The Travel Factor

[Engorged Onion 9,343]

I'm not going to postulate on what this means...if anything.

However I calculated all the travel accrued by each team, each round for a total figure, As well as the amount of times travel occurred.

And...here are the results.

And yes, Melbourne are on top of distance and on flights taken. Is it meaningful? Perhaps.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[SFebes 4,692]

Only slightly worse than Geelong who are flying and Sydney are playing better towards the end of this season, understand your point but interstate clubs do this every second week normally, West Coast go ok as do Brisbane and Port. Cairns is a 2hr flight and it is our choice to play in Alice Springs for financial reasons. I can understand if we were getting fatigued towards end of games, but that certainly hasn't been a factor in the last two games, we just don't turn up, with any sort of plan and lack effort, that's inexcusable.

Edited September 8, 2020 by SFebes

[Billy 1,973]

Good idea, let’s give the players & supporters another excuse for the pathetic performances that have been the norm over the last 56 years

The MFC Number 1 in deflection of blame

Edited September 8, 2020 by Billy

[Lucifers Hero 37,131]

I think I've missed one.  For the 7 I could find my thoughts are:

• Perth round 1 - we had a month or two to recover.
• Sydney Hub - to be our 'Home' for the rest of the season.
• Qld Hub - this wasn't in the hub plan.  We had to relocate on short notice because Qld were closing its borders to NSW,
• Adel 2 games - the club made a good travel decision by staying in Adel for the North game. 
• Alice - the club asked for this to get the $700k from the NT gov't.  
• Cairns - we were one of the few teams that hadn't played both Syd and Freo who are hubbed there.  The club made a good travel decision by staying in Cairns.
• Qld hub.

It could have been worse: Adel to Hobart as originally scheduled and if not allowed to stay in Adel and Cairns for subsequent games.

Can I ask how the count is done eg I count 4 for Carlton: Melb to Qld Hub to Perth to Darwin to Qld Hub.  And for Adelaide I count 5-6 as they have flown in/out of Adel to Qld for their away games in the latter part of the season.  Haven't looked at any others.

Some people think the AFL has messed us around but a lot of it has been out of their control.  I'm pretty sure the AFL asked clubs their preferences at different times.  The more successful teams (wins and/or members) got pandered to more.  We aren't one of those and it was bad luck we were slated to a Syd hub first up then had to move.

If the idea of the Travel Table is the impact of travel on Wins/Losses, including the # days breaks and travel of our opp in each round would give a broader base on which to draw conclusions.  Bit short of time to do that comparison this morning but might give it a go for the dees, later.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Engorged Onion 9,343]

11 minutes ago, Billy said:

Good idea, let’s give the players & supporters another excuse for the pathetic performances that have been the norm over the last 56 years

The MFC Number 1 in deflection of blame

I'm sure you're hurting @Billy - and that's ok. 

But as I'm not a staff member of the MFC - they're not deflecting blame. Actually, nor am I. 

This is a sense making tool... and it's fine that you see it as an excuse.

[sue 8,445]

7 minutes ago, Billy said:

Good idea, let’s give the players & supporters another excuse for the pathetic performances that have been the norm over the last 56 years

The MFC Number 1 in deflection of blame

This attitude is a bit like congratulating the Black Knight for not making excuses as his limbs are lopped off.   Of course there is always a danger of hiding behind excuses but it is equally foolish to ignore facts which may be valid reasons contributing to poor performance.   I suspect if the team bus was hit by a meteorite there'd be some saying excuses excuses.  

And I don't care if supporters want to comfort themselves by making 'excuses'. We have negligible influence and need to maintain our sanity.  Players and coaches are another matter of course.

 

[Engorged Onion 9,343]

10 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I think I've missed one.  For the 7 I could find my thoughts are:

• Perth round 1 - we had a month or two to recover.
• Sydney Hub - to be our 'Home' for the rest of the season.
• Qld Hub - this wasn't in the hub plan.  We had to relocate on short notice because Qld were closing its borders to NSW,
• Adel 2 games - the club made a good travel decision by staying in Adel for the North game. 
• Alice - the asked for this to get the $700k from the NT gov't.  
• Cairns - we were one of the few teams that hadn't played both Syd and Freo who are hubbed there.  The club made a good travel decision by staying in Adel
• Qld hub.

Can I ask how the count is done eg I count 4 for Carlton: Melb to Qld Hub to Perth to Darwin to Qld Hub.  And for Adelaide I count 6-7 as they have flown out of Adel to Qld for their away games in the latter part of the season.  Haven't looked at any others.

If the idea is the impact of travel on Wins/Losses, the # days breaks and travel of our opp in each round would give a broader base on which to draw conclusions.

Bit short of time to do that comparison this morning but might give it a go for the dees, later.

Lucifer - I did it quite quick and I suspect there are some inaccuracies..ie: the notion of Geelong flying to Perth, hubbing it up and then up to QLD.

Good point re: Adelaide - I merely looked at round by round fixtures to ascertain if they played in the same state. 

I guess I was looking at it in a compressed fixtures situation. Essentially Melbourne had 14 days of travel from July 6th to September 2nd.

Rubbish data in...rubbish results  I'll spend a bit more time this afternoon- reconciling some of the data.

 

[Lucifers Hero 37,131]

24 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Lucifer - I did it quite quick and I suspect there are some inaccuracies..ie: the notion of Geelong flying to Perth, hubbing it up and then up to QLD.

Good point re: Adelaide - I merely looked at round by round fixtures to ascertain if they played in the same state. 

I guess I was looking at it in a compressed fixtures situation. Essentially Melbourne had 14 days of travel from July 6th to September 2nd.

Rubbish data in...rubbish results  I'll spend a bit more time this afternoon- reconciling some of the data.

Thanks.  Your underlying point is still valid:  I have little doubt we will have the worst travel schedule. 

I was planning to do the #breaks/travel for our opps before I saw this thread as I suspect it (and fatigue) will be a much debated topic, especially if we miss finals.  

I'll p m it to you to look at but it may not be til mid afternoon.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, Billy said:

Good idea, let’s give the players & supporters another excuse for the pathetic performances that have been the norm over the last 56 years

The MFC Number 1 in deflection of blame

That's slightly harsh.  I don't think @Engorged Onion is using it as an excuse.  And I don't think any Melbourne supporter really wants excuses anymore.  What we've served up recently is inexcusable.

However, the above table is something that can't be ignored, as its fact.  Has all that travel begun to catch up with us a little, and contributed slightly to our recent performances?  Probably.

But if we miss finals, it won't save Goodwin's job I'd say.  He can't go in and complain about the travel and so forth.  He has to own it.  But, for us supporters, there is some merit in what Engorged has posted.

[Clintosaurus 6,470]

The players are human, and constantly moving would have a significant effect. I never sleep properly the first night anywhere away from home, and unlike other clubs, the team have pretty much not stayed in the same location for more than a week at a time.

Players in other sports such as NBA or cricket are used to it, but AFL players are not. Experienced ones like Dangerfield will deal with it better, and also clubs with a lot of experienced players (Geelong, Port, Richmond).

[Scipio 5,868]

1 hour ago, sue said:

This attitude is a bit like congratulating the Black Knight for not making excuses as his limbs are lopped off.   Of course there is always a danger of hiding behind excuses but it is equally foolish to ignore facts which may be valid reasons contributing to poor performance.   I suspect if the team bus was hit by a meteorite there'd be some saying excuses excuses.  

And I don't care if supporters want to comfort themselves by making 'excuses'. We have negligible influence and need to maintain our sanity.  Players and coaches are another matter of course.

 

Always the voice of reason sue, well said.

[Scipio 5,868]

3 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

The players are human, and constantly moving would have a significant effect. I never sleep properly the first night anywhere away from home, and unlike other clubs, the team have pretty much not stayed in the same location for more than a week at a time.

Players in other sports such as NBA or cricket are used to it, but AFL players are not. Experienced ones like Dangerfield will deal with it better, and also clubs with a lot of experienced players (Geelong, Port, Richmond).

I second this, and not to mention there have been a couple of game days where they are waking at 4am or 5am, catching a bus and then a flight, and then flying back to the hub to return to the hotel by 3am. The ripple effect from huge days like that can be felt for some time.

[titan_uranus 22,451]

This adds to the data I was looking at on the fixture - in addition to league-leading flights and kms covered, we had the equal most four day breaks, the most states/territories played in, the most venues played in, the least number of consecutive games in the one place, and no more than 3 games all year at any one venue.

[sue 8,445]

31 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

This adds to the data I was looking at on the fixture - in addition to league-leading flights and kms covered, we had the equal most four day breaks, the most states/territories played in, the most venues played in, the least number of consecutive games in the one place, and no more than 3 games all year at any one venue.

I'd add to this the 2 teams which had a bye when they didn't need one and didn't get one when they did need it.  With these 'frenzies' it must be important to get a week off. We and EFC did not. Both have gone down the tube recently.

[Lucifers Hero 37,131]

Here is a table which summarises our travel and # days break since we had to Melbourne after round 5.  For those counting trips add round 1 to Perth.

It shows how we compare to our opp in each round rather than compare the season in total.

E&OE

Please let me know if you see any errors.

Edit:  this is intended as a discussion tool rather than a view of whether we were badly done by travel or the question of fatigue.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[SFebes 4,692]

9 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Here is a table which summarises our travel and # days break since we had to Melbourne after round 5.  For those counting trips add round 1 to Perth.

It shows our we compare to our opp in each round rather than compare the season in total.

E&OE

Please let me know if you see any errors.

So we've had 3 more days break and 1 less day of travel v opponents? Not so bad afterall eh. Also, 3 x 4day breaks for us vs 4 for our opponents. No excuse! Plus 2 of the opponents 4 day breaks have been when we've had 6.

Edited September 9, 2020 by SFebes

[Lucifers Hero 37,131]

2 minutes ago, SFebes said:

So we've had 3 more days break and 1 less day of travel v opponents? Not so bad afterall eh.

The good news is if the '4 day break = a loss' experience for many clubs holds this week, we should beat Giants!

[SFebes 4,692]

Just now, Lucifer's Hero said:

The good news is if the '4 day break = a loss' experience for many clubs holds this week, we should beat Giants!

Um no, we will still find a way to break that record this year!

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

It plays a part the short breaks and the big one in the last 5 rounds is the constant traveling and lack of continuous days in 1 spot to get into a routine.

Those saying interstate teams do it all the time, they do but that's every second week and a routine they are set in over a number of years and generally with set fixtures released the October before the season starts.

Don't get me wrong there are other issues but to say it hasn't been a factor is nonsense

[Grimes Times 1,278]

42 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Here is a table which summarises our travel and # days break since we had to Melbourne after round 5.  For those counting trips add round 1 to Perth.

It shows how we compare to our opp in each round rather than compare the season in total.

E&OE

Please let me know if you see any errors.

Another thing to note is when we have played at Metricon we have traveled down the day before and stayed overnight close to the ground to avoid a 3hr+ bus trip while the Lions traveled 30 mins from Brisbane and the WB 5 mins from there hub. Not to mention the extra late nights travelling back from Bris airport to hub from Alice and Adel.

[Lucifers Hero 37,131]

1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

Another thing to note is when we have played at Metricon we have traveled down the day before and stayed overnight close to the ground to avoid a 3hr+ bus trip while the Lions traveled 30 mins from Brisbane and the WB 5 mins from there hub. Not to mention the extra late nights travelling back from Bris airport to hub from Alice and Adel.

Agreed, there was only so much I could fit into a table. 

It is more of a discussion tool than a view on whether we were well done by or not.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Skuit 9,196]

Can someone do a table on the number of beds each teams' players have slept in during the course of the season and the average number of consecutive nights slept in each bed? It's maybe tongue-in-cheek but I do think this would provide the most indicative metric of our travel burden as opposed to simply the physical boarding of flights. A two hour flight in of itself shouldn't take too much of a toll. 

Pennant hit the key word earlier in 'routine'. It would be one of the most consistent points made by champions across all sports. All teams have been disrupted this year but our schedule has more closely resembled a band on tour (or travelling circus for the cynics). Consecutive games in Adelaide and Cairns sound great, but it feels like we've been on the road for the entirety of the season. 

Compare for instance the feeling of having stayed for just four weeks alone at a single base, even with a fly-in fly-out interstate trip or two? I hadn't heard it before but I'm staggered to learn we've also been over-nighting on the Gold Coast before our Metricon games. I get that this has all come about due in part to circumstance and our own requirements - but it's a valid lens by which to assess the season. 

 

[Redleg 37,689]

6 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Can someone do a table on the number of beds each teams' players have slept in during the course of the season and the average number of consecutive nights slept in each bed? It's maybe tongue-in-cheek but I do think this would provide the most indicative metric of our travel burden as opposed to simply the physical boarding of flights. A two hour flight in of itself shouldn't take too much of a toll. 

Pennant hit the key word earlier in 'routine'. It would be one of the most consistent points made by champions across all sports. All teams have been disrupted this year but our schedule has more closely resembled a band on tour (or travelling circus for the cynics). Consecutive games in Adelaide and Cairns sound great, but it feels like we've been on the road for the entirety of the season. 

Compare for instance the feeling of having stayed for just four weeks alone at a single base, even with a fly-in fly-out interstate trip or two? I hadn't heard it before but I'm staggered to learn we've also been over-nighting on the Gold Coast before our Metricon games. I get that this has all come about due in part to circumstance and our own requirements - but it's a valid lens by which to assess the season. 

 

We have had probably the worst run in routine of any club, changing venues and travelling more than any other club in the AFL. 

[Skuit 9,196]

Another point - and an ironic reversal of 2019: Is missing the finals last year detrimental to teams this year? It's been a bloody long season (and it seems we put in a massive pre-season too) and those teams which started their pre-seasons later are probably better placed to cope with mental fatigue right now. Small advantages make a difference in this competition. 

[Clintosaurus 6,470]

Just read the AFL are letting the Bulldogs fly to Cairns the day before they play Freo in Round 18. What a joke. We were not allowed to, and the article says the club were furious at being forced to travel on game day. Dogs also fly to Adelaide the day before this weekend too.

Anyone think the whole thing is not rigged?