Garry Lyon: "Melbourne Supporters are Gutted"

[BW511 2,669]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

This kick forward requires skill.

To escape the zone teams have to work the ball back and across the ground and stretch the opposition. And eventually hit an attacking kick and then the next one inside 50.

These kicks are often under no pressure, but still require skill, even if if kicking to a free man as long kicks (eg crosses to the dat side) need to be low and flat, some need to be kicked between players onto pockets of space, some need to be sideways and when they finally bite the bullet, for example a kick to the corridor, they need to be fast and accurate. 

We simply do not have players with those skills. And as Tim Watson said there is no easy fix.

Richmond have a similar, though not identical, game plan. The difference is they have players like cotchin, houli, Martin, constagania and rioli who are all elite kicks. And most of their list is at least average standard. And most important of all they have few absolute butchers. 

It is so demoralising to know that we can't get the ball through 4-5 sets of hands to set up a proper opportunity. We can't string more than 2-3 possessions together to create these chances.

 

 

[Deesprate 1,324]

What is most depressing is the club decision making that saw us burn top draft pick to secure Langdon; Tomlinson; Lever and May. It smack of over estimating where we were at after 2018. Whilst that ride was great it came off the back of a mediocre year and cards severely fell our way.The ruthless dissection of our club by West Coast should have showed we were a long way off. If the club had taken a longer term view we could have targeted young talent and continued to build. Instead we have placed all our chips on B and C grade talent and have gone bust. We now see ourselves with a compromised list.

There are two many big heads at Melbourne who got ahead of themselves after one reasonable year. Those who recruited some of the recent duds (don’t even mention Kolodjashnij) need to be held to account. It is just so depressing and Goodwin exemplifies it by refusing to change or realistically ackowledge where we are at. He is either completely clueless or deliberately misleads by stating hard work will fix this it won’t. There are now massive structural issues with this list. Continually saying they are working incredibly hard is a mockery this is an expected so why mention it. Our kicking is terrible so why do we recruit guys who can’t kick. Unreal. 

In his presser he state we turn the ball over. Hello that was obvious yet we recruit two guys who can’t kick. He says he can’t fault the endeavour of the players yet Langdon is laughing at half time without a care in the world. Watch Brayshaw at break he doesn’t even listen to the coach. He speak platitudes everyone is clueless about how Bennell and Wied are not in this team but try to understand why impossible. Some guys are assured of games he need to identify the protected species and drop them. Oliver’s kick and handballs yesterday were deplorable he should be shown the door to the seconds and others until they learn it unacceptable. If it causes losses so be it at least it send a message. There need to be a circuit breaker we just roll up and do the same thing every week and then get the same crap back as to why it occur.

He said our forwards are getting better. Sorry but this is unadulterated BS they are demonstrably worse. He says they havent played much together. Last time I looked MacDonald has been putting out the same crap out for years. He then mention Brown as a saviour. My god an Essendon reject to build around sure he would get a game at Brisbane. He says we haven’t had any continuity why not. Every team is impacted by COVID it just another excuse.

The supporter group are being treated as mugs. There are no short term fixes for where we are at. It break your heart to know we have on traded our first round draft pick for next year so even finishing last will not come with a reward. Melbourne says it values are trust; respect, unity and excellence. It says it aim is to play finals every year and win a premiership by 2023. If Melbourne want trust and respect it need to acknowledge it strategic aim are unachievable. Goodwin should see out the year but should be shown the door. There need to be a commitment to surround our core group of elite talent with other elite talent via the draft. A commitment that we would only trade out a top draft pick if we got  super star in return al la Lachie Neal or Patrick Dangerfield. The Board should sign off that no top draft pick would ever be traded off for B graders so the current Lever; May; Tomlinson and Langdon debacle never happen again. Unless there is genuine change like that where stuffed and doomed to listen to the perennial drivel trotted out in the weekly presser. Thinking need to be long term strategic not week to week where working hard and it will turn around it won’t.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,044]

45 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

I had a good chuckle at a comment on MFC's Instagram post yesterday:

"You've legitimately diminished my quality of life for 31 years. I hope you know that."

Summed it up perfectly!

 

Only 31 years??

luxury...

[Demongirl35 1,053]

This game hurts like it did losing a prelim. In fact a little bit more because when we lost in the prelim I was proud how far we got And had hope. I just don’t know what more us as fans can do. I love melbourne and it’s in my blood but I’m seriously over it. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,044]

2 minutes ago, Deesprate said:

What is most depressing is the club decision making that saw us burn top draft pick to secure Langdon; Tomlinson; Lever and May. It smack of over estimating where we were at after 2018. Whilst that ride was great it came off the back of a mediocre year and cards severely fell our way.The ruthless dissection of our club by West Coast should have showed we were a long way off. If the club had taken a longer term view we could have targeted young talent and continued to build. Instead we have placed all our chips on B and C grade talent and have gone bust. We now see ourselves with a compromised list.

There are two many big heads at Melbourne who got ahead of themselves after one reasonable year. Those who recruited some of the recent duds (don’t even mention Kolodjashnij) need to be held to account. It is just so depressing and Goodwin exemplifies it by refusing to change or realistically ackowledge where we are at. He is either completely clueless or deliberately misleads by stating hard work will fix this it won’t. There are now massive structural issues with this list. Continually saying they are working incredibly hard is a mockery this is an expected so why mention it. Our kicking is terrible so why do we recruit guys who can’t kick. Unreal. 

In his presser he state we turn the ball over. Hello that was obvious yet we recruit two guys who can’t kick. He says he can’t fault the endeavour of the players yet Langdon is laughing at half time without a care in the world. Watch Brayshaw at break he doesn’t even listen to the coach. He speak platitudes everyone is clueless about how Bennell and Wied are not in this team but try to understand why impossible. Some guys are assured of games he need to identify the protected species and drop them. Oliver’s kick and handballs yesterday were deplorable he should be shown the door to the seconds and others until they learn it unacceptable. If it causes losses so be it at least it send a message. There need to be a circuit breaker we just roll up and do the same thing every week and then get the same crap back as to why it occur.

He said our forwards are getting better. Sorry but this is unadulterated BS they are demonstrably worse. He says they havent played much together. Last time I looked MacDonald has been putting out the same crap out for years. He then mention Brown as a saviour. My god an Essendon reject to build around sure he would get a game at Brisbane. He says we haven’t had any continuity why not. Every team is impacted by COVID it just another excuse.

The supporter group are being treated as mugs. There are no short term fixes for where we are at. It break your heart to know we have on traded our first round draft pick for next year so even finishing last will not come with a reward. Melbourne says it values are trust; respect, unity and excellence. It says it aim is to play finals every year and win a premiership by 2023. If Melbourne want trust and respect it need to acknowledge it strategic aim are unachievable. Goodwin should see out the year but should be shown the door. There need to be a commitment to surround our core group of elite talent with other elite talent via the draft. A commitment that we would only trade out a top draft pick if we got  super star in return al la Lachie Neal or Patrick Dangerfield. The Board should sign off that no top draft pick would ever be traded off for B graders so the current Lever; May; Tomlinson and Langdon debacle never happen again. Unless there is genuine change like that where stuffed and doomed to listen to the perennial drivel trotted out in the weekly presser. Thinking need to be long term strategic not week to week where working hard and it will turn around it won’t.

 

Yep. We got smashed at the end of 2018

We were still a long way off

totally agreed

The Rookie Coach thought he knew better

[bush demon 2,041]

Someone to clunk marks, it's as simple as that. If Bob Johnstone, Ross Dillon, Jako or Darren Bennett not available, then try something, try anything. We tried to climb the ladder with incrementalism, Barassi 'five year plan' - Roos, 'the handover', Goodwin, ((who got us to a prelim by the way) and now we are week by week stuck with manufacturing goals under pressure. Disposals will always disappoint in this environment. I'm old school, and I can remember Biffen going forward, Sean Wight in the '88 Elim. saved us. When forwards are clunking that's when opposition's get fearful and our mids come into play, not to mention our Picketts and Bennells. Step forward May, Weidemann. If you can't Mark it bring it down to our runners. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by bush demon
Gr.

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

We can't compare our forward line to St Kilda or GWS, they have genuine talls forwards and high quality small forwards. 

The reason why we over handball is that is were our free players are, we push so many players to the contest with in 3-5m that when we get the ball the kick option is 3-4 opposition player sitting back waiting.  This is our number 1 issue our game plan that was a carry on from Roos is to get players around the contest.  We essentially don't play HFF's they push into the midfield, that leaves 2 defenders just sitting back waiting for the kick into our forward 50m arc.  We need to maintain the ball until our players push from the contest forward, unfortunately we aren't good enough to maintain the ball we turn it over and our opponent has loose players everywhere as our guys are working hard forward to be an option, the opposition just holds a zone and waits for us to turn the ball over.

Simple solution, have your forward 6 maintain position at least make it a contest when we go inside our forward 50m arc.  Make teams beat you in your midfield and not beat you attacking of their Half Back Line.

Every team knows the game we are going to play and are happy to let us do this as they know they can attack with speed of Half back.

The last quarter the first 4 minutes, 3 intercept marks to Richmond in our forward 50m arc.  When we are outnumbered like we are Richmond used the spare players to block and protect.  The one's that frustrated me though was when we would win the centre clearance and our forwards were so far behind their opponent, the opposition should never take a uncontested mark inside you 50m arc after a centre clearance.

Goodwin has a choice, keep playing the same way or make a change, I can't believe he didn't change our game style after 2019.  It worked in 2018 because TMac was grabbing everything or at least bringing it to ground, add in Weidermans 4-5 game cameo we looked like a million dollars as our tall forwards were creating a contest.  This hasn't happened in 18 months and the fact we don't play 2 tall forwards with the game style we play is a massive selection error.

We play mid size forwards for run and defensive pressure, they offer little of both.  At least Pickett has show he is willing to chase hard to put pressure on.

If we don't maintain our 6 forwards nothing will change.

 

all fair points.. but i reckon a fwd line coach would help...

[DeeZee 7,397]

MFC have managed to destroy my love of football, but its my kids I feel sorry for the most. No Joy whatsoever ever

Edited July 6, 2020 by DeeZee

[Rednblueriseing 824]

3 hours ago, Older demon said:

Thanks for posting. Derm has lit the fire as well with a brutal but honest assessment late last night. I cannot fault any of the criticism. I hope this week the media finally puts the heat on MFC because so far we have got off lightly. However the team are in Sydney and distant from the white noise and no-one cares as we become more irrelevant. Same old same old

Derms comments should be put on the wall and sting, if we don't respond this week were well and truly cooked 

[Little Richard 6,262]

13 minutes ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Derms comments should be put on the wall and sting, if we don't respond this week were well and truly cooked 

Any links to his assessment?

[old dee 23,792]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I have a confession. I am not Garry Baker. I am Gary Lyon.

And I'm also redleg.

At least I think I am as I could have written this post and spoke the words Gary is quoted as saying.

Both spot on x 1000.

Red you make a very good point about our game plan. We had a window when that ballistic style could work for us.

But since 2018 the use of zones has accelaterated and now clog up the ground in a way that makes every kick forward a challenge because your targets are always outnumbered (by the by the 666 rule was supposed to address this - and has failed) - which is the key reason scores are so low.

(The zones and ability for teams that run hard to get back have also almost eliminated our coast to coast goals we got so many off in 2018. And the zones also punish turnovers )

This kick forward requires skill.

To escape the zone teams have to work the ball back and across the ground and stretch the opposition. And eventually hit an attacking kick and then the next one inside 50.

These kicks are often under no pressure, but still require skill, even if if kicking to a free man as long kicks (eg crosses to the dat side) need to be low and flat, some need to be kicked between players onto pockets of space, some need to be sideways and when they finally bite the bullet, for example a kick to the corridor, they need to be fast and accurate. 

We simply do not have players with those skills. And as Tim Watson said there is no easy fix.

Richmond have a similar, though not identical, game plan. The difference is they have players like cotchin, houli, Martin, constagania and rioli who are all elite kicks. And most of their list is at least average standard. And most important of all they have few absolute butchers. 

Spot on bin man and this FD can hardly say they are working with someone else’s picks.

Time for a major change of the FD starting at the top.

[tiers 2,840]

It's not just the poor kicks. It's also the poor choices. What as summer training all about? Looking good or playing good?

[Rednblueriseing 824]

6 minutes ago, Luther said:

Any links to his assessment?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f&ved=2ahUKEwiF6eWp07fqAhWLzTgGHaE3DYkQyM8BMB56BAgUEAM&usg=AOvVaw3hTJTWsT0cs_xBggSMQ-_E&ampcf=1

[Little Richard 6,262]

2 minutes ago, Rednblueriseing said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f&ved=2ahUKEwiF6eWp07fqAhWLzTgGHaE3DYkQyM8BMB56BAgUEAM&usg=AOvVaw3hTJTWsT0cs_xBggSMQ-_E&ampcf=1

Thank you!

[praha 11,240]

Lots of noise about us today. Lyon. Brad Green. Shane Crawford.

This nugget is depressing:

https://twitter.com/SamLandsberger/status/1279683312336789504?s=20

Edited July 6, 2020 by praha

[whatwhat say what 22,770]

are we actually gutted tho?

i think we're resigned to this continued poor performance

it's not like it's out of the norm

[old dee 23,792]

1 minute ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

are we actually gutted tho?

i think we're resigned to this continued poor performance

it's not like it's out of the norm

Funny I said exactly the same to my daughter last night. The difference for me this time is I can see the end in sight.

[Rednblueriseing 824]

3 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

are we actually gutted tho?

i think we're resigned to this continued poor performance

it's not like it's out of the norm

I am actually gutted I believed we were FINALLY  on the right track.... I hope every player and clubman is gutted aswell, I love the Dees but boy are they testing my love for football. GET IT RIGHT FOR ONCE *******

[Demonstone 22,558]

I'm not gutted, nor am I angry or depressed or annoyed or even disappointed.

I just don't care any more.

I'll see you all in the next life, brothers.  Over and out.

[picket fence 17,170]

1 hour ago, bush demon said:

Someone to clunk marks, it's as simple as that. If Bob Johnstone, Ross Dillon, Jako or Darren Bennett not available, then try something, try anything. We tried to climb the ladder with incrementalism, Barassi 'five year plan' - Roos, 'the handover', Goodwin, ((who got us to a prelim by the way) and now we are week by week stuck with manufacturing goals under pressure. Disposals will always disappoint in this environment. I'm old school, and I can remember Biffen going forward, Sean Wight in the '88 Elim. saved us. When forwards are clunking that's when opposition's get fearful and our mids come into play, not to mention our Picketts and Bennells. Step forward May, Weidemann. If you can't Mark it bring it down to our runners. 

Greg Parke says HI!! Once held the record for number of marks in a VFL Game

One other thing .. I saw Rob Flower playing CHF in a State game,towell up Ross Glendinning playing CHB I think it was 83? Vs W.A I think he kicked 4 or 5 that day!

Just digressing, the memories did bring a momentary smile to my dial! Just for an instant!

Edited July 6, 2020 by picket fence

[Hatchman 539]

Says it all really, can't fault what Derm is saying. 

Everyone here is mentioning it about the poor kicking and it is patently obvious that is the problem - but it is not the only one. I am of the view that our backline is actually pretty good and the problem is not there. The problem is that we just don't have a forward line that works well enough. 

It's bad enough that we still have players just blasting kicks into the forward line, not putting them out the front of leading forwards and not putting him in a place of advantage so a player can run goal side. The other is that we have an immature forward line that does not work together well, nor set up structures that enable lead-up forwards to get a good run at the ball and likewise have small forwards get into position and space such that they can capitalise on the loose ball or provide the great defensive pressure when they don't. Richmond are so good at this. If you watch closely you can see how the other players clear runways for people like Riewoldt and Lynch to get a good run at the ball and their smaller players always work into space and position. 

My footy experience is limited just to local footy, but I've played and watched enough games to know I would love coming up against a team like Melbourne that simply just does not kick to advantage at all into the forward line and likewise, does not have a league elite-level full forward or group of forwards that know how to work forward structures to advantage. You can third man up every time and run the ball out because the forwards don't work together as one - they just run all over the place

Our one saving grace is that we have Pickett. He is not a great forward line strategist yet, but he is fast and runs to position well. Opposition players are not game to take him on so they take a bit longer to get the ball out when he is around to enable our midfield to get back into position but they will waltz way from pretty much everyone else. 

If Jones does not come into the forward line this week and ideally Smith moves forward for Jetta then it tells me Goodwin has put the cue in the rack for this season. Much like the club did one week before the bye last year when they knew we were not good enough to challenge in finals and we decided to play younger players to give them experience to set them up for this year. In other words he is going to persist with getting as much games as possible into what a future team would look like, not one for now.

Given the unique circumstances of this year there is some depressing logic to this because whoever the premiers are they will be premiers in a compromised season and there is no way the experiences of this season will translate all that well into 2021. I actually think the club may well be taking this approach despite what is getting said in the media, so get used to us playing like this for the rest of the year, at least we don't have to sit out in the cold at the MCG shivering watching it!

 

[daisycutter 29,616]

16 minutes ago, old dee said:

Funny I said exactly the same to my daughter last night. The difference for me this time is I can see the end in sight.

so od, this is not the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end , but the end in sight ?

hard to argue with that

[old dee 23,792]

I listened to Goodloss press conference and when asked was it time to be bring in Weideman or brown he was less than enthusiastic on them and finished with this group of forwards has spent little to together they need to gel. 
Don’t be surprised if nothing much changes to the forward line players for the next game.

If they do not put either or both of Brown / Weideman into the team next weekend I will stop following until we get a decent FD who knows what the hell they are doing. 

[old dee 23,792]

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

so od, this is not the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end , but the end in sight ?

hard to argue with that

Sad dc I started in 1960, first five  where great but been mainly crap since then. I give up they win.

Edited July 6, 2020 by old dee

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

It's melancholy times and following the MFC does not help. Did not expect our season to be effectively over so quickly. Was it wrong to be quietly relieved when our game against Essendon was cancelled.

Like the virus there seems to be no way out until we find the magic vaccine.

Quietly planning a trip to Tunisia and Pakistan for when times are normal. Whenever that might be