I'll be honest here - when I saw O Mac kick 2 goals as the sub for Carlton on opening night this year, I wished he was the sole McDonald on our list and not Tom.

I may have even posted it in the round 1 non MFC thread.

 

In think his value has been recognised by demonland as demonstrated by his performance in the PotY:

151. Clayton Oliver
141. Christian Petracca
111. Christian Salem
87. Jake Lever
84. Max Gawn
69. Steven May
66. Tom McDonald
63. Ed Langdon
43. Luke Jackson
35. James Harmes
31. Kysiah Pickett

 

Everyone has raved about May and Langdon, so for him to sit between them is a strong result. I think the strong performances of the top 3 make them a pretty clear top 3, but after that it is not much between the next 5.

 

Edit: also I think this year to have 3 defenders in our top 6 is an anomaly compared to previous years, but we have definitely built our game plan on defence rather then attack, so it isn't a surprise that our first forward is down the list a little (and positions 7-11 include 3 forwards). In other years, our leading forward would probably be top 4 or 5.

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by deanox

I loved Toms pleasant chat with a Port supporter on the boundary line and the way he had a crack back at Boak.

He is playing happy football.

 

I've been impressed by Tom Mcdonald's performance this year. By the end of 2020, I was starting to feel very concerned about his future but now I consider him one of the first five players to be picked every week. I understand that Fritsch is our leading goal kicker at the moment but I think that Mcdonald has been our most effective forward. He may not be getting a great deal of attention from the media but he should be in contention for the All Australian squad based on these first 17 games.

Some pretty critical posts on here....

Anyway... I watched Goodwin on AFL 360 last nigh- spruiking how pleased he is where Tom is in his rehab, and have just read this from an article in The Age from Max Gawn...

 

"Premiership key forward Tom McDonald is ready to return to the VFL from injury this week in the qualifying final as he makes a push to be fit and back in the team for the Demons’ finals campaign after the bye.

“I have never seen someone who knows his injuries better. If he thinks he is OK to go, which is what he is telling me – I have seen him when he has said he is not OK as well – [then he is OK to go],” Gawn said."

 

Feels as though they're telegraphing to the public he may get a guernsey against the Swans...

 

Edited August 23, 20222 yr by Engorged Onion

Huge call bringing him back for the QF. Very difficult to be match sharp after such a long layoff. And the most likely to make way is melksham you would think and he’s been very good. Unlikely I reckon 

6 minutes ago, BDA said:

Huge call bringing him back for the QF. Very difficult to be match sharp after such a long layoff. And the most likely to make way is melksham you would think and he’s been very good. Unlikely I reckon 

Agree. So many factors at play. Overall fitness  match fitness, recovery from VFL finals games, team balance, etc.

Aside from these things, is the seriousness of the injury (lisfranc).

Edited August 23, 20222 yr by dee-tox

27 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Some pretty critical posts on here....

Anyway... I watched Goodwin on AFL 360 last nigh- spruiking how pleased he is where Tom is in his rehab, and have just read this from an article in The Age from Max Gawn...

 

"Premiership key forward Tom McDonald is ready to return to the VFL from injury this week in the qualifying final as he makes a push to be fit and back in the team for the Demons’ finals campaign after the bye.

“I have never seen someone who knows his injuries better. If he thinks he is OK to go, which is what he is telling me – I have seen him when he has said he is not OK as well – [then he is OK to go],” Gawn said."

 

Feels as though they're telegraphing to the public he may get a guernsey against the Swans...

 

Listening to Richo on Saturday morning I got the feeling that Tommy is "break glass in case of emergency"...

I doubt we will see him against Sydney but if we lose that game or get a key injury then he will come into the frame.

The only debate now is who will be our medi-sub for the Sydney game (and probably the rest of the finals), as Salem will replace Bowey, otherwise we will be unchanged. Unless there are injuries, there won’t be any changes, as Goodwin has never changed anything that doesn’t need to be changed. He’s spoken about continuity as a reason for improvement and success. I doubt one game would necessarily dent anyone’s spot in the side for the Prelim/Semi anyway. He won’t drop Neal-Bullen for the first time in two years in the finals if he hasn’t already. Bearing injuries, the only player I can see making way for anyone is Spargo, given his low numbers, but his use of the ball is first class and I can’t see Goodwin axing him either to be fair.

Maybe TMac as medi-sub, as he can play anywhere really? His return probably dents any prospect for Joel Smith too. I’d be happy to go this way, orherwise Bowey, pending the situation and opposition.

23 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Aside from these things, is the seriousness of the injury (lisfranc).

It is a serious injury, and I admit to doubting the optimistic timeline of his rehab. BUT, it’s also an injury that can be objectively signed off as fully healed - X-ray, MRI, bone-scan. If this aligns with subjective reportage, fitness, etc, then the risk is frankly minimal, at least of recurrence or aggravation. There can be compensating issues of course, but these will be ironed out through rehab, then with match-play, which he’s getting this weekend. Will be very interesting to see what transpires with Tmac. 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Listening to Richo on Saturday morning I got the feeling that Tommy is "break glass in case of emergency"...

I doubt we will see him against Sydney but if we lose that game or get a key injury then he will come into the frame.

The swans present an interesting challenge defensively with the two mccartin boys.

Both are key to their structure, and their intercept marking is key to their defensive system.

Melksham has been playing the defensive forward role brilliantly. And almost always goes to their most damaging interceptor (curiously he went to payne against the lions rather than Andrews - it's worth noting payne is taller and heavier than both mccartin boys).

So melksham would be perfect on say paddy, who averaged more intercepts than his bro. 

Adding tmac to a forward line that has bb in it, and max or jack resting forward, would then make sure Tom McCartin would have to be accountable and would limit his ability to intercept.

But tmac would also drag his opponent up the ground and out of the back line. That will mess with their defensive structure. They could hand off, but that has risks too - nor least of which being tmac clunking marks at hb or up on the wing

It's that part of tmac's game we have missed the most. You only have to watch how hard bb has had to work in the last 3-4 weeks to get a sense of that.

So, both tmac and melksham could work. But then a forward has to come out. 

No idea who though, because nibbler, spargo, fritter and kozzie are all locks. Sparrow could be the unlucky one in that scenario.

Edited August 23, 20222 yr by binman

1 minute ago, binman said:

Sparrow

He’s the only one I can imagine coming out too. Melky is simply playing his best footy, which is pure and elite X-factor, AND with new-found defensive mojo. No way he’s coming out. I’m already grieving with and for James Jordon, he’s been outstanding this year. Tommy Sparrow exiting would be just as cruel. A fit list means harshly felt absences. 

57 minutes ago, BDA said:

Huge call bringing him back for the QF. Very difficult to be match sharp after such a long layoff. And the most likely to make way is melksham you would think and he’s been very good. Unlikely I reckon 

Heart says bring him back in, the head says no. Maybe the best balanced plan of attack (if he progresses well in rehab / match readiness) is to make him a sub for the GF.  Reason being he is versatile, can play well forward as well as in defence if required 

18 minutes ago, Webber said:

He’s the only one I can imagine coming out too. Melky is simply playing his best footy, which is pure and elite X-factor, AND with new-found defensive mojo. No way he’s coming out. I’m already grieving with and for James Jordon, he’s been outstanding this year. Tommy Sparrow exiting would be just as cruel. A fit list means harshly felt absences. 

Yeah I guess this makes sense - with Trac spending more time forward (with Brayshaw on ball) then he could effectively take Sparrow's midfield minutes.

Would be very rough for Sparrow and Jordon to miss but if TMac is in that seems to be the only way.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Listening to Richo on Saturday morning I got the feeling that Tommy is "break glass in case of emergency"...

I doubt we will see him against Sydney but if we lose that game or get a key injury then he will come into the frame.

Agreed.

We have changed the way  we structure up fwd of centre and i50 delivery.  We are now structured around Max and Petracca in the fwd line.  I would see TMc coming in if Brown, Gawn or Melksham are out for injury.

Given Goodwins desire for consistency and cohesion I doubt he will make selection changes lightly,

I'm not as enamoured as some to bring him in, after all he was dropped for poor form not long before his injury.  But it is great that he can play VFL and be ready if needed.

Edited August 23, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

History has shown that Tmac usually takes a long time to return to peak form after an injury. He needs a block of uninterrupted games to reach his best. Arguably the biggest stumbling block in his career.  And diabolically once he reaches a patch of his best form he gets injured again. Not worth risking unless there are injuries to cover.

Edited August 23, 20222 yr by John Crow Batty

13 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

History has shown that Tmac usually takes a long time to return to peak form after an injury. He needs a block of uninterrupted games to reach his best. Arguably the biggest stumbling block in his career.  And diabolically once he reaches a patch of his best form he gets injured again. Not worth risking unless there are injuries to cover.

Spot on JCB. Whilst I think Tmac is hugely important to our forward line structure, he's had patches of ordinary form, and was dropped this year. He needs more than 1 game at Casey to prove his form and fitness.

With or without Tmac, bombing the ball into our key forwards is a recipe for disaster against the Swans. The McCartin brothers will have a field day. Hitting up leading targets on a regular basis, like we did against the Lions, is a must.

39 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

History has shown that Tmac usually takes a long time to return to peak form after an injury. He needs a block of uninterrupted games to reach his best. Arguably the biggest stumbling block in his career.  And diabolically once he reaches a patch of his best form he gets injured again. Not worth risking unless there are injuries to cover.

I have seen this written a few times now and curious as to how you arrive at this conclusion?

• 2012 played 20 games
• 2013 player 17 games
• 2014 played 21 games
• 2015 played 22 games
• 2016 played 22 games
• 2017 played 22 games
• 2018 played 20 games (starting at rd 6 - next games he had 2, 2, 5, 4, 2, 4, 6 goals)
• 2019 played 15 games (didn't play after rd 16)
• 2020 played 9 games (covid year - he had a poor year along with the club)
• 2021 played 23 games

I think its complete BS frankly.

He has had one poor year and now it is set in stone that TMac takes a long time to get back up to speed. "a stumbling block to his career" you say. "Diabolically once he reaches a patch of his best form he gets injured again"

2018 he didn't start till rd 6 and played well out of the blocks

 

Tom will be fine.

2 hours ago, binman said:

That will mess with their defensive structure.

Would make us too top heavy and mess with our forward structure plus Tom just doesn't have enough football under his belt so would make it even worse.

2 hours ago, Webber said:

He’s the only one I can imagine coming out too. Melky is simply playing his best footy, which is pure and elite X-factor, AND with new-found defensive mojo. No way he’s coming out. I’m already grieving with and for James Jordon, he’s been outstanding this year. Tommy Sparrow exiting would be just as cruel. A fit list means harshly felt absences. 

I think Goody loves Tom Sparrow in the mix because it means we don't lose much physically when we are resting one of our midfield bulls. He is not at the same level of Trac, Clarry or Viney, but he is still a competitive beast and we don't get outmuscled when he's in there, so it allows us to give the other guys a rest, and it especially allows us to give Trac more time up forward.

Frankly I don't see him being dropped. He is too important to the rotation. 

We could bring Tmac in and play Gawn /Jackson behind the ball instead. Still doesn't resolve who drops out. 

Edited August 24, 20222 yr by Jaded No More

20 minutes ago, rjay said:

Would make us too top heavy and mess with our forward structure plus Tom just doesn't have enough football under his belt so would make it even worse.

Yeah, you might well be right.

But the two tall set up has been our preferred model for much of the last two seasons, so i'm not sure about them being overly concerned about being top heavy.

And Tmac's running power in terms of endurance, and the patterns he runs (ie up and down the wing all day) mitigates against being top heavy - and his lack of football for that matter (ie because the fitness required to run the patterns is probably more important than being a bit rusty)

I'm not advocating for his selection, but Goody has flagged him as an option and i'm sure they wont pick him if there is a query about his ability to come back ready to roll. 

Edited August 24, 20222 yr by binman

I don't think he'll be back for the Sydney game and might not even be back for the prelim assuming we win, as they won't want to mess with a forward structure that is working well at the moment.

As others have mentioned, Richo gave the impression on SEN radio that they're not in a massive hurry to rush him back. Mind you it's hard to make unforced changes when you've led a top 4 contender by 66 points at half time.

In terms of T Mac's recovery and game minutes, it will actually be beneficial (just for T Mac not for Casey's flag chances!) for Casey to lose week 1 so he gets a second hit out the weekend we play Sydney. Then he'll be match fit for either an AFL semi or (hopefully) AFL prelim.

We'll all get a better picture after he has a hit out in the VFL but .... it's hard to picture him being match fit for finals level of footy

13 minutes ago, binman said:

Yeah, you might well be right.

But the two tall set up has been our preferred model for much of the last two seasons, so i'm not sure about them being overly concerned about being top heavy.

And Tmac's running power in terms of endurance, and the patterns he runs (ie up and down the wing all day) mitigates against being top heavy - and his lack of football for that matter (ie because the fitness required to run the patterns is probably more important than being a bit rusty)

I'm not advocating for his selection, but Goody has flagged him as an option and i'm sure they wont pick him if there is a query about his ability to come back ready to roll. 

As strange as it seems adding Tommy and keeping Melk does make us top heavy...so if he comes in it's to replace a ruck, BB or Melk...can't take out a mid/small.

Also you would have to wonder if he would have the endurance to run as he used too...he's been off legs for a fair time and no amount of other cardio can make up for miles in the legs...

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I have seen this written a few times now and curious as to how you arrive at this conclusion?

• 2012 played 20 games
• 2013 player 17 games
• 2014 played 21 games
• 2015 played 22 games
• 2016 played 22 games
• 2017 played 22 games
• 2018 played 20 games (starting at rd 6 - next games he had 2, 2, 5, 4, 2, 4, 6 goals)
• 2019 played 15 games (didn't play after rd 16)
• 2020 played 9 games (covid year - he had a poor year along with the club)
• 2021 played 23 games

I think its complete BS frankly.

He has had one poor year and now it is set in stone that TMac takes a long time to get back up to speed. "a stumbling block to his career" you say. "Diabolically once he reaches a patch of his best form he gets injured again"

2018 he didn't start till rd 6 and played well out of the blocks

 

Tom will be fine.

What your stats dont show are times when the club has persisted with him when he has looked sore or has just returned like he did this year and he hasn't worked his way back up to the level expected of him after a number of games ... error on the part of the selection committee at times that should have perhaps rested him and given him time to build up at vfl level ... in any case he is a key to our forward line when fit enough as he competes so hard not expecting change though unless we really struggle

Edited August 24, 20222 yr by Demons1858