I watched this & it’s so damning & basically they are saying we lack Steel, soft and can’t be trusted as it’s due to our DNA. Would be great to have Goodwin, Pert & Bartlett get interviewed by these guys & ask the hard questions. 

Absolutely right , it is in the Demon DNA.

How to fix it?  Well its been over 50 years and nobody has come up with a solution.

Northey had the solution. It's called a red hot go.

Its burns me hearing this because its true, i heard Derm discussing the Dees before the Swans game nailing every single facet and detail where we fall down. 

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Win4theAges

I liked the bit where Slobbo urged us to give L Hodge a call over the next couple of months.

Anyone gotta link to the segment on Fox Footy?

 

I don't have it.

I am interested in hearing what they have to say. No matter how unpleasant it may be.

Either way, we need to face harsh realities head on and fix these fundamental issues with the Melbourne Demons DNA. Otherwise, this cancerous "soft as butter" mentality will kill our club.

 

Demons President Glenn Bartlett needs to make some tough decisions in the near future. I like him as our President, he is different from traditional Melbourne supporters, being originally from Western Australia and played over 150 games for the East Perth Royals and 4 games for the West Coast Eagles. He also seems to have vision and wants to build our new headquarters. I hope he will show strong leadership when things need to either change or stay the same.

 

I actually agree with Robbo that we should definitely give Luke Hodge a call.

 

Fixing this weak culture will help with everything else we need to fix at the club and will allow us to start doing what we need to be doing which is breaking our 55 year Premiership drought.

No point sugar coating our problems. We need to drive these changes at the club and support others that also want to do the same.

 

We definitely need to listen to those who provide constructive criticism and look to reflect on ways to fundamentally improve the Melbourne Football Club.

 

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Supreme_Demon
spelling

We can be trusted. Our results vs the top five, who IMO are a cut above the rest of the comp, are 0 wins and 5 losses.

The rest of our season has been 7-2. That's basically bang-on for a team fighting for a spot in finals, which is exactly what we are.

Hardwick somehow changed the culture at the tigers.. they lost the last game in 2016 by over 100 points. 

Meh.
Dermie is a punch drunk alpha who absolutely and openly loathes the MFC and will take every opportunity to sink the boots in, rain or shine. 

King is a statistics sycophant who flip flops with his convictions depending on the tide of public opinion like a chameleon. 

And Robbo, with his penchant for RTDs, can hardly string a sentence together, let alone form a coherent argument. He’s lucky to get his pants on each day. 
 

Whilst there is likely truth in their observations, I’m not placing too much weight on what these muppets opine. 
 

4 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Meh.
Dermie is a punch drunk alpha who absolutely and openly loathes the MFC and will take every opportunity to sink the boots in, rain or shine. 

King is a statistics sycophant who flip flops with his convictions depending on the tide of public opinion like a chameleon. 

And Robbo, with his penchant for RTDs, can hardly string a sentence together, let alone form a coherent argument. He’s lucky to get his pants on each day. 
 

Whilst there is likely truth in their observations, I’m not placing too much weight on what these muppets opine. 
 

Normally I’d agree with your response to the three ‘experts’ but in reality, after watching the aforementioned discussion, I think they nailed it on the head.

They used words like fickle, untrustworthy, flaky, mentally weak, and actually named Fritsch, and Salem, as prime examples, and the playing of an obviously injured Jones against Sydney as further evidence 

i personally had no argument with their cases

6 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Anyone gotta link to the segment on Fox Footy?

 

I don't have it.

I am interested in hearing what they have to say. No matter how unpleasant it may be.

Either way, we need to face harsh realities head on and fix these fundamental issues with the Melbourne Demons DNA. Otherwise, this cancerous "soft as butter" mentality will kill our club.

 

Demons President Glenn Bartlett needs to make some tough decisions in the near future. I like him as our President, he is different from traditional Melbourne supporters, being originally from Western Australia and played over 150 games for the East Perth Royals and 4 games for the West Coast Eagles. He also seems to have vision and wants to build our new headquarters. I hope he will show strong leadership when things need to either change or stay the same.

 

I actually agree with Robbo that we should definitely give Luke Hodge a call.

 

Fixing this weak culture will help with everything else we need to fix at the club and will allow us to start doing what we need to be doing which is breaking our 55 year Premiership drought.

No point sugar coating our problems. We need to drive these changes at the club and support others that also want to do the same.

 

We definitely need to listen to those who provide constructive criticism and look to reflect on ways to fundamentally improve the Melbourne Football Club.

 

Sadly for us Bartlett says he wants to build a home base but has achieved nothing on that score worth telling the supporters.

It is close to impossible to fix our culture in the society of 2020. The demands the likes of Kennedy insisted upon to build a 60 year culture at the Hawks would be unreasonable today. However I think you start individually and collectively with eliminating persistent error or poor execution and attitude. To what extent you go to zero tolerance on some things is up for debate. Perhaps this is why Goody struggles. He came from a Club in adelaide that was artificially created with local players, many stars. The thing they had in common with SA was out to prove itself and they were representing a whole State. Since Ports inception it is hard to know what Adelaides culture is. And then to Essendon with its stinking, cheating culture. Years ago i would have got Dipper involved in a role at the Club. He was the perfect balance between driving standards, hard work and light heartedness. Same for Dermie and a host of other Hawks.

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Half forward flank

This belief that we can’t be trusted to grit the tough wins and solidify finals spots is nothing new at all. I loved the Rev and we had some great years with him but we were so good at choking at bad moments. It just became what you expected and really we have always found a way to make bottom 4 sides look like their top 4 sides. 

Zero idea how to rectify it because we really see to have it ingrained in every facet of the club including the fans. 

6 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Hardwick somehow changed the culture at the tigers.. they lost the last game in 2016 by over 100 points. 

Hardwick's offensive comments (to Longmire and Ox) and his player's antics this year suggests the culture has not changed:  think Martin, Connors, King in the not too distant past.

The success of 2017 to 2019 simply enabled them to keep their dirty laundry in the cupboard.  Even then some became public:  Martin and the chopsticks. 

Culture anywhere is notoriously difficult to change.  It gets passed down from one group to the next.  Its built into the folklore of a club.  And often it becomes a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' be it good or bad.  The cycle keeps repeating.

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Hardwick's offensive comments and his player's antics this year suggests the culture has not changed:  think Martin, Connors, King.

The success of 2017 to 2019 simply enabled them to keep their dirty laundry in the cupboard.

Jahhhheesus @Lucifer's Hero - that's a long bow.  Connors was packed off early. You got to remember all players come from all sections of society. There are 38 others and all the staff that are on the north side of being decent, caring, compassionate, passionate people. So I think it's unfair to tarnish others, just because they work for the same organisation.

Posters on this site bemoan that we don't have mongrel, that 'we're not hard enough'... that the soft culture is cancerous ([censored] hilarious analogy that one). But on the flip side it's a fine line between prickish or arrogant behaviour, or self belief.

We flogged off Jack Watts, Jesse Hogan et al for 'cultural reasons'.... as we're erred on the side of caring for the welfare of said indivduals and erring on the side of trying to curb influences that would poorly affect performance...ie: genuine commitment.

The trade off is always individual talent and what that contributes to the team overall, whilst trying to mitigate poor elements of said individuals personality and its influence on others.

Ps... if it's in our 'DNA' - then we all understand that we can't change it.... so supporting our club is fatalism at it's finest whilst the world collapses around us

 

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

7 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Anyone gotta link to the segment on Fox Footy?

 

I don't have it.

I am interested in hearing what they have to say. No matter how unpleasant it may be.

Either way, we need to face harsh realities head on and fix these fundamental issues with the Melbourne Demons DNA. Otherwise, this cancerous "soft as butter" mentality will kill our club.

 

Demons President Glenn Bartlett needs to make some tough decisions in the near future. I like him as our President, he is different from traditional Melbourne supporters, being originally from Western Australia and played over 150 games for the East Perth Royals and 4 games for the West Coast Eagles. He also seems to have vision and wants to build our new headquarters. I hope he will show strong leadership when things need to either change or stay the same.

 

I actually agree with Robbo that we should definitely give Luke Hodge a call.

 

Fixing this weak culture will help with everything else we need to fix at the club and will allow us to start doing what we need to be doing which is breaking our 55 year Premiership drought.

No point sugar coating our problems. We need to drive these changes at the club and support others that also want to do the same.

 

We definitely need to listen to those who provide constructive criticism and look to reflect on ways to fundamentally improve the Melbourne Football Club.

 

Seriously, clubs review formally and informally every. single. week. 

Also, if anyone is an expert in culture and change management on this forum - walk us  through what 'weak culture' is and what are the steps to remedy it. I want to be enlightened.

 

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion

26 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Hardwick's offensive comments (to Longmire and Ox) and his player's antics this year suggests the culture has not changed:  think Martin, Connors, King in the not too distant past.

The success of 2017 to 2019 simply enabled them to keep their dirty laundry in the cupboard.  Even then some became public:  Martin and the chopsticks. 

Culture anywhere is notoriously difficult to change.  It gets passed down from one group to the next.  Its built into the folklore of a club.  And often it becomes a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' be it good or bad.  The cycle keeps repeating.

Until it doesnt.

Plenty of examples where that is the case. 

Watching it. I couldn’t believe how much disdain was expressed when Robbo was muttering. Have we somehow offended him by being irrelevant and untrustworthy on field?

6 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

 

Whilst there is likely truth in their observations, I’m not placing too much weight on what these muppets opine. 

Deemented said it perfectly. Need the opinions of qualified people in psychology and also change management 

Maybe I am a bit ragey this morning, but here is Port Adelaides Ladder position since 2013 under Ken.

Now if winning games is indicative of good culture (which is isn't, that is just mythologised  and a conceptual way for us to make sense of what drives performance)

I highly doubt there must have been some 'magical' cutural changes between October 2019 and March 2020... 

So if it is not culture, what is it that's propelled the change??

 

55% winning rate.

2013  7th

2014  6th

2015  10th

2016 10th

2017 10th

2018 5th

2019 10th

2020 1st (currently)

 

 

9 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Absolutely right , it is in the Demon DNA.

How to fix it?  Well its been over 50 years and nobody has come up with a solution.

This is spot on. We have had good enough teams since our last flag and if this team got photoshopped into other club colours our fade outs and underachievement would vanish. So are our AFL players just journeymen on fat contracts? Look at the players after the games, they are all best mates.  If Clarkson had coached Melbourne the last ten years he would no doubt have been consigned to the scrapheap, so it's not just about the coach.  We just seem to rise to a certain level of achievement and then blancmange back into our previous state of mediocrity. Get sick of it after a few decades because the cycle of failure is so routine.

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Jahhhheesus @Lucifer's Hero - that's a long bow.  Connors was packed off early. You got to remember all players come from all sections of society. There are 38 others and all the staff that are on the north side of being decent, caring, compassionate, passionate people. So I think it's unfair to tarnish others, just because they work for the same organisation.

I'm reluctant to comment as culture is so complex.  But here goes:

I didn't refer to 'weak or 'soft, 'good' or 'untrustworthy' culture.  I'm not sure culture can even be compartmentalised like that.

My reference to Dusty/Connors/King wasn't about their behaviours per se, as you say people are basically decent and anyone can make mistakes. 

Using those examples was to highlight Rich and the AFL keeping dirty lanundry in-house and covering it up, downplaying an incident if it becomes public or if they have to, use a 'wet lettuce'.   Connors was an exception.  Notice Dusty didn't get the same treatment for the same behaviour.  Stack is in the same boat as Connors;  would senior players have been expelled for the finals series?  The cultural message to players is 'if you get into strife its ok, we will whitewash it (unless your are an unimportant player and can be dispensed with).  A 'good' culture would say:  you get in strife you wear the consequences, regardless of who you are.

Most clubs try and keep dirty laundry in house.  I referred to Richmond because of the assumption that their recent on field success equates to 'good' culture.

From the outside it seems to me that part of Richmond's culture (whitewashing dirty laundry) hasn't changed during their successful years. 

Edited September 5, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I'm no tactical genius and I've found that the Game plans, tactics and all that jazz thread on DL to be far more informative than anything I've heard from any tv pundit this season. 

I wish we had someone with Steven May's presence and drive to win on each line of our team to help drive standards on game day. 

Im wary of passing pyshcological judgement on players. What seems pyschological is usually a mix of the game style being implemented,  talent levels of the players implementing it and the players relationship to the coach. I think we've known for a while  that we have serious issues with the first 2 and as you look at some of the vision from that game  very possibly with the third. Im still holding hope that the players are with Goody but we'll soon see on monday. 

Who cares that people think Derms a [censored] but gee he was spot on in his comments about us in the first quarter against the swans his comments are usually spot on regarding special comments.

Robbo is just a [censored] of a man who just wants to be something important never will be.

King is just starting to rely on stats as a conversation football is a lot more than that.

 

Would be great to hear from Jordan Lewis who come from winning 4 flags plus 3 in a row as to what he saw/felt were the differences in culture between the clubs..