CHANGES: Rd 05 vs Richmond

[WA Demon Boy 966]

I like Brown but will he be at our club in 2-3 years? He's 30 this year 

Get the Weed in and keep him in the side for at least a month - he can pinch ruck hit and provide a target up fwd

 

[Cards13 9,117]

For me it’s as few as possible. Besides a key forward and unless Harley has been incredible this week at training I’d leave it as is.

So Weid or Brown (Tigs will work Jackson over) in and probable in Harley.

We need some consistency in the playing group.

[DubDee 21,607]

Jetta for Lockhart

Jackson for Vanderburg

[Cards13 9,117]

4 minutes ago, MF-C said:

I like Brown but will he be at our club in 2-3 years? He's 30 this year 

Get the Weed in and keep him in the side for at least a month - he can pinch ruck hit and provide a target up fwd

 

Yea see I don’t buy this philosophy now, all I care about is winning this week, next week and then next week. Select the best team, we’ve been down the gifting games on potential road... still no flags and a wasted generation of players and fans.

Is Brown going to get us a win this week more so than Jacko.. I’d say yes, but I’d Weid ahead of Brown.

[Demon Dude 425]

out- AVB, Melksham, Lockhart

in- Bennell, Brown, Spargo

AVB looked underdone. Bennell might be a bit underdone too, but at least his movement through traffic and classy ball use can make a difference forward of centre. plus i'm not sure we need both contested winger types in AVB and Tomlinson in the same side anyway.

Melksham has given us little in the first 3 games this year. i'd give Brown another shot to see if he can do better. nothing to lose there imo.

Harmes can go back to the HBF, so I think one of the young defenders in Rivers or Lockhart can go out again for now. i'd then bring in Spargo. we need more smart ball users in the front half, that's painfully obvious. he and Bennell can both help there. 

 

B- Hibberd May Smith

HB- Harmes Lever Salem

C- Langdon Petracca Tomlinson 

HF- Bennell TMac Hannan 

F- Pickett Brown Fritsch

R- Gawn Oliver Viney

I-  Brayshaw Hunt Rivers Spargo

[Mental Demons 136]

56 minutes ago, 58er said:

I like Locky and Think  he is part of our future backline with Rivers  BUT to not address his failure in being caught twice (not once) then laughing would be irresponsible.

Fine, address it but don't drop him. He brings hunger and intent he will be better for the experience. He is a strong mark and strong 1 on 1 and a really good kick. As for the laughing, I am glad the kid is enjoying his footy he is not the only one having trouble taking this season seriously.  Jetta and May also let through a couple of easy goals every game. Jetta for mismatches and no system of double teaming support and May with his kicking.

We lost because we did not make the most of our opportunities. Our defence is soft we have no specialist key defenders. We have no spine. Tmac is our only proven key position player. Small or tall is as specialist as we get at the moment. The big problem is the most of our defenders play the same position and there is not need or room for them all. Lever, May, Hore, Rivers, Hibberd are all intercept defenders.

Frost was also a intercept defender but was able to change his game to be an accountable lockdown defender. It was his true value, why he was defender of the year when we traded him and it is what we have been missing. O mac is slow and the short games do not suit slow players. Omac provides a contest but we really need more versatile defenders this year and it is why we have tried Jones, Salem and Harmes there to try and make something happen. May had one of his better games but he is still an issue and watching the Suns, I think a big part of their rebuild was finding a sucker to take May.   

[bing181 8,318]

8 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

yet another clear illustration of Goodwin not picking the team based on form

(i) Goodwin is but one member of a committee that picks the team

(ii) if it's an illustration of anything, it is that outsiders (including Demonlanders) do not have access to the full range of criteria used for making selections. Or in short, "form" means something different to someone sitting on a couch watching the footy on telly than it does to a member of the match committee or football department.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

(i) Goodwin is but one member of a committee that picks the team

(ii) if it's an illustration of anything, it is that outsiders (including Demonlanders) do not have access to the full range of criteria used for making selections. Or in short, "form" means something different to someone sitting on a couch watching the footy on telly than it does to a member of the match committee or football department.

(i) Goodwin has the final say as head coach right? Or do you believe he's being overruled in the selection committee? Is it not his game plan, structure and roles we're selecting for? What a let off.

(ii) 'Outsiders' use the criteria of effectiveness of team performance, structural strengths and weaknesses, and fulfillment of roles. So I take it you think those things are being done well currently? Think you'll find there's a far wider group now than just Demonlanders questioning the selection decisions at the MFC. I assume they're all wrong too though because they're not in the 'inner sanctum' where apparently results don't matter and no one else could possibly understand their secret recipe for selection.

[picket fence 15,698]

1 hour ago, Demon Dude said:

out- AVB, Melksham, Lockhart

in- Bennell, Brown, Spargo

AVB looked underdone. Bennell might be a bit underdone too, but at least his movement through traffic and classy ball use can make a difference forward of centre. plus i'm not sure we need both contested winger types in AVB and Tomlinson in the same side anyway.

Melksham has given us little in the first 3 games this year. i'd give Brown another shot to see if he can do better. nothing to lose there imo.

Harmes can go back to the HBF, so I think one of the young defenders in Rivers or Lockhart can go out again for now. i'd then bring in Spargo. we need more smart ball users in the front half, that's painfully obvious. he and Bennell can both help there. 

 

B- Hibberd May Smith

HB- Harmes Lever Salem

C- Langdon Petracca Tomlinson 

HF- Bennell TMac Hannan 

F- Pickett Brown Fritsch

R- Gawn Oliver Viney

I-  Brayshaw Hunt Rivers Spargo

If slow as a snail Spargo plays we have really gone BACKWARDS!

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Second-gamer Tom Green was close to the match-winner for the Giants against the Magpies with his assured presence at the death. The 19-year-old is a bullocking midfielder more synonymous with yesteryear who possesses the rare double of sparkling clean hands and calmness in the heat of a heavy pack. He finished the game with 13 handballs for 18 total possessions, 12 of which were contested and an equal game high seven clearances. Some of his clutch hard-ball wins late in the game, where he stylishly lifted the ball above his head, allowed his side to hold onto their narrow lead. He will be a joy to watch for years to come.

 

Tom Green. The player we should have taken in the draft. Jackson may become a stsr but he is two years behind this bloke and always a chance to go home.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

7 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Second-gamer Tom Green was close to the match-winner for the Giants against the Magpies with his assured presence at the death. The 19-year-old is a bullocking midfielder more synonymous with yesteryear who possesses the rare double of sparkling clean hands and calmness in the heat of a heavy pack. He finished the game with 13 handballs for 18 total possessions, 12 of which were contested and an equal game high seven clearances. Some of his clutch hard-ball wins late in the game, where he stylishly lifted the ball above his head, allowed his side to hold onto their narrow lead. He will be a joy to watch for years to come.

 

Tom Green. The player we should have taken in the draft. Jackson may become a stsr but he is two years behind this bloke and always a chance to go home.

Sounds like a Clayton Oliver clone.  We don't need another.

[whatwhat say what 19,944]

13 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Sounds like a Clayton Oliver clone.  We don't need another.

funnily enough, watching green play against the filth, i thought EXACTLY this - very much in the clarry mould

[buck_nekkid 5,607]

21 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Second-gamer Tom Green was close to the match-winner for the Giants against the Magpies with his assured presence at the death. The 19-year-old is a bullocking midfielder more synonymous with yesteryear who possesses the rare double of sparkling clean hands and calmness in the heat of a heavy pack. He finished the game with 13 handballs for 18 total possessions, 12 of which were contested and an equal game high seven clearances. Some of his clutch hard-ball wins late in the game, where he stylishly lifted the ball above his head, allowed his side to hold onto their narrow lead. He will be a joy to watch for years to come.

 

Tom Green. The player we should have taken in the draft. Jackson may become a stsr but he is two years behind this bloke and always a chance to go home.

We had no chance of getting him, so let it go...

[manny100 1,089]

Have to go with the tall. Jackson was rated up there and we need to build our 'class' tall stocks.

[titan_uranus 22,922]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Tomlinson was caught holding the ball at half forward, he was caught scrambling to chase faster opponents constantly all game, he's there with them but he's not really catching them. There's no point running all day if you're always behind. One very nice kick to Hunt against Carlton and one good I can remember yesterday, but so often he gets caught unwilling or unable to break a line, has to take a tackle and give a backwards handball or go behind the man on the mark. We've spent a tonne of cash on getting a bigger Dom Tyson with a slightly nicer kick.

It's not his top end speed that's the problem, it's his inability to change direction and accelerate to both defend and take the game on with the ball. It's the trade off for being 6'4 on the wing and given he doesn't use his height at all I don't see how he's ever going to be more than depth.

With the change of opponent especially if the Tigers keep Caddy and McIntosh I'd leave Tomlinson in for this week, but I still think Melksham, Vanders and Bennell are medium term wing options who have a lot more upside. 

I largely don't agree with any of this, but appreciate individual perceptions of players can differ.

Even if he is slow with ball in hand, I don't see it as an overall blight on his game, given the attributes he's bringing to the table.

In a side that has, for years, cried out for two-way running up and down the wider wings of the G, we saw yesterday from him precisely what we need, and with effect given he was involved in link-up plays.

Some of the stats which I think show his impact yesterday: 19 disposals (3rd highest for us), 5 marks (2nd highest), 6 inside 50s (2nd highest) but also 3 rebound 50s (suggesting he works both ends of the ground), 4 score involvements (equal highest).

Again, I accept he may have weaknesses, but I think you're (significantly) overstating his weaknesses whilst (significantly) underplaying his strengths.

[TheJam 23]

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

(i) Goodwin has the final say as head coach right? Or do you believe he's being overruled in the selection committee? Is it not his game plan, structure and roles we're selecting for? What a let off.

(ii) 'Outsiders' use the criteria of effectiveness of team performance, structural strengths and weaknesses, and fulfillment of roles. So I take it you think those things are being done well currently? Think you'll find there's a far wider group now than just Demonlanders questioning the selection decisions at the MFC. I assume they're all wrong too though because they're not in the 'inner sanctum' where apparently results don't matter and no one else could possibly understand their secret recipe for selection.

How do you know the structures? Or roles even? You don’t. So this ‘criteria’ you mention is irrelevant.

You think you will find there is a wider group than demonlanders questioning selection? Very speculative.

I read through these threads sometimes and I’m not gonna lie it’s quite hard to understand where over 70% of you are coming from.

 The negativity in here is mind boggling and I think many of you have no right to call yourself ‘supporters’.  We are 1-2. Played terribly and only just got done. 
 

Edited June 29, 2020 by TheJam

[old dee 23,122]

3 hours ago, Cards13 said:

For me it’s as few as possible. Besides a key forward and unless Harley has been incredible this week at training I’d leave it as is.

So Weid or Brown (Tigs will work Jackson over) in and probable in Harley.

We need some consistency in the playing group.

We have consistency now not all that impressed with it.

[old dee 23,122]

12 minutes ago, TheJam said:

How do you know the structures? Or roles even? You don’t. So this ‘criteria’ you mention is irrelevant.

You think you will find there is a wider group than demonlanders questioning selection? Very speculative.

I read through these threads sometimes and I’m not gonna lie it’s quite hard to understand where over 70% of you are coming from.

 The negativity in here is mind boggling and I think many of you have no right to call yourself ‘supporters’.  We are 1-2. Played terribly and only just got done. 
 

33% winning rate  won't get it done T J. 2 and four at the half way mark and we are dead for another season. Please tell me  how this forward line is going to consistently kick winning scores?

Edited June 29, 2020 by old dee

[Lord Nev 13,511]

25 minutes ago, TheJam said:

How do you know the structures? Or roles even? You don’t. So this ‘criteria’ you mention is irrelevant.

Pretty obvious from watching the game I would have thought.

  

25 minutes ago, TheJam said:

You think you will find there is a wider group than demonlanders questioning selection? Very speculative.

Picked up a newspaper or caught any sports media so far this week? Been a fair bit of talk from experts already, hardly 'speculative'.

  

25 minutes ago, TheJam said:

The negativity in here is mind boggling and I think many of you have no right to call yourself ‘supporters’.  We are 1-2. Played terribly and only just got done.

Haven't won a flag for 56 years mate. Think it's pretty poor to question the commitment of anyone who's still a Demons supporter.

[Cards13 9,117]

39 minutes ago, TheJam said:

How do you know the structures? Or roles even? You don’t. So this ‘criteria’ you mention is irrelevant.

You think you will find there is a wider group than demonlanders questioning selection? Very speculative.

I read through these threads sometimes and I’m not gonna lie it’s quite hard to understand where over 70% of you are coming from.

 The negativity in here is mind boggling and I think many of you have no right to call yourself ‘supporters’.  We are 1-2. Played terribly and only just got done. 
 

Speaking of % with our current % it’s  essentially 1-3 and the game we won was by a solitary point. Let‘s be realistic here TJ.

[Cards13 9,117]

35 minutes ago, old dee said:

We have consistency now not all that impressed with it.

OD... is it 11 changes in the last “2 games”. The players that have come in are all under done, give the side some continuity and another key target to lower the eyes to and see what happens, hopefully miracles.

[TheJam 23]

27 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Pretty obvious from watching the game I would have thought.

  

Picked up a newspaper or caught any sports media so far this week? Been a fair bit of talk from experts already, hardly 'speculative'.

  

Haven't won a flag for 56 years mate. Think it's pretty poor to question the commitment of anyone who's still a Demons supporter.

If it’s so obvious from watching the game please explain to me our structures.

Picked up a newspaper? Pass. 
I don’t believe bagging our players and our coach defines ‘commitment’.... But that could just be me.

[old dee 23,122]

17 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

OD... is it 11 changes in the last “2 games”. The players that have come in are all under done, give the side some continuity and another key target to lower the eyes to and see what happens, hopefully miracles.

Every team could make the claim they are under done Cards. We are simply don’t have enough talent to consistently kick a wining score. Then we have a FD that is seriously second rate.

Dead before we run out.

[Pennant St Dee 11,650]

13 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I'd move Melksham into the midfield on a permanent basis.  Yes, he's out of form, but he is one player who can be creative with ball in hand and hit targets forward of centre.  He might take a few risks and turn it over, but at least he is trying something.

I would have Fritsch play anywhere but inside 50 for the time being.  He is terrific on the lead, but he is even better with ball in hand.  I'd have him leading up from 50-70 metres out, then wheeling around to deliver quickly inside 50 as often as possible.

For that reason, I'd also have Salem up the ground.  I know they like his disposal coming out of the back half, but I don't see that as an issue.  Get him up to a rotation on the wing and even on a forward flank.

That leaves what happens inside 50.  I'd have McDonald deep forward with Weideman/Brown up at CHF.  Pickett is given the freedom to do as he pleases inside 50 as long as he is chasing and harassing when the ball hits the deck.  From there, you could have one of Bennell/Bedford as a smaller type forward with better skills, while having someone else like Hannan as another medium forward who can hit a few targets as well.

I'd also look to have Trac be a midfielder for 90% of the time.  Give him a spell forward every now and then, especially to mix things up a bit, but he gives us a different dynamic (as Melksham would) to Oliver, Viney and Gus.

None of these things will probably happen, but interested in what other people think all the same.

I like the line up Wise but wouldn't give Trac 90% through the middle. I'd certainly play him in bursts but have him roaming around forward of centre more often than not because his strength and decision making will create opportunities out of nowhere.

Clarrie, Jack, Harmes and Gus need to do the major work through the middle 

B. Lockhart May Lever

HB. Rivers  Smith Hibberd

C. Langdon Viney Tomlinson

HF. Trac    Tmac   Fritsch

F. Hannan   Weid   Pickett

R. Gawn, Clarrie, Gus

I/C. Harmes, Hunt, Salem, Bennell

In. Weid & Bennell

Out. Melk, AVB

[Older demon 2,263]

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Second-gamer Tom Green was close to the match-winner for the Giants against the Magpies with his assured presence at the death. The 19-year-old is a bullocking midfielder more synonymous with yesteryear who possesses the rare double of sparkling clean hands and calmness in the heat of a heavy pack. He finished the game with 13 handballs for 18 total possessions, 12 of which were contested and an equal game high seven clearances. Some of his clutch hard-ball wins late in the game, where he stylishly lifted the ball above his head, allowed his side to hold onto their narrow lead. He will be a joy to watch for years to come.

 

Tom Green. The player we should have taken in the draft. Jackson may become a stsr but he is two years behind this bloke and always a chance to go home.

WE did ! we made a bid on him at pick 3 and it was matched by GWS as was their right to an academy player. You cannot do more than that.