I don't quite get the point he is making by releasing the audio.

Eddie did the Adam Goodes thing. Heritier made comments which didn't support the club (threw Eddie under the bus).

What does the audio prove? Have Collingwood denied that they thought he threw Eddie under the bus?

Thanks in advance.

37 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I agree, I reckon he should do this rather leak snippets of private conversations.  let the court hear his case and let's get to a resolution

I don't follow your final remark in relation to my comment but maybe that was aimed at someone else. I am certainly not saying there wasn't systemic racism at Colingwood

Sorry, the last remark was just me responding more generally to some of the commentary on this thread. Not at all directed to anything you said.

I think Heretia has a whole stack of Audio Recordings, he will leak them sporadically. “Collingwood will always be known as Racist”

I am a White Boy born in Melbourne, so i have no idea what Racism is really like. But Lumumba is not going to walk away from this

2 hours ago, BAMF said:

I don't quite get the point he is making by releasing the audio.

Eddie did the Adam Goodes thing. Heritier made comments which didn't support the club (threw Eddie under the bus).

What does the audio prove? Have Collingwood denied that they thought he threw Eddie under the bus?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, I think what has happened is that initially when H came out with these claims publicly in 2017 the club, Bucks, Eddy etc tried to play it down, said it wasn’t a big deal and denied several of his claims. The only footage of the first press conference with Bucks is here excuse the inflammatory title it’s the only version I could find:

As you can see in the video Buck’s denies knowledge of the nickname, which he later admitted he had heard but thought H was ok with, smirks and consistently implies that H isn’t ok by saying he hopes he’s ok, attempting to play down H claim as implying he’s not well. He doesn’t engage on the “threw him under the bus” comment in this conference but in a subsequent one the same month of the year of this video he denied ever saying it/played down what it was even if he had said it.

The point is clearly H showed the club that he had proof of the nickname, the conversation and other incidents including as part of the do better report. The issue is that every time the CFC has denied, then attempted to paint Lumumba as an antagonist, then admitted it but said it wasn’t a big deal, then said it was a big deal and apologised, then been upset that Lumumba didn’t see it as a genuine apology given they only did it when he dragged them to it through proof. The reason he’s leaking it now is because the do better process fell apart with him, Krakeour and Davis and the only way to make CFC admit what they need to get better is to once again prove he’s not lying. 
Theres a pattern here.

Step one, deny racism:

”what that 13 yo girl said to Adam Goodes isn’t racist” “ they’re not booing him because of racism” “ the nickname wasn’t racist, he was cool with it” “Eddy was joking about a musical, not being racist” “Kennett wasn’t being racist he was making fun of her pants” “everyone’s mean on the internet it’s not unique to racism” 

Step two, admit racism but minimise it:

”yeah what the girl said was racist but he she’s 13 what does she know” “ some people are but not all of them are booing him cause they’re racist” “ yeah it was a racist nickname but they didn’t mean it like that”  “it was a bad joke but Eddy’s not racist he made a mistake” “ it was a bad joke from Kennett buts it’s been blown out of all proportion” “I mean it’s gross but there’s far worse insults and language on the internet”

Step 3 assassinate the victims character:

”yeah it was bad but what kind of man points out a 13 year old girl, Adam Goodes is arrogant” “ he did a war dance when they wouldn’t stop booing him, what did he expect, he should be grateful to the AFL” “ Lumumba is a lunatic on a crusade, he’s a terrible bloke and makes grandiose speeches, he’s just an attention seeker and probably just wants money, he should be grateful to CFC” “Cyril is clearly having a hard time, he’s on the outs with his family, he’s in a bad place and just lashing out” “Eddie’s an attention seeker, he does media and DJing, you put yourself in the spotlight you gotta take it”

Step 4 paint the perpetrator as the victim:

”Adam Goodes ruined this girls life!” “Adam Goodes and Lumumba ruined Bucks and Eddie’s careers! They made mistakes but overall they’re good blokes, they didn’t deserve this” “Cyril is trying to bring down strong successful leaders of a great football club” “Eddie’s trying to guilt the fans for being passionate”

Step 5 apologise, then immediately expect the victim to be cool with it, if they refuse or seek change, say they will never be happy with anything and are totally unreasonable then….

Step 6 restore the status quo until next time.

You watch, the next indigenous player to have a hard time will go through this again. It happens every time and this is the exact culture and cycle that needs to be broken. 

2 hours ago, BAMF said:

I don't quite get the point he is making by releasing the audio.

Eddie did the Adam Goodes thing. Heritier made comments which didn't support the club (threw Eddie under the bus).

What does the audio prove? Have Collingwood denied that they thought he threw Eddie under the bus?

Thanks in advance.

I’m not sure that you say calling out racist comments as throwing someone under the bus. The bizarre thing about all of this is that it sounds like the Pies PR team asked him to speak without first asking what his position was. If they did and he said he stood with Eddie, then “went rogue” I could understand it being considered as throwing Eddie under the bus. 

I do think it’s not a great look in releasing only snippets to the public, and battling it out over twitter is so cringey. Even if he released the full recordings to the media for them to sift through it would provide more balance. I doubt your average footy fan will have the patience to go through the hours of audio he has. 

2 hours ago, deejammin' said:

Hi, I think what has happened is that initially when H came out with these claims publicly in 2017 the club, Bucks, Eddy etc tried to play it down, said it wasn’t a big deal and denied several of his claims. The only footage of the first press conference with Bucks is here excuse the inflammatory title it’s the only version I could find:

As you can see in the video Buck’s denies knowledge of the nickname, which he later admitted he had heard but thought H was ok with, smirks and consistently implies that H isn’t ok by saying he hopes he’s ok, attempting to play down H claim as implying he’s not well. He doesn’t engage on the “threw him under the bus” comment in this conference but in a subsequent one the same month of the year of this video he denied ever saying it/played down what it was even if he had said it.

The point is clearly H showed the club that he had proof of the nickname, the conversation and other incidents including as part of the do better report. The issue is that every time the CFC has denied, then attempted to paint Lumumba as an antagonist, then admitted it but said it wasn’t a big deal, then said it was a big deal and apologised, then been upset that Lumumba didn’t see it as a genuine apology given they only did it when he dragged them to it through proof. The reason he’s leaking it now is because the do better process fell apart with him, Krakeour and Davis and the only way to make CFC admit what they need to get better is to once again prove he’s not lying. 
Theres a pattern here.

Step one, deny racism:

”what that 13 yo girl said to Adam Goodes isn’t racist” “ they’re not booing him because of racism” “ the nickname wasn’t racist, he was cool with it” “Eddy was joking about a musical, not being racist” “Kennett wasn’t being racist he was making fun of her pants” “everyone’s mean on the internet it’s not unique to racism” 

Step two, admit racism but minimise it:

”yeah what the girl said was racist but he she’s 13 what does she know” “ some people are but not all of them are booing him cause they’re racist” “ yeah it was a racist nickname but they didn’t mean it like that”  “it was a bad joke but Eddy’s not racist he made a mistake” “ it was a bad joke from Kennett buts it’s been blown out of all proportion” “I mean it’s gross but there’s far worse insults and language on the internet”

Step 3 assassinate the victims character:

”yeah it was bad but what kind of man points out a 13 year old girl, Adam Goodes is arrogant” “ he did a war dance when they wouldn’t stop booing him, what did he expect, he should be grateful to the AFL” “ Lumumba is a lunatic on a crusade, he’s a terrible bloke and makes grandiose speeches, he’s just an attention seeker and probably just wants money, he should be grateful to CFC” “Cyril is clearly having a hard time, he’s on the outs with his family, he’s in a bad place and just lashing out” “Eddie’s an attention seeker, he does media and DJing, you put yourself in the spotlight you gotta take it”

Step 4 paint the perpetrator as the victim:

”Adam Goodes ruined this girls life!” “Adam Goodes and Lumumba ruined Bucks and Eddie’s careers! They made mistakes but overall they’re good blokes, they didn’t deserve this” “Cyril is trying to bring down strong successful leaders of a great football club” “Eddie’s trying to guilt the fans for being passionate”

Step 5 apologise, then immediately expect the victim to be cool with it, if they refuse or seek change, say they will never be happy with anything and are totally unreasonable then….

Step 6 restore the status quo until next time.

You watch, the next indigenous player to have a hard time will go through this again. It happens every time and this is the exact culture and cycle that needs to be broken. 

Thankyou so much for explaining the situation. I have never really been that interested in this story and never paid much attention to it. I'm genuinely grateful for your response.

I still think it takes a certain type of person to record others without their knowledge and leak selected cut snippets. However, the other Collingwood players joining in on breaking ties with the club speaks huge volumes.

 

Lumumba is an extremist. Not one of the usual ones we know of in society - but an extremist nonetheless. 

If this is his idea of calling out bigotry and racism then he’s stuffing it up for a lot of groups who don’t have a voice. 
 

Edited May 11, 20222 yr by McQueen

I’m intrigued when I get a ‘facepalm’ emoji. 
Let’s see what they’ve got!

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

I’m intrigued when I get a ‘facepalm’ emoji. 
Let’s see what they’ve got!

I always take it as a positive.  Like they are so blown away by my amazing comment

I get quite a lot so I must be popular!

3 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I always take it as a positive.  Like they are so blown away by my amazing comment

I get quite a lot so I must be popular!

It’s just politics on an internet chat forum scale. 
Btw, everything I’ve read that you post just amazes me. 
Keep it up. 

2 minutes ago, McQueen said:

It’s just politics on an internet chat forum scale. 
Btw, everything I’ve read that you post just amazes me. 
Keep it up. 

so tempted to facepalm you but laughed instead 😂

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

Lumumba is an extremist. Not one of the usual ones we know of in society - but an extremist nonetheless. 

If this is his idea of calling out bigotry and racism then he’s stuffing it up for a lot of groups who don’t have a voice. 
 

How is Lumumba an extremist? 

30 minutes ago, BoBo said:

How is Lumumba an extremist? 

How is he not?

 

Edited May 11, 20222 yr by McQueen

eddie is a recidivist sexist, racist, misogynistic liar

figjam has now shown to be someone who says one thing in private and then repeatedly lies about it in public while besmirching the qualities and character of those who are accusing him of being a liar and not much of a leader

the whole thing is an ugly mess - glad we're only tangentially involved thru our current ceo (who h seemingly had a valid complaint about his behaviour when at the filth) and h's post-filth career with us, which also ended on poor terms but at least didn't seem to have anything like the sort of appalling behaviour and culture exhibited at his previous club

3 hours ago, McQueen said:

Lumumba is an extremist. Not one of the usual ones we know of in society - but an extremist nonetheless. 

If this is his idea of calling out bigotry and racism then he’s stuffing it up for a lot of groups who don’t have a voice. 
 

Yeah. He sees things in black and white. Like most borderlines do. Anyone trying to understand Harry O will soon learn that he cannot understand himself. Bloke is mentally ill and needs proper therapy and help. I say that as someone who doesn’t particular like Eddie, and who believes Buckley is a micro manager. I do hope Harry O stuffs up enough to be held accountable by the law, as it’s tne only tool provided by society where he may need to curb his behaviour. Social media is a borderlines paradise, gives them the perfect platform to gratify their need for attention, and penchant for chaos, but, given enough rope, and they soon hang themselves, 

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

How is he not?

 

Because he hasn’t expressed opinions or beliefs that align with extremist ideologies nor has he demonstrated in his actions anything that could lead me to believe he is an extremist.

But of course being asked to prove a negative is a logical fallacy as you know.

So how is Lumumba an extremist?

10 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It's a good point. I'll choose my words a bit more carefully.

It appears he was more evolved than the sociocultural system in place at the time. He was addressing, sexism, racism and other forms of bigotry 10 years ago in a system that was not ready for that to be addressed.  Importantly, he was not being compliant (and is still not) to what he feels is acceptable for his distress to be redressed, whereas I suspect many other people would be compliant.

People get paid out all the time in these situations, people sign non-disclosure agreements. That aint Heretier's style.

 

Can you help me understand what you meant by

"Can anyone imagine Bernie Vince getting up on the best and fairest night and declaring he was a prince. It simply wouldn't happen"

Thanks for such  a considered response.

The reason I bought up Bernie Vince is because he bought in and his family bought in.

I've never read anything about Lamumba's family coming to watch our games while he was playing. 

Lamumba seems to me a culture killer. I hate Buckley but agree if you are going to drop recordings do them in full. Don't just cut them to suit yourself

 

44 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Because he hasn’t expressed opinions or beliefs that align with extremist ideologies nor has he demonstrated in his actions anything that could lead me to believe he is an extremist.

But of course being asked to prove a negative is a logical fallacy as you know.

So how is Lumumba an extremist?

What ideologies are you referring to?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/may/12/heritier-lumumba-made-us-feel-uncomfortable-and-from-that-we-have-much-to-learn

14 hours ago, deejammin' said:

Hi, I think what has happened is that initially when H came out with these claims publicly in 2017 the club, Bucks, Eddy etc tried to play it down, said it wasn’t a big deal and denied several of his claims. 

Step one, deny racism:

”what that 13 yo girl said to Adam Goodes isn’t racist” “ they’re not booing him because of racism” “ the nickname wasn’t racist, he was cool with it” “Eddy was joking about a musical, not being racist” “Kennett wasn’t being racist he was making fun of her pants” “everyone’s mean on the internet it’s not unique to racism” 

Step two, admit racism but minimise it:

”yeah what the girl said was racist but he she’s 13 what does she know” “ some 

You watch, the next indigenous player to have a hard time will go through this again. It happens every time and this is the exact culture and cycle that needs to be broken. 

Are you trying for "woke of the year" or a PhD

A Bible length melange of half baked assertions & crackpot theories.

Are you Colin Flaubert posting under another name ?

Can't believe how much sympathy this entitled prat is receiving.  We dodged a bullet when he left the Dees early.

I'm sure ol mate @deejammin' can defend him or her or themself (if that consideration aint to 'woke' for you). People are entitled to post their opinion, as are you.

Nonetheless, 'Play the ball, not the man' .

 

15 hours ago, deejammin' said:

Hi, I think what has happened is that initially when H came out with these claims publicly in 2017 the club, Bucks, Eddy etc tried to play it down, said it wasn’t a big deal and denied several of his claims. The only footage of the first press conference with Bucks is here excuse the inflammatory title it’s the only version I could find:

You watch, the next indigenous player to have a hard time will go through this again. It happens every time and this is the exact culture and cycle that needs to be broken. 

Lamumba is not indigenous

Heritier believes he has a case against Collingwood for racist behavior. Racism is not limited to being committed against our indigenous community.

 

 

Edited May 11, 20222 yr by faultydet

15 hours ago, deejammin' said:

Hi, I think what has happened is that initially when H came out with these claims publicly in 2017 the club, Bucks, Eddy etc tried to play it down, said it wasn’t a big deal and denied several of his claims. The only footage of the first press conference with Bucks is here excuse the inflammatory title it’s the only version I could find:

As you can see in the video Buck’s denies knowledge of the nickname, which he later admitted he had heard but thought H was ok with, smirks and consistently implies that H isn’t ok by saying he hopes he’s ok, attempting to play down H claim as implying he’s not well. He doesn’t engage on the “threw him under the bus” comment in this conference but in a subsequent one the same month of the year of this video he denied ever saying it/played down what it was even if he had said it.

The point is clearly H showed the club that he had proof of the nickname, the conversation and other incidents including as part of the do better report. The issue is that every time the CFC has denied, then attempted to paint Lumumba as an antagonist, then admitted it but said it wasn’t a big deal, then said it was a big deal and apologised, then been upset that Lumumba didn’t see it as a genuine apology given they only did it when he dragged them to it through proof. The reason he’s leaking it now is because the do better process fell apart with him, Krakeour and Davis and the only way to make CFC admit what they need to get better is to once again prove he’s not lying. 
Theres a pattern here.

Step one, deny racism:

”what that 13 yo girl said to Adam Goodes isn’t racist” “ they’re not booing him because of racism” “ the nickname wasn’t racist, he was cool with it” “Eddy was joking about a musical, not being racist” “Kennett wasn’t being racist he was making fun of her pants” “everyone’s mean on the internet it’s not unique to racism” 

Step two, admit racism but minimise it:

”yeah what the girl said was racist but he she’s 13 what does she know” “ some people are but not all of them are booing him cause they’re racist” “ yeah it was a racist nickname but they didn’t mean it like that”  “it was a bad joke but Eddy’s not racist he made a mistake” “ it was a bad joke from Kennett buts it’s been blown out of all proportion” “I mean it’s gross but there’s far worse insults and language on the internet”

Step 3 assassinate the victims character:

”yeah it was bad but what kind of man points out a 13 year old girl, Adam Goodes is arrogant” “ he did a war dance when they wouldn’t stop booing him, what did he expect, he should be grateful to the AFL” “ Lumumba is a lunatic on a crusade, he’s a terrible bloke and makes grandiose speeches, he’s just an attention seeker and probably just wants money, he should be grateful to CFC” “Cyril is clearly having a hard time, he’s on the outs with his family, he’s in a bad place and just lashing out” “Eddie’s an attention seeker, he does media and DJing, you put yourself in the spotlight you gotta take it”

Step 4 paint the perpetrator as the victim:

”Adam Goodes ruined this girls life!” “Adam Goodes and Lumumba ruined Bucks and Eddie’s careers! They made mistakes but overall they’re good blokes, they didn’t deserve this” “Cyril is trying to bring down strong successful leaders of a great football club” “Eddie’s trying to guilt the fans for being passionate”

Step 5 apologise, then immediately expect the victim to be cool with it, if they refuse or seek change, say they will never be happy with anything and are totally unreasonable then….

Step 6 restore the status quo until next time.

You watch, the next indigenous player to have a hard time will go through this again. It happens every time and this is the exact culture and cycle that needs to be broken. 

Great post, thank you deejammin 

10 hours ago, BoBo said:

How is Lumumba an extremist? 

Unrelated but what is the difference between an extremist and a radicalist? 

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

Are you trying for "woke of the year" or a PhD

You only have to look at the overwhelming positive response to deejammin's excellent post to realise that you are part of a very small minority here, Franky.

Like some others, you seem to confuse "woke" with common human decency and respect for others.