a lot of really really dumb play. Dumb decisions, slow reactions and extremely poor execution.

Go back and look at some of the positioning from Harmes at contests, look at where Max constantly hit the ball, look at the way we have three players run at the same opposition player with the ball allowing easy handballs to space that make us look like witches hats. These are a few of so many examples.

Look at our entries still. Look at the number of players we have who cannot even tackle correctly. It's not one thing. It's a bunch of vanilla players continuously making mistakes. 

The dogs have a blend of inside/outside players who are clean, creative and extremely smart. 

That is and was the difference with us and most sides above us and Goodwin is simply kidding himself if he thinks we're going anywhere with his narrow minded "win it at the contest, high pressure forward-half game". Opposition sides are too smart and constantly make us look second rate.

Pressure Melbourne at the contest and they will give it up. It's as easy as that.

Posters might think I'm overreacting. Totally fine. But the proof will be in the pudding come the end of the year.

We might beat some sides with our contested brand here and there sure, but the game has evolved and teams who are better balanced and have superior skill will tear us apart in one quarter like the dogs did in the third again yesterday.

Prove me wrong Melbourne.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JimmyGadson

[poita 3,902]

I thought our effort was generally okay, but we looked miles off the Bulldogs' standard for the most part. If not for May and Lever, the dogs win that game by 12 goals plus.

The big concern is the phenomenal number of times that we were in clear position to make a tackle and force a stoppage, and they would just break free and offload to the guy running past on the outside. They were too big, too strong, too quick and too well drilled. Obviously that changes a bit when Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney and Salem return, but it is hardly surprising when we've spent the past four years recruiting slow midgets.

We're in a world of trouble if we are relying on any of Spargo, Bedford, Bowey, Vandenberg, Jordon, Hunt, Sparrow, Baker, Chandler, Jetta or Lockhart this year. Too small, too slow and / or poorly skilled.

The Good: May and Lever excellent, Petracca looks set for another big year, Langdon's workrate is elite, Fritsch made the most of his opportunities, Harmes is much better in the midfield and Neal-Bullen showed a bit.

The Bad: Jackson was smashed when in the ruck and struggled as a leading forward; McDonald kept asking for the high ball instead of leading at the ball carrier; Gawn's ruck work was poor; we lack quality small defenders; and we lack midfield depth.

The Ugly: Our forward line was completely dysfunctional, other than Fritsch; our game plan is flawed and we don't have the personnel to implement it; our players are slow and reactionary; our inexperienced third and fourth year players are miles off AFL standard.

We're a bottom six side on that performance with or without returning players.

[spalding 1,128]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

With regards to defensive pressure, we once again pick and choose which games to bring it. Last week our pressure was excellent against Richmond and we had a real appetite for the contest.

Meanwhile yesterday it was deplorable and that 3rd quarter was about as bad a quarter I’ve seen in terms of pressure and basic skill execution. The Dogs won about a dozen holding the ball calls while we were lucky to have won one.

I expect this trend to continue and it will cost us a place in the finals.

If Goodwin’s instructions were to treat this game as a casual stroll in the park, then he’d be well advised to let the concerned members know.

the comment about holding the ball was very valid - and I know it was only a practice game (for all concerned including the umps), but geez it was frustrating that the Dogs seem allowed to drop the ball in the tackle (or at least the few that did stick) but we got pinged every time 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,817]

5 minutes ago, spalding said:

the comment about holding the ball was very valid - and I know it was only a practice game (for all concerned including the umps), but geez it was frustrating that the Dogs seem allowed to drop the ball in the tackle (or at least the few that did stick) but we got pinged every time 

I notice the holding the ball disparity too but the Dogs cracked in way harder than we did yesterday. 

[DeeZee 7,378]

If we are relying on Tom McDonald  up forward we are in big big trouble.

We need to try a Petty,  Mitch Brown combo because unless Max drifts down there our forward line has no presence at all.

[Sydee 4,413]

The way I see things 
- We fielded our worst starting midfield in quite a few years 
- They have a very strong midfield (one of the best) and absolutely smashed us in clearances despite us winning the hit out count
- This being the case we were always going to struggle
- They are well coached , fit and have speed across the ground (not sure we tick those three boxes, arguably only one)
- We still have nothing like a functioning forward line. Whether or not the return of Brown and/or Weid will make significant difference we will have to wait and see - personally I have limited confidence in either of them to make a meaningful difference on a consistent basis 
- We have some players that IMO just aren't good enough and should spend the majority of the year at Casey and if they don't improve should be moved on at years end
- Goodwin saying he thinks this team is well prepared & capable of going deep into the finals seems a very long way off to me
- The sky is not falling yet - but this group is showing all the tell tale signs from previous seasons of inconsistency and inability to stop teams from effectively icing a game in one quarter

 

[John Demonic 5,789]

17 minutes ago, poita said:

I thought our effort was generally okay, but we looked miles off the Bulldogs' standard for the most part. If not for May and Lever, the dogs win that game by 12 goals plus.

The big concern is the phenomenal number of times that we were in clear position to make a tackle and force a stoppage, and they would just break free and offload to the guy running past on the outside. They were too big, too strong, too quick and too well drilled. Obviously that changes a bit when Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney and Salem return, but it is hardly surprising when we've spent the past four years recruiting slow midgets.

We're in a world of trouble if we are relying on any of Spargo, Bedford, Bowey, Vandenberg, Jordon, Hunt, Sparrow, Baker, Chandler, Jetta or Lockhart this year. Too small, too slow and / or poorly skilled.

The Good: May and Lever excellent, Petracca looks set for another big year, Langdon's workrate is elite, Fritsch made the most of his opportunities, Harmes is much better in the midfield and Neal-Bullen showed a bit.

The Bad: Jackson was smashed when in the ruck and struggled as a leading forward; McDonald kept asking for the high ball instead of leading at the ball carrier; Gawn's ruck work was poor; we lack quality small defenders; and we lack midfield depth.

The Ugly: Our forward line was completely dysfunctional, other than Fritsch; our game plan is flawed and we don't have the personnel to implement it; our players are slow and reactionary; our inexperienced third and fourth year players are miles off AFL standard.

We're a bottom six side on that performance with or without returning players.

Bit harsh. We're a bottom 6-10 club ?

Agree about returning players, we're still going to lose these games when the inevitable small window of lapsed concentration hands victory to our opposition, however well we might play, applying ourselves for 2 to 3 quarters.

 

[Sydee 4,413]

5 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

If we are relying on Tom McDonald  up forward we are in big big trouble.

We need to try a Petty,  Mitch Brown combo because unless Max drifts down there our forward line has no presence at all.

If we are relying on Mitch Brown to kick a wining score we are in serious trouble, is he worse than TMac or Petty I'm not sure but the reality is I suspect all three would struggle to get a game in any of the top tier teams 

[fr_ap 2,478]

Some concerning signs I agree but just a note on Gawn and why he "can't tap it down the throat of the mids"

A ruck is no good on his own - requires a midfield group that know how to structure a stoppage, block for each other and create space around where the hitout is directed. 

Watching closely yesterday it was obvious that the 2nd string midfield A) haven't played a lot together absent clarry, viney B) were taught a lesson on stoppage craft. Libba (who destroys us even when we have the A team in) gave Sparrow an absolute spanking in this - pushed him deep underneath every centre bounce before finding the ball, riding two tackles and dishing off to one of the other mids that held their structure. Sparrow, Jordon, Anb/avb/harmes swarmed around the ball and carrier meaning if they won it, they had nowhere to go, and if they didn't win it, it became vitally important they stuck the tackle, which they didn't because they aren't senior bodies. It's a VFL way of playing footy in the midfield - see ball chase ball and the strongest wins - rather than what's required of AFL mids to block, create space, cycle structure around a stoppage, break a tackle to draw a man etc

The names highlighted demonstrated almost no aspect of this in their midfield craft other than Harmes, who displayed a little but was inevitably gang tackled as he had no assistance. Gawn can 'tap it down their throats' all day long but without proper midfield setup, it counts for nothing. 

People rave about Gawn at centre bounces - driven by the ridiculous value that hitouts are given for fantasy scoring, which have for some reason elevated certain ruckman to being ranked alongside the games most influential mids, forwards and backs. It's pure nonsense. 

For me the value of Gawn is purely in his marking and structures he provides us everywhere else around the ground.

Agree with the earlier post who said give me a Bont or Pendles over a dominant ruck anyday. To some extent I hate that we wanted a top 10 afl player on our list for so long, and when it came it was a bloody ruck. It's an argument many have had - I maintain that an elite ruck is nowhere near a requirement for a flag compared to an elite midfield, creative small forwards and dominant key forwards. I'd switch Max out  for Sonny Walters or Liam Ryan anyday. 

The best teams in the league - Port, Geelong, Brisbane, St Kilda - have a mix of good, serviceable rucks and battlers who fill a 'tall' need (e.g Ladhams). But they're stacked everywhere else on the ground. 

This is not a potshot at Max but a point to posters who seem to think that he can, via hitouts, somehow make us win clearances regardless of the cattle at his feet. Footy is that simple at country level but it's far more complex at AFL level.

 

 

 

[Demon17 5,188]

5 minutes ago, Sydee said:

 this group is showing all the tell tale signs from previous seasons of inconsistency and inability to stop teams from effectively icing a game in one quarter

 

Nailed it Sydee.

Everything else on this website  is just commentary and opinion, as it should be.

 This is the issue.

[joeboy 3,166]

Not an acceptable excuse under any circumstances ,but the feeling at the ground from the outset was the players weren’t up for the contest.

I think the attitude was established and the game was lost at the selection table.

Ultimately the Bulldogs came to play and we came to survive until the missing players on our list returned

[DeeZee 7,378]

13 minutes ago, Sydee said:

If we are relying on Mitch Brown to kick a wining score we are in serious trouble, is he worse than TMac or Petty I'm not sure but the reality is I suspect all three would struggle to get a game in any of the top tier teams 

Yes but we have to try something because it ain’t working 

[fr_ap 2,478]

I would also add for those who were disappointed at the progression of sparrow, Jordon, Chandler, Baker etc. - they may not be good enough after all but don't forget for everyone other than the best 22 last year, it was a total write off. No VFL, barely any intraclub/practise games etc. They effectively had to waste a year of their career. So 3rd year players should really be thought of as 2nd and so on. Any wonder Rivers, who was exposed to a lot of senior footy last year, already looks more at the level (notwithstanding he may simply be a better footballer than the others) 

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

We may have had our best midfield out yesterday but the game was almost a replica of the 2020 game:  we won the hit outs but lost the clearances; they waltzed the ball out of defence and sailed down the ground often for repeat goals.  We kept up until half time and in the third quarter they put the foot down and took off.  The game was done.

That 2020 game was a critical, critical game.  It was before the demanding travel schedule to NT and Carins.  There was no reason to be lethargic.  Had we won we would have made finals even with the same results at the back end of the season.

The bulldogs know how to beat us.  I'm not sure we learnt much from that 2020 game.  And tbh even with our 1st choice midfield yesterday I really doubt we would have won or come close.  The scoreboard flattered us:  31 scoring shots to 18.

If yesterday is what our new game plan of 'front half play, keep the ball in' looks like, it failed against a team that move the ball out of defence well.  It failed last year against teams that hold onto the ball in our fwd50 ala the Geelong game.

It is a practice game but I'm hoping there is a lot more in our kit bag than getting our midfield back - a midfield who regularly won the hit-puts last year but lost the clearances.

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

Did anyone notice that TMac was competing with Max when May was kicking in?  Spoiled him a few times and one time ripped the ball from his grasp?  iirc it was primarily in the first quarter.  

Did I hear someone say they would play 'selfless' football?  Hmm, I wonder what TMac thinks that looks like.

Another example was when Baker took a low % shot for goal when there were players in better positions.

Maybe some players need reminding of what 'selfless' looks like.

[Sydee 4,413]

3 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Yes but we have to try something because it ain’t working 

I can run out and play CHF but I would be a waste of space - that would be "trying something" 

Mitch Brown is not the answer IMO - over the off season we have thrown all our cards on the Weid (again despite his inability to perform consistently) and BBB who was effectively dumped by a team that I expected to finish bottom 4

I hope both prove me wrong but neither seem to bring what I believe is sadly lacking in our forward 50 - that is physical presence and aggression  

[Doug Reemer 1,197]

15 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Anyone still think T Mac isnt finished?

Mitch Brown and Petty are better options up forward than him.

For whatever reason. Can't judge his run at the ball.

But our team can't kick to advantage ever.. Except petracca and fristch.