On the Couch - The Red Zone

[praha 11,267]

1 hour ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

healy: "it's not the effort, it's the execution"

"win the ball, don't create damage"

lyon: "i watch this side every single week - they can't kick"

gerard healy reckons we desperately need weed to step up; brown says he needs someone to work with him to develop...justin plapp is meant to have that job hahahahahaha

two main gfx:

and

 

I just threw up in my mouth reading those stats.

wtf has Goodwin done to this team?

[Half forward flank 1,022]

3 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Frost at his best is borderline AFL standard and at his worst is calamitous 

The revisionist history of his playing career is laughable

To give him a three year deal would’ve been foolish

Woken up the the fact you embaressed yourself for your previous comment about him being an embaressment to himself. What a miserable thing to say about a player who played to the best of his ability last year and tried his guts out. No revisionist from me so do not try and square up.

[Sir Why You Little 37,458]

10 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

And people still want to tell me 6 6 6 didnt change anythibg. It was all the coaches fault.

Im not havibg a go at yoi Dazzle just making some observations.

The "red zone" has worked during games but like was discussed we lack t her talent to execute right now.

Either they play players who can execute and drop the onea who can't or change the plan. Something has to give.

It will be interesting because if Goody cant fix it he will be gone.

17 other Coaches seem to have worked it out 6/6/6 (and quickly) U.H.

Goody is struggling badly....

He has got serious work in front of him, right now

The Media are on him...

Edited July 6, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[spirit of norm smith 16,679]

2 minutes ago, praha said:

I just threw up in my mouth reading those stats.

wtf has Goodwin done to this team?

Goodwin needs to have the blowtorch applied

[Sir Why You Little 37,458]

1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

Woken up the the fact you embaressed yourself for your previous comment about him being an embaressment to himself. What a miserable thing to say about a player who played to the best of his ability last year and tried his guts out. No revisionist from me so do not try and square up.

We miss Frosty, he had a serious crack

[jnrmac 20,377]

We're 17th on the ladder

We avg 11pts a qtr (excluding 1 qtr against Carlton) 11POINTS!!!

Last 28 games, 2 wins by more than a goal

We have our very best 22 on the park

Epstein didn't kill himself & Goodwin can't coach

[dazzledavey36 56,345]

24 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Frost at his best is borderline AFL standard and at his worst is calamitous 

The revisionist history of his playing career is laughable

To give him a three year deal would’ve been foolish

This is taking the [censored] now.

Goodwin was stubborn and arrogant is not willingly let Frost stay at the club. He put all his eggs in the Lever and May basket and that's now looking like a blunder and a half. Meanwhile we have 700k defender who doesn't even actually defend and rather skirt packs and point the finger at someone else for his own [censored] up (see On The Couch vision) 

One of the greatest coach in the modern era saw something in Frosty and took him on board. That says something and that's enough for me.

I'll take Clarko's opinion on Frost over yours.

[Hogan2014 390]

The sad part is players are actually running to the the right spots but the decision making is deplorable, it’s no wonder we get scored against on turnovers!

https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/afl/on-the-couch/red-mist-exposes-dees!778764

[manny100 1,625]

The mids have dropped off big time. We probably have to many similar type  inside players. We seem to always be cramped for space when we get the ball with no one in a good position to feed the ball to. The season is passing us by. Play Bennell now as he offers a skill and distribution difference.

Need another tall forward. Bring Jackson in for the dual Forward/ruck/role.

It looks like we have no system but we actually get the ball enough its just not enough quality players in positions to give it to.

Our connection with forwards is because we do not have enough naturally clever forwards. Bennell knows where to run and how to position himself. Pickett is learning and has natural forward ability.. Play them both.

 

[Pennant St Dee 13,455]

It's not just 1 issue it's cumulative.

The red zone game style is not sustainable for a full 4 quarters. It's high risk and when you turn the ball over it burns you the other way.

Composure is certainly something we lack, those breakdowns of our movement are damming and you can't tell me that hasn't been picked up by the FD when reviewing and coding.

It's like a hot potato no tempo and control with ball movement, surely we train and invite heat in game simulation to a point where players are accustomed to it.

Confidence, composure and trust all appear to be missing 

 

[At the break of Gawn 4,515]

24 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is taking the [censored] now.

Goodwin was stubborn and arrogant is not willingly let Frost stay at the club. He put all his eggs in the Lever and May basket and that's now looking like a blunder and a half. Meanwhile we have 700k defender who doesn't even actually defend and rather skirt packs and point the finger at someone else for his own [censored] up (see On The Couch vision) 

One of the greatest coach in the modern era saw something in Frosty and took him on board. That says something and that's enough for me.

I'll take Clarko's opinion on Frost over yours.

Hard not to agree on this.

I don’t think Lever would be in the Hawks best 22 at the moment while Frost seems to have won Clarko over at this stage.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by At the break of Gawn

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,830]

The players do not trust the game plan, their is absolutely zero confidence in it.

If he (Goody) wants to be stubborn and not change anything it will be his head, everyone is onto him now, no more bull crap now.

The Club will go under if this incompetence continues, he knows the problems fix them or fall on your sword.

People will not put up with it any longer, the people have spoken, it's either the 1.2 - 1.5 mill to pay out Goody or millions more in memberships.

 

 

[Jaded No More 68,976]

Goodwin won 2018 on the back of having a player coming off the back of the square. Once 6-6-6 was introduced his one playbook move was done and he has been lost ever since. 
Our gamestyle does not suit our players. Simple. 

[Hogan2014 390]

Is the game plan forcing players to kick to a contest and turn over the ball whilst ignoring free players who have ran to free positions??

If so Goodwin has no idea!

If not the players have no vision & even more concerning its experienced to senior players doing it!

[Go the Biff 3,474]

16 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Goodwin won 2018 on the back of having a player coming off the back of the square. Once 6-6-6 was introduced his one playbook move was done and he has been lost ever since. 
Our gamestyle does not suit our players. Simple. 

Don't agree with a lot of that Jaded. The back of the square thing was pretty much done 2/3's of the way through the season. We'd stopped doing it before finals, probably because opposition sides had adjusted to it. And it's my view that 666 did bugger all. It's impact is greatly overstated. It applies to centre bounces only which make up what ? Less than 5% game time ?

Our gamestyle doesn't suit some of our players but with a few structural tweaks I believe we can improve significantly. First of which is getting rid of this "small forward" setup. It's been successful once - Richmond 2017 who fell into it by accident more than design. And they themselves knew it wasn't sustainable & moved heaven, earth & Collingwood to get Lynch from the Suns.

If only we put the same effort, planning & thought into F50 zones & structures as we (& other teams) put into defensive zones

[Jjrogan 1,486]

1 hour ago, manny100 said:

The mids have dropped off big time. We probably have to many similar type  inside players. We seem to always be cramped for space when we get the ball with no one in a good position to feed the ball to. The season is passing us by. Play Bennell now as he offers a skill and distribution difference.

Need another tall forward. Bring Jackson in for the dual Forward/ruck/role.

It looks like we have no system but we actually get the ball enough its just not enough quality players in positions to give it to.

Our connection with forwards is because we do not have enough naturally clever forwards. Bennell knows where to run and how to position himself. Pickett is learning and has natural forward ability.. Play them both.

 

This is exactly right. When something doesnt work, you change it up. The definition of insanity and all. 

Also, spend the next 24 months kicking as many balls at luke jackson as possible and develop him exclusively into a marking mobile forward.  His edge is his athleticism. Its wasted tapping it to one of our midfielders presently.

[Grr-owl 1,258]

Weid has to become a footballer. Now. He's old enough and big enough. Now or never. The rest of the team needs to kick the ball to the player in the best position. Bizarre that something so obvious needs to be recognized. 

[pitmaster 3,592]

9 hours ago, goodwindees said:

All the Frost haters would have found Nick Riewoldt’s comment interesting about him being surprised they let Frost go because he thinks he’s a good defender.  He also mentioned they could’ve had King with the Draft Pick they gave for May  

 

Yeah I winced too when he said that but we have Jackson who is only two years behind King.

Edited July 6, 2020 by pitmaster

[pitmaster 3,592]

8 hours ago, manny100 said:

The mids have dropped off big time. We probably have to many similar type  inside players. We seem to always be cramped for space when we get the ball with no one in a good position to feed the ball to. The season is passing us by. Play Bennell now as he offers a skill and distribution difference.

Need another tall forward. Bring Jackson in for the dual Forward/ruck/role.

It looks like we have no system but we actually get the ball enough its just not enough quality players in positions to give it to.

Our connection with forwards is because we do not have enough naturally clever forwards. Bennell knows where to run and how to position himself. Pickett is learning and has natural forward ability.. Play them both.

 

We need to Bring Salem into the play as mid-half forward to improve inside-50 delivery. With Bennell and Kozzie - assuming Harley stays fit - we would have serious ground level potency.

Probably need to play one of Weideman or Brown for more marking targets as well.

[Demons1858 1,827]

20 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

We need to Bring Salem into the play as mid-half forward to improve inside-50 delivery. With Bennell and Kozzie - assuming Harley stays fit - we would have serious ground level potency.

Probably need to play one of Weideman or Brown for more marking targets as well.

salem might be. lucky to keep his spot. Nev needs to come back unless there is a reason not to. Brown will be back

Edited July 6, 2020 by Demons1858

[JTR 2,910]

8 hours ago, manny100 said:

The mids have dropped off big time. We probably have to many similar type  inside players. We seem to always be cramped for space when we get the ball with no one in a good position to feed the ball to. The season is passing us by. Play Bennell now as he offers a skill and distribution difference.

Need another tall forward. Bring Jackson in for the dual Forward/ruck/role.

It looks like we have no system but we actually get the ball enough its just not enough quality players in positions to give it to.

Our connection with forwards is because we do not have enough naturally clever forwards. Bennell knows where to run and how to position himself. Pickett is learning and has natural forward ability.. Play them both.

 

I still blame the mids and their decision making. You see plenty of examples each week where the forwards get into a good position, but are not identified.

Edited July 6, 2020 by JTR

[RedLegs23 1,139]

10 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I watched the whole lot. Everything they said was absolutely spot on.

Some daming vision of Viney, Oliver Lever and Langdon.

These are senior players who are suppose to be leading the way. Viney was the worse one out of that lot. 

The ONLY player in our midfield capable of being composed with ball in hand, lowering the eyes & hitting up a leading target is Petracca. Simple.

[Demon Dynasty 17,166]

8 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

It's not just 1 issue it's cumulative.

The red zone game style is not sustainable for a full 4 quarters. It's high risk and when you turn the ball over it burns you the other way.

Composure is certainly something we lack, those breakdowns of our movement are damming and you can't tell me that hasn't been picked up by the FD when reviewing and coding.

It's like a hot potato no tempo and control with ball movement, surely we train and invite heat in game simulation to a point where players are accustomed to it.

Confidence, composure and trust all appear to be missing 

 

And it all started with Viney at that first center bounce.  Either cant see / assess what's around him, even when in the clear or doesn't want to pull the trigger on 45s even though he may be seeing these options.

Instead he panics, reverses his initial instinctive move to go forward into space and pull the trigger, goes backwards and handballs (the responsibility) off to a team mate a few meters behind who then cops immediate heat resulting in a turnover and possibly the Tigers first easy goal.

These blokes arent struggling to win a contest.  i believe we are presently 3rd in the league for contested differentials?

We are bereft of poise (ability to stop / prop and asses and/or slow down a cog and do same) and the disposal skills (confidence) to pull the trigger on angled kicks and deliver to guys in the clear (who in that vision are clearly presenting and providing those opportunities).

So after 3 seasons (and a bit) under SG what do we have?  A great contested brand, which was already there under Roos, but not much else.

And, this is SG's list now.  So he's had the chance to add layers of finesse / skill and poise to all those under him, but has failed to do so...big time.

So either he has chosen very poorly and / or his ability to coach is very limited.

There is no other plausible explanation.  The buck stops with SG. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Half forward flank 1,022]

5 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

Weid has to become a footballer. Now. He's old enough and big enough. Now or never. The rest of the team needs to kick the ball to the player in the best position. Bizarre that something so obvious needs to be recognized. 

Yes.  It is perplexing and someone indeed is odd about the situation. The little Goodwin gives away is that he needs to bring the ball to ground. Does he mean bring the ball to ground if unable to take a mark or just bring the ball to ground ?  I do not think the kid knows what he is meant to do as it appears to go against any established  and traditional way of playing CHF.  And at what stage do you say he has done enough development and play him. Is it when he kicks goals, is it when he brings it to ground two or three times. It appears to be another sign of Goodwins odd quirks.

And HOW do you explain that he does not demand the same set of rules for other.

Viney will not get a game until he kicked to position....you could name a dozen cases where players should not be playing as they are not doing what Goodwin says is playing the Melbourne brand.  Its very odd and Clubs will be circling Weideman this year or next. Looks like another draft bust.

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

16 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

And it all started with Viney at that first center bounce.  Either cant see / assess what's around him, even when in the clear or doesn't want to pull the trigger on 45s even though he may be seeing these options.

Instead he panics, reverses his initial instinctive move to go forward into space and pull the trigger, goes backwards and handballs (the responsibility) off to a team mate a few meters behind who then cops immediate heat resulting in a turnover and possibly the Tigers first easy goal.

These blokes arent struggling to win a contest.  i believe we are presently 3rd in the league for contested differentials?

We are bereft of poise (ability to stop / prop and asses and/or slow down a cog and do same) and the disposal skills (confidence) to pull the trigger on angled kicks and deliver to guys in the clear (who in that vision are clearly presenting and providing those opportunities).

So after 3 seasons (and a bit) under SG what do we have?  A great contested brand, which was already there under Roos, but not much else.

And, this is SG's list now.  So he's had the chance to add layers of finesse / skill and poise to all those under him, but has failed to do so...big time.

So either he has chosen very poorly and / or his ability to coach is very limited.

There is no other plausible explanation.  The buck stops with SG. 

I think Viney knows he often cannot kick the required distance, say 40-45 and does not want to embaress himself trying.