1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

If this is our decision it would be a mistake of the highest order.

 

Agreed.

An impassioned plea by one G.Lyon on SEN:

“This is a guy who is not as clean and pure but I talk often about knowing what you are going to get with players which is the number one quality for me.

“You know what you are going to get with him every time. It’s heart, it’s soul, it’s commitment, it’s body on the line, it’s ferocious competitiveness, it’s a refusal to concede.

“I don’t know what’s going through his mind but I know he’s appreciated, loved, wanted and respected and I’d be shattered if he left from a Melbourne point of view,” he added.

“I’ve thought long and hard about it, whether there is some sameness to this midfield, and there is some truth to that but rather than just get rid of some, try and add to it without losing someone of the quality of Jack.

Jnr, I'm with you and Garry.  A Club just doesn't let players like Jack go.  It just doesn't.

Now it makes sense. Three quarter time on the weekend. Crunch time. Gawn and Viney walk to the huddle , not a word spoken between them. Both in their own little world. I expect Viney to go hell for leather these next two weeks to show MFC what they are going to lose. Some may laugh but I reckon if we had recruited Wines and Viney together this situation would never have occured. 

That a club like Geelong see Jack as a replacement player for Selwood says it all, imv.

I see Jack as a bellwether of where our club is at:  as the son of a club great, vice captain, heart and soul Dee decides to go what do people think will happen next year when Salem is an RFA, the following year when Petracca and Brayshaw are RFA's and not long after when Oliver and Weideman are RFA's?  How long before Rivers, Kozzie and TJ opt to go back to WA?  Have no doubt other clubs will be asking questions of all of them.

So lets be careful what we wish for and not be so willing to jettison Jack.

Edited September 11, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

42 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Have you not been watching us? we're 10th, and the way we've been playing we're a big chance to lose the final 2 games.  So that puts us about 12th.  Following on from 17th last year. And that's with no injuries this year! We won't be so lucky next year. If Goodwin stays, how can you think that we're not bottom 4 next year? 

McDonald is cooked, Melksham is cooked, Brayshaw is as slow as he's ever been, Viney may leave, Pickett hasn't showed anything, Jackson is a ruckman playing forward until Gawn is done, Fritsch is now without a position as his goal kicking has let him down, Lever is still shaky in defence. Please don't try and sell hope. 

I am not going to converse with someone who clearly is just a troll. 

Bad move IMHO to take the captaincy from Jack.  That is behind his desire to move on I believe. I don't really care about his skill set in terms of kicking.  What I do care about is his leadership style of putting his body on the line for the club every single game. THAT is the type of leadership that we cannot afford to throw away and is the type of leadership that inspires players to premierships.  If Jack leaves, that will be an unmitigated disaster.

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That a club like Geelong see Jack as a replacement player for Selwood says it all, imv.

I see Jack as a bellwether of where our club is at:  as the son of a club great, vice captain, heart and soul Dee decides to go what do people think will happen next year when Salem is an UFA, the following year when Petracca and Brayshaw are UFA's and not long after when Oliver and Weideman are UFA's?  How long before Rivers, Kozzie and TJ opt to go back to WA?  Have no doubt other clubs will be asking questions of all of them.

So lets be careful what we wish for and not be so willing to jettison Jack.

I was not alone calling what you have predicted a while back. I believe Clubs like the Cats literally have not only the names of players written with the year they will seek to acquire them but the means and stategy to get them. Petracca pencilled in at the Hawks I reckon. And yes to Jacko and Kossie. Poor recruitement strategy.

2 minutes ago, ProperDee said:

Bad move IMHO to take the captaincy from Jack.  That is behind his desire to move on I believe. I don't really care about his skill set in terms of kicking.  What I do care about is his leadership style of putting his body on the line for the club every single game. THAT is the type of leadership that we cannot afford to throw away and is the type of leadership that inspires players to premierships.  If Jack leaves, that will be an unmitigated disaster.

With you all the way with not wanting Jack to go.

If it was handled in the right way Jack losing the co-capt shouldn't still be festering for Jack.  His good mate Ollie Wines lost his co-cap at the same time as is about to re contract. 

Perhaps what is important is why Jack lost the co-cap and if those reasons have been fully worked through with him.  I truly hope so.

54 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I was not alone calling what you have predicted a while back. I believe Clubs like the Cats literally have not only the names of players written with the year they will seek to acquire them but the means and stategy to get them. Petracca pencilled in at the Hawks I reckon. And yes to Jacko and Kossie. Poor recruitement strategy.

Possibly true re the Cats, but poor recruitment strategy on whose part? Surely not ours? Otherwise you would only recruit [censored] players from the inner suburbs for fear of losing them! (I’m aware of the irony in this last statement!)

However, it’s concerning that, after wondering how to fit Brayshaw and Viney into the midfield at the same time, we very well may end up with neither at the club next year ?

20 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

The 26-year-old would command a deal worth over $650,000 per year, which could trigger a first-round compensation pick.

That in itself in a year we don't have any/many high draft picks.  Both parties would seriously need to consider, both MFC and Viney.

Yes  would take this offer in a heartbeat! A seriously limited footballer!

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yes  would take this offer in a heartbeat! A seriously limited footballer!

Watch him get multiple premierships at Geelong and become a great footballer.  Nearly all of them do under the cats system!

Really don't want to lose him.  Has all the attributes to be a great footy player but needs development.  He is not to blame for all our current woes at MFC.  He tries his guts out every week.  Even if he is a little one dimensional at times, i would take a team of Vineys, imagine them all crashing in...Heart and sole players you really don't want to give up too easily.

 

1 hour ago, ProperDee said:

Bad move IMHO to take the captaincy from Jack.  That is behind his desire to move on I believe. I don't really care about his skill set in terms of kicking.  What I do care about is his leadership style of putting his body on the line for the club every single game. THAT is the type of leadership that we cannot afford to throw away and is the type of leadership that inspires players to premierships.  If Jack leaves, that will be an unmitigated disaster.

100% agree. I did comment on another thread that upon reflection, taking the captaincy away from him and awarding it to Gawn was not the right thing. I understand that it was player voted, but this playing group are too immature to know what is good for them. The Footy Dept should have re-enforced JV and maybe helped him out with his demeanor and leadership style with his team mates. 

 

This guy will/would thrive in a more mature footy club. 

It's all well and good to discuss not signing Viney up, but if I was the FD, I'd be saying, Jack, you're going to play defensive roles through midfield, pressure roles through the forwardline and if Oliver or Petracca is not starting at a particular centre bounce, by all means, we'll throw you in there.

If he chooses not to accept this, then Jack is overrating his abilities. He's not as clean as Oliver or Petracca and he doesn't use the ball as well either.

Now, I'm not sure what's been said to Jack, but it could well be something like the above. Or it may well be that the contract terms are lower than his expectations, because he isn't going to be the number one or even number two mid in our team. If he bleeds red and blue, he'll sign on the dotted line and perform the role we expect of him. If his ego is as such that he believes he's the best mid at our club, then off he goes.

I am of the same view as some, that we don't want to 'push' him out. But offer him a contract that is equivalent to the third or fourth best mid and let him make up his mind.

What short memories we all have. The first 2/3 of this season, most were saying Jack has gone to another level, his disposal has improved etc. Now, on the back of 2 wet weather games, where we played a rugby scrum, we want him out?

Be careful what you wish for - he may not have the silkiness of Petracca, but there is only one guy on this team who bleeds red and blue like we supporters do. At a time when we’re questioning ruthlessness and ticker in our team, his name should be first on the team sheet.

Edited September 11, 20204 yr by 3183 Dee

11 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

What short memories we all have. The first 2/3 of this season, most were saying Jack has gone to another level, his disposal has improved etc. Now, on the back of 2 wet weather games, where we played a rugby scrum, we want him out?

Be careful what you wish for - he may not have the silkiness of Petracca, but there is only one guy on this team who bleeds red and blue like we supporters do. At a time when we’re questioning ruthlessness and ticker in our team, his name should be first on the team sheet.

I've been pretty consistent on my views vis a vis Viney for a while.

If he bled red and blue he'd be working towards being next in line for the captaincy, be it after Gawn retires or if a new coach shakes things up, not sooking it up like an unprofessional and wanting to leave.

 Talk about a bunch of apologists  on this forum.

(If any of these captaincy rumours are true)

Edited September 11, 20204 yr by John Demonic

Just now, John Demonic said:

If he bled red and blue he'd be working towards being next in line for the captaincy, be it after Gawn retires or if a new coach shakes things up, not unprofessionally sooking it up and wanting to leave.

Talk about a bunch of apologists on this forum.

(If any of these captaincy rumours are true)

 

First and foremost, there's no evidence or suggestion that this is club-led. This appears to be Viney-led: he's a free agent and he appears to be considering his options.

Having said that, the fact he's even considering leaving means that the relationship between him and the club could be better.

Emotionally, I want him to say, without question. He's Melbourne and the thought of him playing somewhere else is difficult to accept.

Putting that to one side, I think this is a tough debate to have. I think there are arguments on both sides.

In Viney's favour, his effort is unquestionable and the same, regrettably, cannot be said for all our players. He has shown previously that he is capable of lifting the side on his back and taking us with him, and he has real talent both in stoppages and the forward line.

However, one of our biggest flaws is the way in which we move the ball forward, and Viney has consistently struggled to change the way he moves the ball. He is a repeat offender at kicking without looking and making poor choices by foot. He has also struggled to curtail some of his natural instincts to take the tackler on when he should instead be releasing the ball. That's not all his fault of course, as some of it comes down to coaching, but IMO the reality is Viney is not the complete package and has flaws.

Ultimately as an RFA Viney gets more power than we do here. If he has a good deal somewhere else and he wants a change of scenery, and if another club is fronting up a big contract, the risk we have is that in matching that contract we keep someone who isn't 100% committed and we have to spend a lot of salary cap on him. If, instead, letting him go nets us a first round draft pick, there is a reasonable argument that it's the best result for everyone.

1 minute ago, John Demonic said:

 

Duplicate. 

PS: did anyone else notice this comment in the (yuck) Damien Barrett sliding doors column today:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/498678/if-essendon-needs-another-quick-half-time-laugh-then

IF ...

Viney is considering options and Brayshaw, too, gets another offer he needs to deeply consider .. 

THEN ...

the Dees will have even more massive problems added to those which have already ruined another season of football.

19 hours ago, Mickey said:

The only problem is a mid 1st round pick is really an end of 1st in this draft. It's better than what we have but geez, this draft is just so compromised 

Not really. If we finish anywhere outside the 8 then our pick would likely only fall 1-4 selections. Ugle Hagan will definitely push it down 1 spot, Braeden Cambell could get a bid inside the top 10, and then possible free agency compo for Brad Crouch or Joe Daniher. The problem with this draft is the lack of exposure of the Victorian players, but this could actually be beneficial to us, as some highly talented Victorians could slide a little further down the draft.

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

If this is our decision it would be a mistake of the highest order.

I understand he can be a bit polarising and he has some limitations but he a bull that needs to be used better. He is in the mould of Selwood but with less polish. If he can add some calmness to his game and be more measured with his decision making he could be one of the outstanding players in the comp

These players are not a dime a dozen, they are incredibly rare. And while his shortcomings are well known to us here with better coaching and direction he could explode. Maybe they have already tried that, maybe he doesn't listen but I wouldn't be happy with him leaving until we explored every last avenue to help him become a better player. Eveyr player has limitations and we have to work out how to work with what Viney has, not what he doesn't have.

I am of the view the he and Oliver don't work effectively together as they are both 'see ball get ball' players that get in theirs and others way often. I think we have a coaching problem with our midfield and this needs to be fixed asap. We have gone from being #1 in clearances to being an also ran.

That to me is all on the coaching panel and the confus ion of how we are trying to play.

Pretty much nailed it, would be a massive mistake to let him go. Every other club would love him.

'Bleeds red and blue' is about as useful as the phrase 'unprecedented times'

It means nothing, but sounds nice

Jack Viney is the toughest, most committed footballer we’ve had since Junior Macdonald  or even earlier. For once Garry Lyon is 100 percent right. Jack Viney absolutely thrives when the going is tough. We’d be mad not to fight to keep him - and make him feel valued in the process.

if we keep viney, then brayshaw needs to go. I'm sick of our inside miss having no awareness and getting in each other's way. 

As soon as an inside mid doesn't have the ball he becomes an outside mid.  They have to start understanding this principle and respecting spacing, and defensive accountability.