17 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

It’s actually not mate cause they don’t get the job done. That’s the problem, all the talk they are great when they are not. 
 

Oliver / Brayshaw can’t kick. 
viney turnover king. 
 

Gawn is a star. 
Trac having a good yr. 

all the criticism comes for Goody but if the players can’t hit a target what hope has he got. 

The Coach has to demand better skills

That’s what makes a good Coach

Goodwin has had 4 years

His Presser today will be the same as last year. 
 

Simon is a nice guy....

We need far more than that

I can handle skill errors as frustrating as they are, every AFL player butchers kicks or hand passes and that is surely not the coaching staff’s fault because I’m confident they don’t say “Fellas, move it through the middle fast, and then shank one to the opposition so we are hopelessly out positioned and give up an easy goal.”.

What I can’t handle are quick kicks from a won centre hit out in the 6-6-6 era going to an unmanned defender 40 out directly in front. The rushed kick ALWAYS goes there.

What I can’t handle is three defenders flying and not killing the ball, and then other times no defenders flying and the opponent’s tallest player marking uncontested, or the opposition hitting up an unmanned teammate 40 out straight in front from a stopped play situation.

Either the structures being coached don’t work, or the players aren’t doing what they are instructed to do. Or both.

If the coaches aren’t stubborn (I have it on authority they do play favourites and are stubborn...) then they will know what is going on, and what they need to change.

I’m not optimistic it will get sorted out.

After 2019: “We will bounce back and never be that bad again”. 

Melbourne 2020: “Hold my beer”. 

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

5 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I think I would make a statement and drop one of Oliver or Brayshaw and bring in one of the young mids, Dunkley, Jordan or Sparrow and we have to bring in Weideman, let’s see what he has got. 

As much as I’d like to drop Oliver, we can’t afford to lose his ability in the contest. Brayshaw however would not be missed one iota.

43 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Execution, execution, execution. That Oliver turnover in the last minutes summed it all up.

Nothing to do with Goodwin or the coaches, nothing to do with the system, everything to do with the players' failure to be able to execute even simple kicks/handballs, yet alone under pressure.

Petracca one of the few exceptions.

bing, this is a cop out we've been seeing on here since the Daniher days. Oliver had a brain fade and yes that isn't a grand reflection of Goodwin's coaching but the performance is ultimately symbolic of it.

The pressure team's put us under, the structure, the transition, the defensive breakdowns are clearly, unequivocally a reflection of the coaching. 

Oliver had a bad game. That's fine and it happens. But let's not give Goodwin a pass here. And Oliver isn't the reason we lost.

Another bad quarter cost us. We have them all 1st quarter v west coast 2nd quarter v Richmond 3rd quarter v geelong 4th quarter v carlton. This happens all the time under Goodwin he must go, he has no idea. Skill level shocking and we haven't got any injuries that's the scary thing about our best team still can't win a game. 17th what a joke.

May - Tried hard got plenty of the ball but was a bit loose on Lynch.

Salem - Tried hard our only classy player but still doesn't do enough.

Harmes - Hasn't found the form of last year.

Petracca - Fantastic start was our second best player.

Viney - Ordinary game skill level terrible.

Lever - Our worst recruit ever does nothing week in week out.

Brayshaw - Only plays well when we play well a front runner.

Gawn - Best ruckman on the ground he can't do everything though.

Oliver - The worst kick in the comp.

Hibberd - Our best really played well since his return.

Langdon - Not doing enough.

Melksham - Shouldn't be in the side.

Hannan - Done his job providing spark kicking 3.

Tomlinson - Not a wingman.

Vandenberg - Tried hard second half a lot better.

Rivers - Not up to it.

T.McDonald - Made Balta look like a star. He is finished as a footballer.

Hunt - Never play again useless.

Fritsch - Best game for the season tried really hard and kicked a couple.

Pickett - Out of his depth.

Lockhart - Was he out there?

Smith - I like him made a few mistakes but kept Riewoldt to 1 goal done his job. 

Just now, P-man said:

As much as I’d like to drop Oliver, we can’t afford to lose his ability in the contest. Brayshaw however would not be missed one iota.

On today’s performance, I’d rather have Harmes in the contest than Oliver. In fact, we played our beat footy in late 18 once Harmes was swung into the guys.

having said that, I’ll back Clarry to come good. Not sure about 17 or 18 others though.

TO HELL and BACK 

says it all really .

they were having a lend of us all !!

we are at HELL. Looking forward to coming back....... sometime 

On a more positive note, I thought a number of our players started to get into a better frame of mind. But some clearly did not. So unprepared players, skill errors, and selection and position debacles, always meant we would not win or be competitive enough for long enough. 
I think the year is well and truely done. 

20 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

North are going to be very happy with our no 1 draft pick

And the way we are going, he will be the greatest player of all time.

It's unbearable watching us make the same mistakes every week.

The two key issues we've had since Goodwin took over are poor remain. We can't hit targets and we turn it over at crucial times.

The negative comments about Lever in this thread only serve to highlight the almighty prejudice Demonland has against the obvious whipping boy of the club. If you're focusing on our defensive structure/setup as our problem, you don't get it.

This is all about turnovers in the middle and, worse, across half forward.

This is about playing all of Melksham, Hannan, vandenBerg and Fritsch and having only two of them (the latter two) show up (and even then, Fritsch's kicking was appalling).

This is about Oliver failing to chase and turning over all of his kicks.

This is about Viney showing us he's most likely incapable of changing how he plays and continuing to bomb the ball without looking.

This is about Tomlinson kicking to Langdon on a tight angle when the game was there to be won.

Hibberd was excellent, right back to his best and with good kicking to boot. Gawn was, again, good, as was Petracca, but we say that almost every week. Gawn plays well, one of the mids plays well, we generate a stack of inside 50s, but we can't score.

We need a second tall forward to give us something to aim at. And then we need 90% of our side to improve their kicking. Until those things happen, we won't win games of football. And that is on both the players and the coaches, together. It's not one or the other. It's both.

2 minutes ago, Lampers said:

I can handle skill errors as frustrating as they are, every AFL player butchers kicks or hand passes and that is surely not the coaching staff’s fault because I’m confident they don’t say “Fellas, move it through the middle fast, and then shank one to the opposition so we are hopelessly out positioned and give up an easy goal.”.

What I can’t handle are quick kicks from a won centre hit out in the 6-6-6 era going to an unmanned defender 40 out directly in front. The rushed kick ALWAYS goes there.

What I can’t handle is three defenders flying and not killing the ball, and then other times no defenders flying and the opponent’s tallest player marking uncontested, or the opposition hitting up an unmanned teammate 40 out straight in front from a stopped play situation.

Either the structures being coached don’t work, or the players aren’t doing what they are instructed to do. Or both.

If the coaches aren’t stubborn (I have it on authority they do play favourites and are stubborn...) then they will know what is going on, and what they need to change.

I’m not optimistic it will get sorted out.

This is when the President and the board need to get dirty. 
Our football department has no right to be stubborn 

They have achieved nothing so far...

38 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Vandenberg - rugged suburban footballer

Hunt - skinny suburban footballer

Viney - pack busting suburban footballer

Smith - promising suburban footballer

Promising??

6 minutes ago, Lampers said:

What I can’t handle are quick kicks from a won centre hit out in the 6-6-6 era going to an unmanned defender 40 out directly in front. The rushed kick ALWAYS goes there.

God so true. Every time. Doesn’t matter how much time and space. Harmes, Oliver, Brayshaw. All of them do it. To basically the same spot.

In all the years watching Sam Mitchell, I could count on one hand the number of times I saw him blindly hack it forward out of the middle. He would settle and weigh up his options. Every time.

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The Coach has to demand better skills

That’s what makes a good Coach

Goodwin has had 4 years

His Presser today will be the same as last year. 
 

Simon is a nice guy....

We need far more than that

Of course he demands better skills

We are also looking for consistency

Drop the players with poor skills

Keep changing the team, where is the consistency

On  field leadership has gone backwards this year, interesting that Jones and Jetta are not there, form permitting of course

It's always easy to blame the coaching staff when it is ultimately the players out there playing

I can't take this anymore seriously. I will not be renewing next year I'm done, you have to draw the line somewhere. 

48 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Execution, execution, execution. That Oliver turnover in the last minutes summed it all up.

Nothing to do with Goodwin or the coaches, nothing to do with the system, everything to do with the players' failure to be able to execute even simple kicks/handballs, yet alone under pressure.

Petracca one of the few exceptions.

That's rubbish, bing.

It's not all on his shoulders, but our lack of improvement in the key areas that need improving is a shared responsibility between coaches and players.

He's coached instinct out of some players, he's yet to find a way to teach them when to play on or when to stop, he's yet to find a way to teach them when to go long or when to look short, he backs in the wrong players and selects the wrong players, and he can't get us to play four quarters.

It's not all his fault, but it is certainly partly his fault.

Geez it’s difficult supporting this club. They make it so hard to enjoy the footy. I wasn’t even upset or angry at the result because the MFC has conditioned me into expecting the worst and they deliver on most occasions. 

We are so frustrating and yet again another season lost, another season missing the finals, another season watching another team win the premiership and watching more teams go past us. 
 

Also to top it off this season we are handing over what looks like pic 2 to north. 

It really is frustrating and annoying to see this happen to a club I love and the worst is the nightmare doesn’t seem to be ending  

When will it ever change. 

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by DemonOX

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It's unbearable watching us make the same mistakes every week.

The two key issues we've had since Goodwin took over are poor remain. We can't hit targets and we turn it over at crucial times.

The negative comments about Lever in this thread only serve to highlight the almighty prejudice Demonland has against the obvious whipping boy of the club. If you're focusing on our defensive structure/setup as our problem, you don't get it.

This is all about turnovers in the middle and, worse, across half forward.

This is about playing all of Melksham, Hannan, vandenBerg and Fritsch and having only two of them (the latter two) show up (and even then, Fritsch's kicking was appalling).

This is about Oliver failing to chase and turning over all of his kicks.

This is about Viney showing us he's most likely incapable of changing how he plays and continuing to bomb the ball without looking.

This is about Tomlinson kicking to Langdon on a tight angle when the game was there to be won.

Hibberd was excellent, right back to his best and with good kicking to boot. Gawn was, again, good, as was Petracca, but we say that almost every week. Gawn plays well, one of the mids plays well, we generate a stack of inside 50s, but we can't score.

We need a second tall forward to give us something to aim at. And then we need 90% of our side to improve their kicking. Until those things happen, we won't win games of football. And that is on both the players and the coaches, together. It's not one or the other. It's both.

The fact we have these gapping holes and went out and spent two first rounders and a fat salary on Lever is entirely the issue.

24 minutes ago, loges said:

Re Kozzie, will be a star as you say but you need not to look dangerous you actually need to be dangerous. It will come but it's not there yet.

Very early days.  Plenty of upside.  A new coach, a few more pre seasons & experience.  Could be a star a la Cyril (similar style not saying he'll reach such heady heights) but not under this regime.

Speaking of small and/or medium small forwards, how is it that we STILL haven't learned to get them front and square (forward hot zones) on a regular basis yet our opponents often do and run the ball out of our 50 with relative ease as a result.

Missing a tall key back in Oscar and a tall key forward as a focal point to help Tmac. The Weid or Brown. It is not hard to work out, Or is it?

Also need to rest J Smith for the rest of the season. IF NOT THE REST  OF HIS AFL CAREER. Just not up to it.

And the dummies who want to try him on the forward line please ! He will be standing there like a milk bottle. Just has not got a clue.

We need some experience back Goody.

 

 

It's the gameplan: instant (kamikaze) handball; not to the best OPTION, not to the first OPTION, but to anything that resembles Blue n Red.  We "get rid of the ball" other teams use the ball!!!

We also don't lead, and more importantly honour a lead or even movement. Would love someone to count how many kicks went to a genuinely moving target.  This demonstrate we don't have the courage to take the right option when it presents, preferring a safer option of someone 20 meters on their own.

Forwards prefer leading back towards goals (an easier option than leading up), but then again we rarely spot up a leading forward so maybe they are justified.

We are however very good a waving and pointing!!!

 

Just now, nosoupforme said:

Missing a tall key back in Oscar and a tall key forward as a focal point to help Tmac. The Weid or Brown. It is not hard to work out, Or is it?

Also need to rest J Smith for the rest of the season. IF NOT THE REST  OF HIS AFL CAREER. Just not up to it.

And the dummies who want to try him on the forward line please ! He will be standing there like a milk bottle. Just has not got a clue.

We need some experience back Goody.

 

 

Oscar is a spud never should have got rid of Frost another Goodwin blunder.

Why is anybody surprised? I'm guessing the one's who are surprised are the ones who thought last year's train wreck was purely caused by pre-season surgeries. And that the 2018 prelim was just a bad day at the office. And that this season is all Simon Goodwin's fault.

- Good competitive groups don't churn out the 2018 prelim 'effort'...and if they did it would burn so hard that it would drive them forward. Not this lot.

- Pre-season surgeries might have made last year a tough one. But it didn't have to make it a complete disgrace.

- Those who want to see the back of Goodwin are going to be real upset 2 years into the next coach's reign (if the players haven't managed to completely bury the club by then) when our players still can't muster up 4 quarters of high intensity, high pressure football.

6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Of course he demands better skills

We are also looking for consistency

Drop the players with poor skills

Keep changing the team, where is the consistency

On  field leadership has gone backwards this year, interesting that Jones and Jetta are not there, form permitting of course

It's always easy to blame the coaching staff when it is ultimately the players out there playing

Not sure about you, but I'm seeing plenty of consistency

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Of course he demands better skills

We are also looking for consistency

Drop the players with poor skills

Keep changing the team, where is the consistency

On  field leadership has gone backwards this year, interesting that Jones and Jetta are not there, form permitting of course

It's always easy to blame the coaching staff when it is ultimately the players out there playing

Goodwin does not demand excellence, his teaching methods are not good enough. I am sure he wants the best, but he is not capable of achieving it

We need an experienced Coach. ( We needed to have Roos for way longer than 3 years) This Club has been down too long