In my 5 decades of following the Dees, the only time I felt confident about our mental state was with Northey as coach. I have been on a psychological roller coaster ever since.

Even though Balme had us playing great footy, and Daniher  was an inspiring and natural leader, there has been a continuing underbelly of mental fragility. And it is not only about players and lists, but from Presidents, CEO's and administrations.

But in regards to games, we have a 30-40 year habit or working bloody hard to get ourselves into finals contention, only to mentally disintegrate against very weak opponents. And it has never been worse, than in the years after we sacked Dean Bailey. Even Paul roos couldn't fully get us to overcome it.

And I'm sick and tired of it to the Nth degree.  

16 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

What a blunder that was.  Effectively the Roos appointment 7 years earlier and probably would have stayed for 5 or more.  And a great replacement following on from Danners who at least had us up and about every other year before losing any of that bit of momentum.  This club has a penchant for picking the worst conceivable options far too often (ie; wet behind the ear newbie coaches), which leads us to, our present horribilis... 

Dead right Rusty..You have to Spend Money to Make Money

In the last 20 Years we have Balked at a Training Base and a Master Coach, and we still are in the wilderness

This thread and SWYL are a match made in heaven!

38 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

This thread and SWYL are a match made in heaven!

Is that the best you have to offer? 
Or should we all just accept the yearly crap ? Moonie 

What is it to be??

22 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Is that the best you have to offer? 
Or should we all just accept the yearly crap ? Moonie 

What is it to be??

You love it WYL, something to whine about and carp on with a raised fist. 

You would not know what to do with yourself if by chance we were to win a flag 

3 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

You love it WYL, something to whine about and carp on with a raised fist. 

You would not know what to do with yourself if by chance we were to win a flag 

Oh yes i would.
 

I just hate The MFC being crap ? 

And we do it with such great Regularity 

Clockwork in fact. Last night it was from the First Bounce

A club with a history of being mentally weak is rubbish imo.

If we had the same players, coaches and administrators over the last 56 years I’d believe it but we continually make changes to all in order to try improve. Unfortunately with us however it’s one step forwards one step backwards at present.

I don’t believe players like Trac, Olly, Viney, May, Lever, Gawn are mentally weak at all. They all have there flaws which get exposed at times but good teams can cover a star player underperforming on week.

I’m 36 and followed the dees closely my whole life and In my opinion, there is not once I’ve ever looked at a dees team and thought “Wow, this team looks amazing and will clearly be top 4 this year.”

We’ve never had a super team like Brisbane, Hawthorn, Geelong or Essendon did in there little eras over the last 25 years and the only way we’d get a flag would be to fluke it like the doggies but we blew that chance in 2018.

We do need to get our foundations sorted more than anything. An elite base where players would want to train and improve there development. Furthermore, somewhere free agents find attractive.

Our talent (and coaching at times) has always been the issue for mine, not this mentallly weak rubbish.

It depends how you define mentally weak. I would say that, in general, we are no more or less weak than other sides. Everyone focuses on the immediate past (which was obviously unacceptable) but between the Port game and this one we’d put 3 poor sides to sword and struggled over the top of St Kilda. Teams will have inconsistent performances this season given the nature of the challenge. Honestly, who here at the start of the season was predicting a top 6 finish?

I feel like there is a core of posters here that would find fault if we won every game by 10 goals. It’s simply not realistic. There are times where you come out flat and you get beaten. You cannot be up every game. The margins between sides are incredibly slim - it doesn’t take much to get found out.

What the team lacks is a cadre of super experienced leaders (think Hodge & Lewis, or Dangerfield and Selwood) who can turn the tide when things aren’t going our way. Top teams don’t go goalless in a quarter, or concede 5 in a row - they change things and find a way - and it’s always easier when you’ve done it together for 100 games. That’s what we’re missing.

yesterday defeat was a compilation of a lot of a lot of the same old issues:

- players believing they only need to turn up to beat a bottom side, only have them have their a**e kicked

- not understanding how to play the wind. I understand we turned up a few hours before the game while the Swans turned up earlier, i expect they had a lot more chance to understand the ground and the wind. Even after watching the Swans kick goal after goal with the wind in the second quarter we still could not know how to use it in the 3rd quarter or 4th quarter

- Players slow to move the ball, too busy looking for the easy backward or cross the ground pass. Missing easy targets i.e. langdons kick out in the last few minutes straight to a swans player by himself is a prime example

- Minutes to go in the game and our players show no urgency when marking and going back to kick for goal the extra 15 seconds they took certainly didnt help their accuracy.

- Not manning up when the opposition has the ball and wants to waste time.

- Players and the so called hollywood handpasses. the move it on at all costs, is killing us with turnover after turnover.

- poor kicking for goal from some Fritch,Langdon, Gawn, Jones, etc....

- Almost total lack of forward pressure

- lack of chasing, lack of tackles, and overall pressure on the opposition or ball carriers, they swans players danced around us like our players were witches hats

- damn stupid zone defense, which running sides use to effect to cut us to ribbons with the running overlap because our players dont chase.

- picking the same old failures or out of form players time and time again, ANB, Jones, OMac, smith and probably wagner.

- Too many experienced players not stepping up or missing Weiderman, Viney, brayshaw, jones, melksham

- handpassing instead of kicking.

and lets throw coaching in there though i blame all of the above things that go on the ground before the coaching. 

Yes we are

 mental midgets.

why can’t AFL players reliably kick goals from set shots?

Edited September 4, 20204 yr by Coq au vin

11 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Poor habits and poor concentration. Every club has off days kicking but the contenders turn up switched on from the first bounce, lay tackles, compete hard. You can tell with this team early in the game what you’re going to get. The missed tackles and lazy efforts from last night set the tone. No one on the field calls it out. No one (including Max) seems to be able to rouse the team, shift momentum. Subconsciously we accept this standard.

We need leaders in the coaches box and on the field that maintain standards and demand others meet them or else. The best example I can think from another sport is Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane. Keane captained Man United in the EPL for years. All his ex-team mates say he was relentless. He demanded excellence, every minute, every training session, every game. If you fell short he let you know. New recruits got the treatment early if they didn’t track back or mis-placed a pass. He mirrored the personality of his manager Alex Ferguson who was an uncompromising, hard as flint, Scottish SOB. 

Alastair Clarkson has these qualities. Ross Lyons too but he seems to wear the players out with a rigid game plan. There may be others but they are not obvious to me. Player wise, Melbourne obviously don’t have the right characters at the moment. Perhaps Viney with the right coach. Max leads by example but he’s not a mongrel. Steven May possibly, but he’s too prone to lapses and his professionalism is questionable. Some of the younger players may have the right stuff but they need leaders and mentors at the club to show the way.

Until we have the right coach and enough players with the right character we won’t improve. With the right leadership execution, effort, kicking will all follow.

100% Think Pendles and Bucks, Hodge and Clarke, Cotchin and Hardwick - all great coach captain great combos of late.

I always loved that about Viney - he just had that hard uncompromising edge about him. Feel like taking the captaincy away from him as was voted by his peers says a lot about the playing group and perhaps they weren’t prepared to put in what Viney was demanding of them.

Love Max, but his larrikin attitude just gives the wrong vibe. Don’t get me wrong he could be a fantastic leader and demand high standards - I can only go by what I see in the media. But I Just go back to May’s presser post PA and thought that’s what I’d expect a captain to do. Even if it was scheduled , I demand the spotlight.

Without a shadow of doubt.
The years of evidence is damning.

 

No we are not  mentally weak as we have had 2 four day turn arounds and another coming up l think that would be the most or equal most of any clubs.

It is starting to catch up with us and we are up against it. We somehow have to turn up and beat Fremantle and have a proper break and refresh for  the most important home and away  game  against GWS  and  switched on if we are a chance to play finals. 

My prognosis......... Goody is mostly to blame has become too close to the players and good coaches have a hard edge alla Clarkson even Norm Smith he had the hardest of edges Fagan goes off and he knows when to do it. These coaches carry respect.

Goody wants to be  mates with the players and l believe that makes a recipe for disaster.  IMO A weakness !

 

Edited September 4, 20204 yr by nosoupforme

3 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

In my 5 decades of following the Dees, the only time I felt confident about our mental state was with Northey as coach. I have been on a psychological roller coaster ever since.

Even though Balme had us playing great footy, and Daniher  was an inspiring and natural leader, there has been a continuing underbelly of mental fragility. And it is not only about players and lists, but from Presidents, CEO's and administrations.

But in regards to games, we have a 30-40 year habit or working bloody hard to get ourselves into finals contention, only to mentally disintegrate against very weak opponents. And it has never been worse, than in the years after we sacked Dean Bailey. Even Paul roos couldn't fully get us to overcome it.

And I'm sick and tired of it to the Nth degree.  

You are not alone!

Ever? Don't know about that. University in 1909 was notoriously fragile.

2 hours ago, CYB said:

100% Think Pendles and Bucks, Hodge and Clarke, Cotchin and Hardwick - all great coach captain great combos of late.

I always loved that about Viney - he just had that hard uncompromising edge about him. Feel like taking the captaincy away from him as was voted by his peers says a lot about the playing group and perhaps they weren’t prepared to put in what Viney was demanding of them.

Love Max, but his larrikin attitude just gives the wrong vibe. Don’t get me wrong he could be a fantastic leader and demand high standards - I can only go by what I see in the media. But I Just go back to May’s presser post PA and thought that’s what I’d expect a captain to do. Even if it was scheduled , I demand the spotlight.

You're kidding right?

Viney isn't a captains [censored]. One of the most selfish players on our list and only has one thought during games and that's himself.

I know Goody doesn't have the balls to do it, but he should be dropped on performance alone. Has been poor the last several weeks.

Best decision the club made was taking the captaincy off him. Shouldn't even got it in the first place.

On 9/3/2020 at 7:43 PM, WERRIDEE said:

It has to be asked. We got ahead of ourselves again, managed a player when we said we wouldn't that already tells me that we thought we had it won before the ball was bounced. Skeptical selections in Oscar, Smith, Jones and ANB. Missing 2 sitters by Gawn and Langdon when we could have stolen it. Only 2 players played well again in Gawn and Langdon. When is this [censored] going to stop?

Answer to question is YES! Totally mentally WEAK!

The answer for this group of players is yes they are mentally soft. Downhill skiers who drink their own bathwater is not fair but they seem satisfied with minor achievements. Iy is irrelevant to look back over the last 50 years because ever era is different and the club has not been well managed over that time.

This group is talented, have the best resources and are fitter than ever. Despite the criticism among his peers Goodwin is considered a good coach but I think on match day he is not a tactician or innovator. We don't tackle and our game falls away under intense pressure.

I watch the lions with 2 down on the bench from half time guts out a win. Every player contributed. They went hard, harassed the opposition and to quote John Northey "had a red hot go". The same can be said for Richmond. As much as I dislike them, they have a system and everybody buys in and have a manic attack on the ball. If someone is injured another comes in and plays their role. I suspect Melbourne may have more talent, and these teams turn over the ball as much as we do, make mistakes and often do not kick straight but they never give away easy goals and every player is prepared to commit to the plan and contribute and persist. We do not!
 When we get into a good position we are unable to lift to that next level when teams come after us. I put that down to lack of leadership, attitude, commitment and being happy to play pretty football and be an AFL player which I define as mentally soft.

The mental toughness needed first has to come from the coach who must be prepared to draw a line in the sand and insist on buy in and those who won't commit, move on. I do not want to hear him say that quarter was not AFL standard again it is an excuse I can no longer bear. 

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're kidding right?

Viney isn't a captains [censored]. One of the most selfish players on our list and only has one thought during games and that's himself.

I know Goody doesn't have the balls to do it, but he should be dropped on performance alone. Has been poor the last several weeks.

Best decision the club made was taking the captaincy off him. Shouldn't even got it in the first place.

And who would you have as captain then? 

5 hours ago, CYB said:

And who would you have as captain then? 

Steven May

12 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

You love it WYL, something to whine about and carp on with a raised fist. 

You would not know what to do with yourself if by chance we were to win a flag 

Far from me to tell you what to do, but I've blocked him... and then I open his blocked posts and my confirmation bias is proved right.

It's as though he is personally offended that the club owes him something...always posting version of harden the [censored] up, or #noexcuses. 

If you're angry at someone - 100% of the time you're actually angry at yourself.

I've posted it before - but when I read @Sir Why You Little posts - I alway have this bloke in my head

'Hardest man' in the world voice, for the 'hardest bloke on Demonland' 

11 hours ago, Deecisive said:

yesterday defeat was a compilation of a lot of a lot of the same old issues:

- players believing they only need to turn up to beat a bottom side, only have them have their a**e kicked

Are you a mindreader? How do you know this? If you have the skill to do so, can you teach me?? Zoom session perhaps?

 

 

Are we a mentally weak supporter base?

The playing list honesty isn’t that great. Whenever you have Wagner, Neal-Bullen and Mitch Brown playing, we should be worried. Spargo & Rivers are babies.

Harmes and Joel Smith have done little to deserve a spot, but we don’t have any better.

2 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Far from me to tell you what to do, but I've blocked him... and then I open his blocked posts and my confirmation bias is proved right.

It's as though he is personally offended that the club owes him something...always posting version of harden the [censored] up, or #noexcuses. 

If you're angry at someone - 100% of the time you're actually angry at yourself.

I've posted it before - but when I read @Sir Why You Little posts - I alway have this bloke in my head

'Hardest man' in the world voice, for the 'hardest bloke on Demonland' 

Thanks EO

It’s a strange one when someone accuses me of enjoying losing. Because i just don’t, but the Club keeps tripping over...

This topic really has merit, and its not conspiracy stuff. Years ago blatant stupidity stood out on the footy field. IE Jones, Blight  etc.

Our team is steadily climbing the stupidity ladder on a game by game basis, which when i reflect on it should not be that easy. When you have a rather lowly opposition laughing about it to their advantage it is quite disturbing.

I'll leave it at that, other than learn the bloody rules as well....