37 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

The difference here from many of the other ruck trades is that Preuss has 2 years of contract remaining. This means that we have full control, unlike say Nankervis or similar. We have leverage here because it's not like we are desperate to get rid of him and he's contracted. We could easily have him on the list for another year and do it next year. We hold the whip hand and it wouldn't surprise me if we got a pretty decent deal for him.

He play 2 games in the ruck this year. One where he was very competitive with Grundy and the other where he smashed English. He's an AFL quality ruck who we have in contract. A team that needs a first ruck would need to tempt us into trading him.

This is the crux of it.  Incumbent on buyers to satisfy us, and that will determine the value. He's potentially of greater value to GWS or Sydney than a late first or 2nd round pick. Sydney in particular have some academy kids rated in the 10-20 range, so probably happy to flip 22 for Preuss & our lower picks. We could probably then do some thing with picks 22& 23 if another deal came up.

GWS on the other hand have a very average draft hand after working to get Green in, whilst ensuring they retained a higher pick (Ash). Their currency in trade for Preuss will likely be a player (don't know if we'd play the futures game with them, but they are probably looking at a ladder drop pretty soon). Sounds like Perryman has resigned, so realistically looking at one of Caldwell, O'Halloran or Hately as players that might fall out this year.  

We lose nothing by keeping him (Preuss hasn't agitated for a move), will only move on if it's a win for us I'd imagine.

Edited September 25, 20204 yr by ChaserJ

Yep it's in the interests of all parties to get a deal done.

Preuss wants to play AFL and we can't guarantee that, whereas GWS has only Matt Flynn and Kieren Biggs now that Jacobs and Mummy have retired or are about to retire in Mummy's case. 

I said on my Gawn to Gone topic that Preuss is a third rounder, but obviously if the other side of the bridge got involved, and I imagine Sydney would, then it's possible he could be a second rounder or a good fringe prospect. Harry Himmelberg would be a huge get and I believe he's out of contract. We'd surely have to offer them a third rounder in return though. But maybe not if the Swans also went hard for him. 

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

The difference here from many of the other ruck trades is that Preuss has 2 years of contract remaining. This means that we have full control, unlike say Nankervis or similar. We have leverage here because it's not like we are desperate to get rid of him and he's contracted. We could easily have him on the list for another year and do it next year. We hold the whip hand and it wouldn't surprise me if we got a pretty decent deal for him.

He play 2 games in the ruck this year. One where he was very competitive with Grundy and the other where he smashed English. He's an AFL quality ruck who we have in contract. A team that needs a first ruck would need to tempt us into trading him.

Yes, i still think Preuss will develop into an AFL first ruck at a club like GWS or Sydney. He has room to improve and IMO is underrated by us supporters. And he's learnt at MFC under the best there is!

Is he a gun ruck? Probably not, but he has shown ability with us and at Norf.

Is he worth a 2nd rounder? To a club with limited rucks, yes.

Still has 2 years with us. Hope we play hard and get what is good for us.

I'd like us to package up a few picks or player + pick/s and get back into front half of 2020 1st round

Surely Sydney or GWS have a player we need. Preuss could be traded off with a few picks each way to get the job done. 

Realistically what would be a trade that would suits? 

Would love a Taranto, Cameron and Haynes for Preuss but not going to happen. 

1 hour ago, ChaserJ said:

This is the crux of it.  Incumbent on buyers to satisfy us, and that will determine the value. He's potentially of greater value to GWS or Sydney than a late first or 2nd round pick. Sydney in particular have some academy kids rated in the 10-20 range, so probably happy to flip 22 for Preuss & our lower picks. We could probably then do some thing with picks 22& 23 if another deal came up.

GWS on the other hand have a very average draft hand after working to get Green in, whilst ensuring they retained a higher pick (Ash). Their currency in trade for Preuss will likely be a player (don't know if we'd play the futures game with them, but they are probably looking at a ladder drop pretty soon). Sounds like Perryman has resigned, so realistically looking at one of Caldwell, O'Halloran or Hately as players that might fall out this year.  

We lose nothing by keeping him (Preuss hasn't agitated for a move), will only move on if it's a win for us I'd imagine.

The deal with Sydney has merit. Pick 22 and 23 is a good hand and could be packaged up for an established player.

20 hours ago, Demons3031 said:

FWIW   My preference would be to keep Preuss and use him as first ruck.

Gawn has a lot to offer in both attack and defence - depending on how the game is going. He has saved us with his marking interceptions on many occasions and is so hard for the Opposition to match up on in the forward line ....and he can take on ruck duties in the forward line as Weeds and T Mac do now. I feel we leave ourselves very exposed if Gawn gets injured seriously.

But its not just the insurance  factor - I  feel we need to instill more fear and frustration into Oppositions and make them sweat more.   As  others have suggested, Gawn's great ruck work is often not capitalised on so  it wouldn't necessarily be a great loss in that department ...though we  could always swing him back there during a game if we felt it needed that. 

   I feel we don't really create that fear in Opposition' where they panic - have seen it only rare occasions such as Geelong in the 2018 final.

Gawn as a weapon in defence and attack might make us more unpredictable too and create confusion in Opposition decision making. I think that partly explains why every now and  then I go back and replay those last half goals in that 2018 final! :)

This mas merit too!

Will miss his vibrant personality 

On 9/24/2020 at 1:58 PM, DeeSpencer said:

We’ve bloated our salary cap with deals like Tomlinson, so if we can get out of Preuss’ cash and use the pick and cash on a best 22 player I think we should.

Jackson is the number 2. 
 

If Bradtke isn’t the number 3 then we should look through the state leagues and other clubs back ups for a cheap number 3.

You dont know that its just pure speculation. Who knows how much space we have.

3 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

You dont know that its just pure speculation. Who knows how much space we have.

I don't know if we have $1 or $1Million spare. It doesn't really matter. Either way we've got a lot of top line expensive players - Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Lever, May, Langdon, Brayshaw, McDonald and hopefully Viney. We paid up for Tomlinson -free agents are never cheap and it was reported at the time that we paid up to get Preuss.

This years re-signings might not break the bank but next year we have to factor in new contracts for Oliver, Gawn, Salem, Weideman and extensions for the 3 draftees in particular Rivers and Jackson.

Any opportunity to get cash off the books that isn't delivering a strong return is worth exploring.

If we just want a back up for max, geelong have got a few -some of whom will probably be delisted.  Then we get a good player for Preuss from GWS.  Win/Win

 

29 minutes ago, stinga said:

If we just want a back up for max, geelong have got a few -some of whom will probably be delisted.  Then we get a good player for Preuss from GWS.  Win/Win

 

Geelong are another club on the hunt for a ruckman (escaped my mind earlier). Will be interesting to see what North do with Goldstein, he's potentially the best ruck that could change clubs.

7 hours ago, mauriesy said:

Hopefully not to offer them pick 8. ?

No - I’d offer them pick 62.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don't know if we have $1 or $1Million spare. It doesn't really matter. Either way we've got a lot of top line expensive players - Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, Lever, May, Langdon, Brayshaw, McDonald and hopefully Viney. We paid up for Tomlinson -free agents are never cheap and it was reported at the time that we paid up to get Preuss.

This years re-signings might not break the bank but next year we have to factor in new contracts for Oliver, Gawn, Salem, Weideman and extensions for the 3 draftees in particular Rivers and Jackson.

Any opportunity to get cash off the books that isn't delivering a strong return is worth exploring.

It's certainly complicated.

That's ten players who between them would receive between $6-7M before you add in the additional players mentioned in your second paragraph.. The present salary cap before the expected reductions is $12.45M.

Under the deal struck with the AFLPA in 2017 the salary cap was to rise each year until it hit $13.5 M in 2022. This will now not happen and any back-ended deals are subject to review.

Most in the AFL thought that post 2022 there would be another 10-20% rise in the salary cap but the golden goose (aka media rights) is unlikely to lay any more eggs of that size.

Whichever way you look at it we are tight against the cap. Offloading TMac and Viney would of course change things dramatically.

On 9/24/2020 at 1:59 PM, drdrake said:

Preuss needs to be traded for a player, ask GWS about Himmelburg, might cost us a pick as well GWS will need 3rd 4th round picks for points.  

This may be one of the best examples of fellow supporters overrating our fringe players ?

2 minutes ago, Rigatoni Rigoni said:

This may be one of the best examples of fellow supporters overrating our fringe players ?

I did throw in our third round pick.  Gws it is about salary cap space, getting a need in a ruckman draft picks aren't that important as they always have academy players all they need is points to cover

4 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I did throw in our third round pick.  Gws it is about salary cap space, getting a need in a ruckman draft picks aren't that important as they always have academy players all they need is points to cover

To be honest with you, i'd be surprised if GWS would even take Preuss with the 3rd or 4th round pick, let alone adding HH one of their up and coming forwards to the trade

Edited September 25, 20204 yr by Rigatoni Rigoni

2 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

Geelong are another club on the hunt for a ruckman (escaped my mind earlier). Will be interesting to see what North do with Goldstein, he's potentially the best ruck that could change clubs.

Good call mate, although Goldstein is 32 and Preuss is 25. So whoever gets Preuss will get more service out of him than Goldstein. That said, Goldstein is a much better ruckman - though is he finished?

Would love a 2nd rounder but I doubt it . We traded players like Vince and Langdon in for 2nd rounders if that puts things into perspective.

12 hours ago, A F said:

Good call mate, although Goldstein is 32 and Preuss is 25. So whoever gets Preuss will get more service out of him than Goldstein. That said, Goldstein is a much better ruckman - though is he finished?

Maybe they should trade Brown to us for Preuss. He fits their rebuild model.

For those scoffing at Preuss potential worth need to consider the following. He is in contract. There are a few  clubs in desperate need of a primary ruckman and it looks like a year where they are in short supply. We are paying him fairly for a plan b for if Gawn got a long term injury, LJ may be second ruck preference but not for full games or runs of games. He showed in his 2 full games that he can more than hold his own now with improved endurance. He held his own and we squared the stoppages against the pies and he smashed English. It will come down to how much a club needs him and what they have that we may value highly. 

Preuss for Giants pick 39 seems about right. But I agree he is under contract and it would be good to get Swans and Giants to bid against each other. 
I like Preuss with his physical style but with Maxy Gawn and now Jackson’s development, he is surplus and backup only. I think we can trade him to get some value (plus let the man play AFL footy). 

22 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

For those scoffing at Preuss potential worth need to consider the following. He is in contract. There are a few  clubs in desperate need of a primary ruckman and it looks like a year where they are in short supply. We are paying him fairly for a plan b for if Gawn got a long term injury, LJ may be second ruck preference but not for full games or runs of games. He showed in his 2 full games that he can more than hold his own now with improved endurance. He held his own and we squared the stoppages against the pies and he smashed English. It will come down to how much a club needs him and what they have that we may value highly. 

This plus the draft is a crapshoot given no junior football and the academy selections. 

i would not be clearing him just my opinion

Max is just an accident away from knee damage 

we need to play Pruess more and in the absence of a key forward  LJ will spend his time there

If we had a KPF then different matter

14 hours ago, A F said:

Good call mate, although Goldstein is 32 and Preuss is 25. So whoever gets Preuss will get more service out of him than Goldstein. That said, Goldstein is a much better ruckman - though is he finished?

Looking at Geelong, I think they’re really looking to get with Danger, Selwood & Hawkins. So a short term ruck not only acceptable, but probably preferred. A rebuild is on the horizon, so probably not looking to commit longer term money.

 Goldy was unlucky not to be in extended AA squad this year and I could see 2 (possibly managed) years from him.  This all relies on North making him available.

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

For those scoffing at Preuss potential worth need to consider the following. He is in contract. There are a few  clubs in desperate need of a primary ruckman and it looks like a year where they are in short supply. We are paying him fairly for a plan b for if Gawn got a long term injury, LJ may be second ruck preference but not for full games or runs of games. He showed in his 2 full games that he can more than hold his own now with improved endurance. He held his own and we squared the stoppages against the pies and he smashed English. It will come down to how much a club needs him and what they have that we may value highly. 

He showed his potential in 2 games? I have nothing against Preuss, in fact I quite like his big sledge hammer foot booting the football into oblivion for no reason, but this is the overstatement of worth I’m talking about. If I recall correctly he was serviceable vs pies and unless we were watching different games, completely disconnected with our mids during the dogs game and had little to no impact around the ground.

But I guess having a contract makes him good? Or does having a contract give you value in trade? IMO opinion I’d prefer he stayed cause I think you know what you’d get