2020 Members Forum

[Demonland 73,139]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They have moved to Casey for 2021 due to covid as far as I can tell.

It seemed pretty clear from the Members Night that the move to Casey for preseason was for the state of the art facilities and the MCG sized ground. 

[old dee 23,871]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They have moved to Casey for 2021 due to covid as far as I can tell. You're right it will be years away because by the time they select the site and actually begin work on it it will be at least another 12 months. If they get it right I don't care if it takes a few years rather than a few months. Get it done and get it done properly.

From what Pert said they moved because Casey has a better surface and is bigger. Better able to prepare for playing on the G.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,278]

13 minutes ago, Demonland said:

It seemed pretty clear from the Members Night that the move to Casey for preseason was for the state of the art facilities and the MCG sized ground. 

 

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

From what Pert said they moved because Casey has a better surface and is bigger. Better able to prepare for playing on the G.

Fair enough I thought I'd heard it mentioned previously that Casey would be the main base in 2021 die to covid as there is no way to control the environment at Goschs. I guess there's limited control at Casey as well but with less traffic.

[rjay 25,081]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

Simon Goodwin

• Thanked supporters for their support during difficult year
• No excuses
• Give context for 2020 by talking about toughness of being away from family, the compressed draw, shortened breaks and lots of travel
• lost preseason fitness advantage due to covid break
• cancelled game
• failed to make finals
• acknowledged Cairns games as the reason
• Will learn from all these lessons
• Need to survive the turnover game
• Improve accuracy
• Improve forward 50 efficiency
• Greater level of consistency - Port, Freo, Sydney, Geelong games
• Resetting the coaching staff
• Sounds like he's getting very emotional

No Excuses then lists 4...

*2020

*Lost preseason advantage

*Cancelled game

*Cairns

I always find it funny when coaches say this.

There are always reasons that can be seen as excuses.

When is a reason an excuse and an excuse a reason by the way.

[Demonland 73,139]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Fair enough I thought I'd heard it mentioned previously that Casey would be the main base in 2021 die to covid as there is no way to control the environment at Goschs. I guess there's limited control at Casey as well but with less traffic.

No doubt COVID control is also factor but it wasn’t specially stated at the forum. I assume crowd control away from prying eyes is also a factor. 

[old dee 23,871]

19 minutes ago, Demonland said:

It seemed pretty clear from the Members Night that the move to Casey for preseason was for the state of the art facilities and the MCG sized ground. 

Says it all doesn't it.  We should be based at Casey until they get an alternative which looks to be a couple of years away at best. First it has to be approved then constructed if that is not at least two years min. I will be very surprised. If we are to win a flag anytime soon we need to train on a bigger area than Goschs. Casey it is until something bigger is available.

[Dee man 303]

I really appreciate the club for doing this. Even though Zoom isn't an ideal platform for something like this, it was good of the club to stick to their word and run this again for members after starting it last year. Credit probably goes to Pert.

A few critical observations:

• Absolutely no mention of Josh Mahoney. That probably isn't too surprising given the news this week but he didn't even get an acknowledgment from the team for over a decade of service. Read into that what you like.
• On that note, there was no presentation from the football department (Alan Richardson answered a few questions but didn't present a football-specific review). This was handled by Mahoney last year and my assumption is that Pert and Lamb took on most of this in their spiels. But what it meant was that we didn't get too many specifics from someone close to the football side of things about what went right and wrong this year. I mean, Goodwin spoke, but he speaks in such shallow platitudes and cliches that he gives supporters very little insight. In last year's presentation, I thought Mahoney was very candid about where we are at and what went wrong. In his absence, I was hoping Richardson might be the new person to provide some of those football-specific insights that are too low-level for Pert and Bartlett and too intellectual for Goodwin.
• As for Goodwin, I wish he knew how to give an example! A question was asked during the Q&A about what being ruthless meant to him and he gave a 1 mark answer to a 5 mark question (as a teacher, this is the best analogy I can come up with). He gave a vague definition of what ruthlessness was, but couldn't name a specific example of what that actually tangibly means for the players or coaches. I've always assumed he keeps things close to his chest to not be too revealing, but the more I listen to him I get the sense that he's actually a pretty poor communicator who tries too hard to say the right thing rather than saying anything useful. (And this is coming from someone who likes him) I can only hope there's a different side of him that's specific and clear when talking to the players about his game plan.
• Pert responded to a question about Melbourne's BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goals). He outlined his vision for the club, but he seemed more enthused about building the membership base to 75,000 (which he mentioned about 3 times) than winning a premiership (which he mentioned once, but it was contextualised by "if we are making the finals consistently"). I wish the leaders at the club were more explicit about the fact that we want to win a premiership and that is our core goal as an organisation. Even if that's not what Pert's KPI is, I want him to believe that he can and will win a flag and for him to be bold about it. Ditto Bartlett, Goodwin, etc. As long suffering fans, we know that winning a premiership is hard work and probably not going to come for another 100 years. But for God's sake, give us some hope that that's at least what we're aiming for! (And not just because it's in a strategic plan, but because it's a driving force behind the football club and its culture)

Edited December 10, 2020 by Dee man

[Demonland 73,139]

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

No Excuses then lists 4...

*2020

*Lost preseason advantage

*Cancelled game

*Cairns

I always find it funny when coaches say this.

There are always reasons that can be seen as excuses.

When is a reason an excuse and an excuse a reason by the way.

My point form notes doesn’t convey the gist of what he meant. He wasn’t making excuses per se but listed some mitigating  factors to give context.

I guess other teams, including finals teams, also had mitigating circumstances but of all the teams we probably did it the toughest with all those factors. 

Some teams barely moved out of their hubs. 

[Elegt 872]

More excuses... Cairns travel. Absolute bs,  last year it was lots of pre season surgeries and this year it's travel for a Cairns game. Sick of this. Should be a no excuses culture

[binman 43,740]

7 minutes ago, Elegt said:

More excuses... Cairns travel. Absolute bs,  last year it was lots of pre season surgeries and this year it's travel for a Cairns game. Sick of this. Should be a no excuses culture

So am I right to say  that in your view the club making excuses contributes to poor performance?

[Elegt 872]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

So am I right to say  that in your view the club making excuses contributes to poor performance?

Yep. Shows they accept mediocrity 

[Demon Disciple 12,270]

3 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Yep. Shows they accept mediocrity 

Either that or they cannot recognise it.

[deanox 9,989]

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

No Excuses then lists 4...

*2020

*Lost preseason advantage

*Cancelled game

*Cairns

I always find it funny when coaches say this.

There are always reasons that can be seen as excuses.

When is a reason an excuse and an excuse a reason by the way.

An excuse means you take no responsibility: "It's not our fault we lost those games, bad things happened out of our control, we couldn't help it, it's not fair."

Reasons, are contributing factors: "After analysing what happened these things contributed to the situation. We couldn't control them and weren't able to mitigate them. If they didn't happen, we believe the outcome would have been different, but unfortunately we weren't able to manage the process.".

 

By saying nothing, they get slammed for no communication. 

By giving excuses they are blaming everyone else and not taking responsibility. 

By saying "we aren't making excuses, but because we know you are interested,  here are some of the factors that we identified as contributing factors after our lessons learnt analysis", they are communicating well with their members. 

 

[binman 43,740]

30 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Yep. Shows they accept mediocrity 

Stop making excuses for them. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,587]

Thanks Demonland for the updates. I was unavailable so the information on this thread was great. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

10 hours ago, binman said:

Interestingly burgess, before responding to a question on surgeries  returned to a previous question from 'james' about the Cairns schmooze and arriving on the day and with a fair bit of feeling said it was certainly not their choice, it was the afl. And noted the opposition had two days prep in Cairns. Sounded pretty annoyed.

Or they could also admit that we have a serious problem against the Sydney Swans.

Since 2006 we’ve beaten them twice. TWICE.

We could’ve played them at Metricon on an 8 day break and we still probably would’ve lost to them in 2020.

A mentally switched on albeit slightly tired good side would’ve beaten a pathetic 4-9 Sydney side that managed just 2 goals in a game just two weeks prior - regardless of venue and time.

We’re an excuse based football club.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Bring-Back-Powell

[BDA 22,875]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

Says it all doesn't it.  We should be based at Casey until they get an alternative which looks to be a couple of years away at best. First it has to be approved then constructed if that is not at least two years min. I will be very surprised. If we are to win a flag anytime soon we need to train on a bigger area than Goschs. Casey it is until something bigger is available.

Covid or no Covid if the facilities are top notch then I’d prefer they stayed out there for the year and beyond until the new base is finished. Why train at sub standard facilities when Casey is there and available?

[drdrake 3,187]

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Or they could also admit that we have a serious problem against the Sydney Swans.

Since 2006 we’ve beaten them twice. TWICE.

We could’ve played them at Metricon on an 8 day break and we still probably would’ve lost to them in 2020.

A mentally switched on albeit slightly tired good side would’ve beaten a pathetic 4-9 Sydney side that managed just 2 goals in a game just two weeks prior - regardless of venue and time.

We’re an excuse based football club.

Most sides we only have beaten a couple of times since 2006, didn't Ben Brown state North are 7 wins 1 loss in the games he played against us.  Don't forget our midfield was drafted to be in the mould of Sydney, big body contested Mids.

There is nothing that has be post in this thread that this site haven't been banging on about for many many years.  The underlying issue we haven't been able to address for a long time is being able to sustain our best Football for entire games and from week to week we have no idea if side will turn up to play.  We always have massive flat patches with in games and throw in regular absolute stinker games.  Didn't need a review to know this just ready this site for the last 20 years.

Positive words by all last night, nothing we haven't heard before though and the performance in 2021 needs to back these words up, we haven't been able to do that  in the past

[Cards13 9,117]

9 hours ago, Demonland said:

It seemed pretty clear from the Members Night that the move to Casey for preseason was for the state of the art facilities and the MCG sized ground. 

Also as Bartlett noted in the podcast after the season,  Casey will be out MCG sized ground moving forward. Any ground close to the G precinct will be Docklands sized ground. 

[BDA 22,875]

@Demonland do you know if recordings of the presentations be made available? the website has reports but no recordings

[Rednblueriseing 825]

9 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

@Demonland do you know if recordings of the presentations be made available? the website has reports but no recordings

Click on the videos icon, I watched Bartlett,Pert and questions videos Hoping they put up Goody and Burgos 

[Kent 2,914]

Has the fixture for games 1 to 6 been published anywhere?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,278]

10 hours ago, old dee said:

Says it all doesn't it.  We should be based at Casey until they get an alternative which looks to be a couple of years away at best. First it has to be approved then constructed if that is not at least two years min. I will be very surprised. If we are to win a flag anytime soon we need to train on a bigger area than Goschs. Casey it is until something bigger is available.

Punt Rd is smaller than the MCG - hasn't seemed to have hurt the Tigers

[Dr. Gonzo 24,278]

10 hours ago, Dee man said:

I really appreciate the club for doing this. Even though Zoom isn't an ideal platform for something like this, it was good of the club to stick to their word and run this again for members after starting it last year. Credit probably goes to Pert.

A few critical observations:

• Absolutely no mention of Josh Mahoney. That probably isn't too surprising given the news this week but he didn't even get an acknowledgment from the team for over a decade of service. Read into that what you like.
• On that note, there was no presentation from the football department (Alan Richardson answered a few questions but didn't present a football-specific review). This was handled by Mahoney last year and my assumption is that Pert and Lamb took on most of this in their spiels. But what it meant was that we didn't get too many specifics from someone close to the football side of things about what went right and wrong this year. I mean, Goodwin spoke, but he speaks in such shallow platitudes and cliches that he gives supporters very little insight. In last year's presentation, I thought Mahoney was very candid about where we are at and what went wrong. In his absence, I was hoping Richardson might be the new person to provide some of those football-specific insights that are too low-level for Pert and Bartlett and too intellectual for Goodwin.
• As for Goodwin, I wish he knew how to give an example! A question was asked during the Q&A about what being ruthless meant to him and he gave a 1 mark answer to a 5 mark question (as a teacher, this is the best analogy I can come up with). He gave a vague definition of what ruthlessness was, but couldn't name a specific example of what that actually tangibly means for the players or coaches. I've always assumed he keeps things close to his chest to not be too revealing, but the more I listen to him I get the sense that he's actually a pretty poor communicator who tries too hard to say the right thing rather than saying anything useful. (And this is coming from someone who likes him) I can only hope there's a different side of him that's specific and clear when talking to the players about his game plan.
• Pert responded to a question about Melbourne's BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goals). He outlined his vision for the club, but he seemed more enthused about building the membership base to 75,000 (which he mentioned about 3 times) than winning a premiership (which he mentioned once, but it was contextualised by "if we are making the finals consistently"). I wish the leaders at the club were more explicit about the fact that we want to win a premiership and that is our core goal as an organisation. Even if that's not what Pert's KPI is, I want him to believe that he can and will win a flag and for him to be bold about it. Ditto Bartlett, Goodwin, etc. As long suffering fans, we know that winning a premiership is hard work and probably not going to come for another 100 years. But for God's sake, give us some hope that that's at least what we're aiming for! (And not just because it's in a strategic plan, but because it's a driving force behind the football club and its culture)

Good post

Winning a flag should be the primary aim of each club, not a Big Hairy Audacious Goal (I'll never get over this corporate wankery haha)

If we are to have a BHAG it should be to top the premiership tally with 17 flags (so winning 5 flags over x years similar to what Kennett has said at the Hawks)

[Lucifers Hero 40,351]

10 hours ago, Dee man said:

I really appreciate the club for doing this. Even though Zoom isn't an ideal platform for something like this, it was good of the club to stick to their word and run this again for members after starting it last year. Credit probably goes to Pert.

A few critical observations:

• Absolutely no mention of Josh Mahoney.

That is really, really poor.  I've not been a fan but he deserves public and resounding acknowledgement for his commitment to the club and praise for the professionalism in his work.  Hopefully, it was an oversight and it is remedied at the AGM.