7 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I would argue Langdon had a bigger impact than Oliver this year and was not surprised by his higher B&F finish (Viney I am less confident though). Oliver seems to be at that age where he is impatient and frustrated but has not recognised he is coming into the years where he should not be following the pack but leading the way and dragging others along with him. We are coming into the year where this should be Oliver, Trac and Lever’s team, they should be setting not following the culture. They are not the kids anymore they should be showing what is the expected levels of training, focus, game day performance, not just theirs but those around them. The penny dropped for Trac (who seemed just as frustrated a year ago) and I suspect the penny will drop for Oliver in 2021. I would under no circumstances trade him this year whether he openly states he wants out or not.

A lot of this is very relevant to our club. We have not had a strong and successful culture for a long, long time.

I think May has been the first player to actually hold people accountable on field and demand better. 
 

The Trac, Oliver, May, Langdon, Lever combo could shape this club for the next 50 years - up to them whether they want to

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

A lot of this is very relevant to our club. We have not had a strong and successful culture for a long, long time.

I think May has been the first player to actually hold people accountable on field and demand better. 
 

The Trac, Oliver, May, Langdon, Lever combo could shape this club for the next 50 years - up to them whether they want to

May's closing in on 30. I'd hope we get 10 years out of all the other names mentioned. Which is why it's important that the current kids we have develop so we can add more names to that list other than 4 listed.

As mentioned here previously, 2021 is the year that will define this football club. Sniffing around Brown and Smith tells me the club know this and they want to win now. Oliver being unhappy, Viney taking his time to commit and the looming contract expiriy of Trac will have the suits on edge. 

In my mind, Brown and Smith won't cost us a lot in picks just wage cap. Moving on a Brayshaw as well could give us room for Merrett, who we need to be in for.

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

But we aren't a great club and haven't been for more than half a century.  There are few signs that we will be in the foreseeable future. 

Why should young men like Oliver and Petracca etc bust a gut to be the best they can be, hang around a club when many others don't and that has a sub-standard coaching panel.

We have a handful of players doing the heavy lifting; the rest are along for the ride.  Oliver isn't one of the latter.  He consistently does more than his fair share.

Sadly, so true. If we cannot keep Oliver and Petracca then supporting the Dees becomes purely sentimental. If either were to go Max might be tempted to go for glory, Jacko and Pickett tempted to head home. Everything is on the line the next two seasons.

How about flipping a late pick for Shane Savage? Could help in a wing or half back allowing Salem or Rivers to a wing. 
Savage is out of contract and apparently on the move. 

3 hours ago, Hunt29 said:

How about flipping a late pick for Shane Savage? Could help in a wing or half back allowing Salem or Rivers to a wing. 
Savage is out of contract and apparently on the move. 

Could be interested depending on his $$ asked for. Savage was ok v tigers and knows how to kick a goal.  But we have a few of his type do not a priority!

I'd love a fans poll on the following

Do the current generation of players have more of an allegiance to their own career (success) and payments throughout vs staying at one club?

My take would be 80% - 20%

ie: It's more of a US model than a 1900-2014 VFL/AFL model?

 

Edited October 10, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

25 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Could be interested depending on his $$ asked for. Savage was ok v tigers and knows how to kick a goal.  But we have a few of his type do not a priority!

I don’t think we have many of his type. Outside runner. I wouldn’t think he’d be asking much and I’d only do it if it was for a late pick. 

23 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I'd love a fans poll on the following

Do the current generation of players have more of an allegiance to their own career (success) and payments throughout vs staying at one club?

My take would be 80% - 20%

ie: It's more of a US model than a 1900-2014 VFL/AFL model?

 

barassi going from melbourne to carlton ahead of 1965 is when i think of the beginning of the professional era, really, where career and opportunity to make bank began to take a priority - he was leaving a premiership side and one of greatest clubs of all time over the previous decade for further opportunity and coin

barassi, stewart, etc. all lead the way for the formation of the aflpa and significant player movement

good history here: http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/All-In_Computer-Edition.pdf

Edited October 10, 20204 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

Mihocek.  Ummmmm - yeh, naaaaah 

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Mihocek.  Ummmmm - yeh, naaaaah 

couldnt do much more with the entries he didnt receive

 

8 hours ago, Hunt29 said:

How about flipping a late pick for Shane Savage? Could help in a wing or half back allowing Salem or Rivers to a wing. 
Savage is out of contract and apparently on the move. 

would say witherden is available for a similar pick, i know which one i'd rather, the one with more than a year left in the system

9 hours ago, Turner said:

couldnt do much more with the entries he didnt receive

 

would say witherden is available for a similar pick, i know which one i'd rather, the one with more than a year left in the system

No way we’d get Witherden for the same pick we’d get Savage. Witherden younger and better. Of course if we had a choice it’d be Witherden every day of the week. 

2 minutes ago, Hunt29 said:

No way we’d get Witherden for the same pick we’d get Savage. Witherden younger and better. Of course if we had a choice it’d be Witherden every day of the week. 

I suggest Savage we could pick up for a late pick or DFA as I think would likely be delisted and is out of contract. Witherden is in contract so would be subject to his want to move and Brisbane’s want to retain him.  

I agree Savage is easier to get and a lot cheaper.  Saints might consider an early pick 66 type deal which is really just a nice way to exit a delisted player. Maybe swap OMc for Savage.  

witherden is somehow not best 22 i think a trade would be similar to the will brodie/peter wright type deals where theyre happy to facilitate therefore a late third early fourth type move. butler was pick 54 as a premiership player, you could get witho the same

So no big fish this draft which is ok with me. Contrast Friday night and 2 of the Saints recruits. Butler was cheap as chips is quick and kicks goals to Hill who cost an arm and a leg, draft picks and had a shocker. Not an isolated event his end of season form shows the risk of spending big on players who struggle on the big stage.

Forget Ben Brown, De Goey or any one in it for the money. Read the story today about Lyons at Brisbane now making Adelaide & Gold Coast look silly. 

15 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Could be interested depending on his $$ asked for. Savage was ok v tigers and knows how to kick a goal.  But we have a few of his type do not a priority!

I would rather address needs and get 2 best 22 players, while also moving on nqr players, who won’t make our best 22 and then concentrate on developing our own and drafting possible future talent. I dislike the scattergun approach of say the Saints, who while they made the finals, got nothing from their high priced newbies, when it really mattered and who now are taking up a lot of their salary cap and probably stifling future development of young players.

13 minutes ago, Older demon said:

So no big fish this draft which is ok with me. Contrast Friday night and 2 of the Saints recruits. Butler was cheap as chips is quick and kicks goals to Hill who cost an arm and a leg, draft picks and had a shocker. Not an isolated event his end of season form shows the risk of spending big on players who struggle on the big stage.

Forget Ben Brown, De Goey or any one in it for the money. Read the story today about Lyons at Brisbane now making Adelaide & Gold Coast look silly. 

And your remark about Hill in finals  wasn't a bit (silly) You obviously forget his Hawthorn heroics For about 4/5 years in the big games!!!

38 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I would rather address needs and get 2 best 22 players, while also moving on nqr players, who won’t make our best 22 and then concentrate on developing our own and drafting possible future talent. I dislike the scattergun approach of say the Saints, who while they made the finals, got nothing from their high priced newbies, when it really mattered and who now are taking up a lot of their salary cap and probably stifling future development of young players.

thought zak jones was good and has been all season. Howard played alright too

Shane Savage?

Richo must be a fan, Savage played a lot of footy under him. 

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/S/Shane_Savage.html

If Richo survives the review there could be a path.

Edited October 11, 20204 yr by Pollyanna

Getting Savage in would be our form of getting ruthless!

6 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I suggest Savage we could pick up for a late pick or DFA as I think would likely be delisted and is out of contract. Witherden is in contract so would be subject to his want to move and Brisbane’s want to retain him.  

Yep my original post suggested flipping a late pick to saints for him. And yeah you could get for nothing as a DFA perhaps.

It's either Smith or Savage. I reckon we'll go with Smith, though I concede that if Smith falls through we may turn our attention to a Savage. Particularly, with the Richardson connection.

From fox footy

The Dees are one of a few clubs considering trading for Ben Brown, who would take some of the pressure off Sam Weideman inside 50. His arrival make a call on Tom McDonald easier. It was reported on Sunday that the Dees had taken the lead in negotiations to land Brown, who kicked at least 60 goals in three consecutive seasons prior to 2020. They’re also right in the hunt to land veteran wingman Isaac Smith, who’s weighing up a move to the Dees or signing a new Hawks contract. With the Dees crying out for another genuine winger to support Ed Langdon, Smith or Jared Polec would be strong pick-ups. Foxfooty.com.au understands the Demons have identified speed and skills as a key priority to fill during the trade period and the national draft. Adam Saad would’ve been perfect, but he appears destined for the Blues.

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

From fox footy

The Dees are one of a few clubs considering trading for Ben Brown, who would take some of the pressure off Sam Weideman inside 50. His arrival make a call on Tom McDonald easier. It was reported on Sunday that the Dees had taken the lead in negotiations to land Brown, who kicked at least 60 goals in three consecutive seasons prior to 2020. They’re also right in the hunt to land veteran wingman Isaac Smith, who’s weighing up a move to the Dees or signing a new Hawks contract. With the Dees crying out for another genuine winger to support Ed Langdon, Smith or Jared Polec would be strong pick-ups. Foxfooty.com.au understands the Demons have identified speed and skills as a key priority to fill during the trade period and the national draft. Adam Saad would’ve been perfect, but he appears destined for the Blues.

Looks like the journo at Fox footy gets his/her stuff from d/land.

Which means he/she must be one of us.

Who is it?