He's as confused as every other player taking the field right now.

His game against WCE was enormous and he's a B&F winner.

He's red and blue through and through (and suddenly I'm a poet).

We flick him and the fabric of the club will be further weakened.

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

If things are going bad for us, I'd put Viney, Harmes and Gus in the middle to try and slow down the speed of the game and when we're on top whack Oliver and Trac in the middle to try and keep the moment going. This doesn't mean they all can't do both roles, but I just see some as being more attacking minded than others.

We need a linebreaking elite mid. Have needed it since as long as I can remember.

Guarantee our forwards would be much better with Whitfield or Kelly hitting them up as first option

30 minutes ago, one_demon said:

Interesting.   To me,  when watching games there appears to be no difference between a rover and ruck rover.  Don't they both sit under the ruckman and do the same thing?

Yeah, really most positions are redundant now. Your either on the ball, forward or back. Except for the ruckman as they have a specific job.

 

14 minutes ago, BW511 said:

We need a linebreaking elite mid. Have needed it since as long as I can remember.

Guarantee our forwards would be much better with Whitfield or Kelly hitting them up as first option

Trac is that guy, but can't do it all game. Oliver has that potential I think, but needs to back himself in more to get clear and then improve his delivery. When brayshaw had that amazing run in 2018, he showed really good signs of being this as well. Viney will never be a line breaker, and that's ok, he's a pack buster then needs to dish it off to a more elite kick.

13 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Trac is that guy, but can't do it all game. Oliver has that potential I think, but needs to back himself in more to get clear and then improve his delivery. When brayshaw had that amazing run in 2018, he showed really good signs of being this as well. Viney will never be a line breaker, and that's ok, he's a pack buster then needs to dish it off to a more elite kick.

Agree, Trac has been doing it well.

Not convinced the others can do it and it would not hurt to have more elite kicks, even if it's just to add a different dynamic around our midfield group

 

Blokes like Jack ARE the MFC. You don’t let those bloke go. I’d pick him every single week regardless of form. 

8 minutes ago, ProperDee said:

Blokes like Jack ARE the MFC. You don’t let those bloke go. I’d pick him every single week regardless of form. 

Agree.  I think losing the captaincy really stung him.   

3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Talking about letting him go has James McDonald written all over it, no way I'd entertain it, unless he desperately wanted out. The first game against West Coast was great, and he's got to get near to that each week, he doesn't need 30 touches. But needs to make at least 5 tackles, 5 clearances and improve his disposal efficiency by around 10%. Of all out midfielders he should be the defensive beast, not a tagger, but one who can lock the ball in or turn it into a scrap when the game is going against us. 

James McDonald could actually hit targets & use the ball effectively. Especially since the 666 was introduced, our mids including JV have been exposed. Love his endeavor for most of the time, however, his disposal has proven to be one of the worst & least effective in the AFL.

 I agree that he should be a tagger where for the team, he can have the most impact.

 

3 hours ago, JMDemon said:

If not Viney , what are our options to get back in the 1st round of the draft ?  I think we need to 

How about Steven May.  Traded for pick 6 for him just 18 months ago,. surely we can still get around pick 10 for him?

Yes that was sarcasm.  Sarcasm laced with rage.

Jack needs to tag...

1 hour ago, one_demon said:

Interesting.   To me,  when watching games there appears to be no difference between a rover and ruck rover.  Don't they both sit under the ruckman and do the same thing?

My point more broadly is if recruiters focused more on a specific type of midfielder we might have had a better balance rather than just adding another srong bodied mid. We are crying, no screaming out for a small/medium sized pacy type. He does not need to be crash and bash. he could even be a little toward the receiver side of things, although not timid type as long as he knows when to run, can run and can execute good delivery. 

4 hours ago, JMDemon said:

With the current plight of the club , no first round draft pick , not enough skills, not enough composure.  

If offers come for Viney as a free agent do we let him go ? 

If we were guaranteed a 1st round compensation pick after our original pick then I think we almost have to, particularly if do finish bottom four.

This could give us options to either trade for or draft a midfielder with better skills/ composure. 

At the moment we don't have much currency trade or draft pick wise and i think as much as i love his hardness maybe Jack is expendable  

 

You would have to have if it was a first round pick. What's his pay grade? It would determine it?

I thought we should've traded Brayshaw or Viney for Brad Hill last year. I'm still of the opinion that 1 has to go.

Rip at the fabric? What fabric? The 'play too many contested bulls because they give 110% effort' fabric? Yeah we might need to rip that up and try something different.

 

Edited July 7, 20204 yr by John Demonic

Viney is good enough to be in our midfield rotation. I doubt he would have much trade value that would make it worth getting rid of him. If we are keen to get back in the first round, we would have a better chance of getting a priority pick. There is a good case. Our trading has been awful and incompetent. We don't have to lie or tank, it is obvious to one and all that we are a hopeless  case. Our success in the first year of Goodwin was after Roos did a rebuild and developed a game plan.

Football moves on quickly the game plan Roos developed was not successful for him, was an improvement but not successful. This was under virtual AFL administration. It would still not be successful the game is much quicker now. Goodwin is not a great coach and does not think on his feet. Our worst problem is the clown that does the trading, this is not Goodwin he is stuck with what he is stuck with. I think we should go cap in hand to the AFL and point out that we are the opposite of competitive and ask to go back into an AFL administration. When left to our own devices we will turn it back to crap.

I think our problem is a bit historical. We are the oldest club and until the 1960 we were a power club of the competition. We became the yardstick that everybody was determined to beat. As our club is aligned with success all the clubs with working class roots wanted to beat us. Despite having wealthy business supporters, we are really bad at managing the club on all levels. If the AFL wants a Melbourne team they need to manage the club.

33 minutes ago, Laughing Goat said:

James McDonald could actually hit targets & use the ball effectively. Especially since the 666 was introduced, our mids including JV have been exposed. Love his endeavor for most of the time, however, his disposal has proven to be one of the worst & least effective in the AFL.

 I agree that he should be a tagger where for the team, he can have the most impact.

 

I was meaning the impact McDonald's leaving had on the whole team for years after, you don't get rid of club champions in that way without causing issues, and Viney going could do the same. 

I disagree that Viney should be a tagger, more a defensive minded mid, who tries to stop teams getting run ons. A tagger needs to go that role full time and Viney's greatest strength is to hunt the ball, he'd be better to go head to head with the other team bull as compared to trying to stop them.

Sorry Red and Blue but Viney is a one trick pony can't kick, mark or run time to him to move on and get the best deal we can.

I'd keep Viney and trade Brayshaw in order to get back in the draft.

I think one of those two may be the most expendable of the side. Viney because he's an RFA while Brayshaw has been too inconsistent since the end of 2018.

I'd also consider trading Harmes but I doubt clubs would pay more than a third rounder for him.

The Oliver/Brayshaw/Viney/Harmes/Petracca midfield isn't working this year. It looks great on paper and was gelling in 2018, but it's not working. One of them needs to be traded or released via free agency in Viney's case.

Would trade Salem, panics, not a good thinker when confronted.

 

 

Fantastic thread. Jack Viney is the heartbeat of my beloved S&MFC. If he goes I would be distraught, a tear in the very fabric of our club. If he doesn't go, then we will probably keep on being mediocre in the meantime.  Somehow I still choose the second option. 

Good bye and thanks for the memories.

10 minutes ago, rappers delight said:

Good bye and thanks for the memories.

Yep Jack Viney is very limited footballer, Iv'e been saying it for years. A poor mans Ollie Wines!

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yep Jack Viney is very limited footballer, Iv'e been saying it for years. A poor mans Ollie Wines!

Yep. And so is Joel Selwood and look how he has turned out. Difference is that Selwood has had quality players around him all his career

Viney is going nowhere.  He’s a great tough player who needs to lift.  A leader.  Simply has to stay and get support to get better. 

Quoting myself, or cutting & pasting myself from the Teams thread which is probably poor form (how do you quote from another thread ?). Anyway.....

 

With regard to Viney, something Ross Lyon said in the past week or so resonates.

"Play what's in front of you"

It's simple advice but it would make Viney more effective. If he emerges from a contest and has his back to goal he should be looking to dish of to a runner heading towards goal. No point trying to swing around - he's hopelessly one sided (like a lot of left footers) so everyone knows where he's gonna go if he keeps possession. Give off the ball. Attack the chaser if there is one. Shepherd. This approach would capitalise on his strengths and mitigate some of his weaknesses.

It's also been noted that he's been slipping over - a lot. Something else I hate. But I'm wondering if whether Viney has a limited choice of footwear due to his history of foot injuries. Either way, Jack - play what's in front of you

I like Viney as a player and he’s played some fantastic games for the club. Round 14 2017 against West Coast when he had 40 touches in a famous win - Viney was Dangerfield and Fyfe like in that game.

However, our current midfield isn’t working and one of Viney, Oliver, Harmes, Petracca or Brayshaw needs to be traded (or released to free agency in Viney’s case) to get back into the draft.

We’re not winning a flag anytime soon and we totally overestimated the quality of our list at the end of 2018.

Viney is out of contract, could net us a top 20 pick via free agency compo, and therefore should be considered for trade or released for free agency.

And given the fact that we took the captaincy off him, and he’s playing like garbage at the moment, he may be already half way out the door - who knows?

Edited July 10, 20204 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

the only way we'll let him go, you'd think, is if another club in desperate need of an inside ball winner offers him a deal that would net us a first round pick

1 hour ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

the only way we'll let him go, you'd think, is if another club in desperate need of an inside ball winner offers him a deal that would net us a first round pick

Good lets do it!