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Hogan2014

Ross Lyon analysis of lack of scoring

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Basically highlighted on footy classified our poor forward entries were players continue to ignore lose players running past them or free in the fwd 50 and kicking to 1v2 or 1vs3. The concern is both our leaders Gawn & Viney were doing this. Either its our game plan or our players have poor vision as we continue to waste opportunities.

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10 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Basically highlighted on footy classified our poor forward entries were players continue to ignore lose players running past them or free in the fwd 50 and kicking to 1v2 or 1vs3. The concern is both our leaders Gawn & Viney were doing this. Either its our game plan or our players have poor vision as we continue to waste opportunities.

nah, just low iq

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3 examples that had nothing to do with forward talent, structure or coaching and all to do with midfielders making awful decisions and skill errors. Unfortunate it’s 2 of our leaders burning easy handballs in Viney and Gawn.

Sidenote: Funny that Ross didn’t know who Lockhart was. He had 21 disposals and 2 goals against Freo last year.

 

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Good to see Ross comment on this as he is the expert

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4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Good to see Ross comment on this as he is the expert

I get what you are saying but I  think that he is a very good coach. His last couple of years have tainted his reputation but I am sure he will get a head coach role again.

BTW not having a go because your comments are fair

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Interesting I watched the game again to look at our ball movement and we do seem to have a problem seeing the best loose man option down back and obviously up forward. I thought one of our problems for years is players who don’t present as an option forward of the ball carrier and I believe it is still not perfect. However watching the replay we often had players running into space but were ignored by the ball carrier who then kicked down the line. I noticed Lockhart repeatedly running into space to be an option only to be ignored by the carriers. Is it that hard to see free options at ground level? It’s too long since I played and back then you just kicked it forward so I can’t remember. 
Reminds me of when we used to see Jack Watts alone on the half forward line yelling out for the ball only to see Maloney or Jones bomb it long to a contest. Things don’t change much. 

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Posted (edited)

Havent seen the segment  but I  am getting flashbacks to when Paul Roos was analyzing our list in the media before the jungle drums started beating about him coming to the Demons.

I know a lot of people may not want Ross Lyon as coach for whatever reasons, but I would take him any day of the week.. We have the talent we just need the coach.

Edited by TheKozzieExperience
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1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

burning easy handballs in Viney and Gawn.

Jack is a serial offender.

Max needs to learn the role of Captain is to bring others into the game, not try and win it on his own.

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3 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

The concern is 2 of our leaders Captain & vice captain are making poor decisions.. 

I love both of them but they are both poor decision makers.

I know Gawny may be trying to lead by example but he has got to stop going to ground to win the contested ball when Clarrie, Viney, Harmes or Brayshaw are right beside him.

Jack is an inside bull and you never die wondering but needs to know his limitations 

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1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

Interesting I watched the game again to look at our ball movement and we do seem to have a problem seeing the best loose man option down back and obviously up forward. I thought one of our problems for years is players who don’t present as an option forward of the ball carrier and I believe it is still not perfect. However watching the replay we often had players running into space but were ignored by the ball carrier who then kicked down the line. I noticed Lockhart repeatedly running into space to be an option only to be ignored by the carriers. Is it that hard to see free options at ground level? It’s too long since I played and back then you just kicked it forward so I can’t remember. 
Reminds me of when we used to see Jack Watts alone on the half forward line yelling out for the ball only to see Maloney or Jones bomb it long to a contest. Things don’t change much. 

Jeez I musta missed that. Then again I'm not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to see it, so I have an excuse.

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Maybe Nat Fyfe can be our Captain when Ross coaches us! And Angus takes home Charlie with a decent run in the midfield... Angus is totally mismanaged at MFC atm. He looks frustrated when ever plays. I feel for him! I think he would have gone to Freo if he had his time over again.

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59 minutes ago, rjay said:

Jack is a serial offender.

Max needs to learn the role of Captain is to bring others into the game, not try and win it on his own.

Obviously it's unusual circumstances with so little team training so it's hard to judge too much right now, but I thought our mids and in particular Viney did a decent job knowing when and how to safely kick forward from a stoppage and when to take on a man and release a handball. (Apart from the times he slipped over which is probably due to wearing the softer boots on his feet which I fully endorse). It doesn't always look pretty but I like that Viney is willing to attack from the contest, I wish Oliver would do it more rather than the hot potato stuff.

The most perplexing thing is our players don't know when they've got time and space away from the packs and free team mates to give easy handballs or short kicks too. I'm hoping it's a lack of talk and cohesion that can be quickly fixed and not all down to ingrained poor decision making.

Unfortunately 9 haven't uploaded the grab from footy classified. It really was an eye opener on how our forwards and runners were finding space. It didn't look like last year when there was no options - until the kicks went exactly where they shouldn't have!

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5 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Havent seen the segment  but I  am getting flashbacks to when Paul Roos was analyzing our list in the media before the jungle drums started beating about him coming to the Demons.

I know a lot of people may not want Ross Lyon as coach for whatever reasons, but I would take him any day of the week.. We have the talent we just need the coach.

Agreed Kozzie 

There would be a  game plan and accountability 

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5 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I love both of them but they are both poor decision makers.

I know Gawny may be trying to lead by example but he has got to stop going to ground to win the contested ball when Clarrie, Viney, Harmes or Brayshaw are right beside him.

Jack is an inside bull and you never die wondering but needs to know his limitations 

I was staggered when many D/L and the Coaches gave Jack Viney votes last weekend.

Two  reasons 
1. He fell over when clear about a half dozen times and didn't get the take away

2. I can't remember ANY of his kicks reaching a teammate.

Oh and 3. The sample played by RossLyon in not handpassing when a teammate was clear.

BTW Rods said he felt we are not far off just need to smarten our teamwork and decision making.

No doubt we do not play as we train and ifGoody is to survive we need to improve our 1%ers and teamwork in the games.

Reminds me of the Cwood of about 2 seasons ago Couldn't  buy a goal  then overcame that problem and have been a top team since.

Ross Lyon for coach for the above reasons if Goody dies not succeed this year as we have ability no doubt.

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10 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Basically highlighted on footy classified our poor forward entries were players continue to ignore lose players running past them or free in the fwd 50 and kicking to 1v2 or 1vs3. The concern is both our leaders Gawn & Viney were doing this. Either its our game plan or our players have poor vision as we continue to waste opportunities.

Saw this review and see this occur weekly.

Players do seem to be statistically fixated - another kick to nowhere is better than allowing a teammate to effect a good passage of team play, and this seems to dominate the play methods of our team. Jones/Viney/Hibberd/Clarry seem to be the biggest offenders but in reality it is across the team, regardless of the number of possessions earned. 

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Lloyd did a similar analysis after round one.

Midfielders making very poor decisions and bombing it to two on ones, where shorter kicks had men free inside 50.

It also doesn’t really help that we have no powerful presence demanding the ball.

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Posted (edited)

Max not handpassing to a fast running Kozzie who was just outside the 50m line, had an open paddock in front of him, dead in front had me screaming at the tv last night.

Overall, I think it is a case of 'old habits die hard' sort of thing.  Viney, Gawn, Jones etc have been bombing it long forever and fall back on old habits. 

Unfortunately, due to the chaos, play-on at all costs, ballistic style of the Goodwin years others (Hunt, Brayshaw, Oliver etc) have learnt same bad habits.  It will take a long time to unlearn them.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Lloyd did a similar analysis after round one.

Midfielders making very poor decisions and bombing it to two on ones, where shorter kicks had men free inside 50.

It also doesn’t really help that we have no powerful presence demanding the ball.

I am very much in the camp that our delivery is poor, but if we had 2-3 proper forward prospects, there would be blokes getting bulldozed left, right and centre and more mark of the year contestants than ever before.

Imagine Lockett, Dunstall or Carey with this much opportunity, even the aerial types like Modra or Ablett snr would be licking their lips. Opposition zoning off works because we dump the ball in long all day, but if you were a big, pack mark kind of player, you get plenty of chances to swallow a few

 

Edited by BW511

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10 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Havent seen the segment  but I  am getting flashbacks to when Paul Roos was analyzing our list in the media before the jungle drums started beating about him coming to the Demons.

I know a lot of people may not want Ross Lyon as coach for whatever reasons, but I would take him any day of the week.. We have the talent we just need the coach.

I can't stand Lyon and have never wanted him as coach in the past.

But now it suddenly seems that he'd be the perfect fit for our list - that coach that can focus on getting the best out of players that are near their prime and instil a disciplined, proven game plan.

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The segment highlighted that we are ranked 6th for i50's but 18th score per i50.

The stats haven't changed last year, even though it's something the club has publicly stated would be addressed. 

The footage is pretty damning, rather than finding the free player inside our forward line, players are opting to go long to a contest. The two examples shown are from our leaders being Gawn and Viney. 

Every team in the league knows this and plans accordingly. 
 

 

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Why do people think the these 'habits' will disappear.  Where's the evidence? These guys have been playing football for 15+ years. Goodwins been coach for 3 years+. But suddenly, theyll become good decision makers by coaching in july 2020?  At what point do you admit its just not in their dna  (which has other great attributes). 

Rightly,  the coaching emphasis is on 'foward connection', but if you're not an instinctive excellent decision maker like pendlebury etc players end up getting confused, nervous, in two minds. Which we're starting to see a lot of. 

Simply must change the coach, the game plan or the personnel if we dont see results by year end.

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2 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Rightly,  the coaching emphasis is on 'foward connection', but if you're not an instinctive excellent decision maker like pendlebury etc players end up getting confused, nervous, in two minds. Which we're starting to see a lot of. 

The only bloke we have who could consistently deliver to the advantage of leading forwards is stuck in the goal square wrestling 

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15 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Basically highlighted on footy classified our poor forward entries were players continue to ignore lose players running past them or free in the fwd 50 and kicking to 1v2 or 1vs3. The concern is both our leaders Gawn & Viney were doing this. Either its our game plan or our players have poor vision as we continue to waste opportunities.

Oliver burned Lockhart badly, last week.  Lockhart worked hard ahead of the ball to find space as the direct option, Oliver looked at him and then ignored him, and kicked sideways to another player near boundary. Lockhart was [censored] off,  and stopped working after, for a minute or so.

It was a glaring burn; and It caused me to wonder if there was some history there.?

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15 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Unfortunate it’s 2 of our leaders burning easy handballs in Viney and Gawn.

I'm starting to wonder if our midfield group has started to believe the hype around them,  of the past few seasons.  And IF they are getting too high an opinion of themselves.?

Maybe they think they are superior to other players of our list.

 

I think our midfield is holding us back, and probably hurting other players development.   Such is their poor work ethics to date.

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