3 hours ago, Pates said:

Going to start this by saying I think he still has the goods in him to get back to being a good power forward. Perhaps not the 50+ goal a year forward we need but still capable of 30-40+.

Having said that Tom has been poor for a while now. Like others he had injury issues coming into 2019 which made him start slow and aside from the Carlton game which he subsequently got injured, he never really played a game worth noting. Now in 2020, with a full pre-season of fitness under his belt, he has started with two poor games. The question in the title says it all: how long do we wait for him to turn it around?

This could potentially tie in with Weiderman and how he isn't being played, where if Tom's poor form continues and maybe if Sam is banging down the door, perhaps Sam takes on the full mantle of the FF role. 

I have long believed that Tom's form is massively linked to our ability to compete with the best, without a key forward target taking grabs, we look really lost as a team.

You will be waiting a long long time, Toms AFL career has mostly been underwhelming, I have very low expectations for what he will produce moving forward and I fear his trade value will be minimal at best. 

He found some form before a season ending injury in 2019. I think people are jumping off a bit prematurely. Yes Round 1 was not great but we've been bemoaning our forward entries in that game for the last 3 months so to a degree he was a victim of our ineptitude. Thought he started ok last week but Weitering got on top of him as the game progressed. The same Weitering that gave Tiger Tom Lynch a bath back in Round 1. Young man is a gun defender.

Hopefully he gets Hooker this week & runs him ragged. Starting deep & working the 50

How long do we give him? Until the end of the season when we use our apparent cap space to chase a gun key forward free agent.

Clearly has become our most pressing need now.

2 hours ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

MFC were more then happy to move him on to get May.  Goodwin has made a habit of getting rid of players that have off field issues (Watts, Hogan).  I agree with everything you have said above, the thought Tmac was the way of the future (maybe we thought Weid would come on as well) but it clearly hasn’t works over the past 1.5 years.  We need to trade in a decent forward next year to ease that pressure.

Let's not rewrite history to suit the narrative

Our defence badly needed fixing, defence is what wins you premierships, we went on a nice run in 2018  without Hogan but let's be honest we weren't really up there with the top 3 other sides.

and and here are some facts

Hogan wanted to get back to Perth, Melbourne did not move him on, but they saw an opportunity to fix our biggest deficiency.

Watts needed to be moved and you will find a big call and say was made by the leadership group, in this. A big statement re committment by senior players was required 

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by Pennant St Dee

yeah Tom was ordinary last year but there wasn't many who weren't.

I think people are being a bit harsh on him calling for his head this early with a new look forward line.

he kicked 2 goals from limited chances in R1. and he started well enough last week and got some good touches through half forward, before our ball movement slowed down then he got worked over by Weitering in the end.

I certainly wouldn't expect him to dominate this week either with the team they've selected, but I think his main job might be to drag a key defender up the ground to give the other mid sized forwards like Hannan and Fritsch a better chance as the deeper marking forwards and also to leave space for the likes of Hunt and Kozzie to work back into. 

5 hours ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

The MFC rolled the dice on Tom Mac after his 2018 form, they got rid of Hogan and replaced him with an expensive defender. That’s how confident they were in him.

Tmac hasn’t fired a shot since 2018.  He looked as agile as cruise ship on Saturday night.  He has 1-2 matches to turn it around or he’ll be sitting next to his brother on the sidelines.

Play him as a goal square forward with Fritta and Bennell Delivering the ball, that’s his only hope.

Physical strength or high marking are not TMac's strengths.

He is a tall running machine. Can't see him working as a stay at home fwd.

 

6 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

What we wouldn't give for a Neitz, Schwarz Lyon or Jakovich these days .

Agree, the number of premiership flags they have between them is staggering

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Agree, the number of premiership flags they have between them is staggering

Odd comment, Would you say the same of Robbie Flower? 

The foot injury has destroyed him I feel.

He’s a good player.

Something’s not right though (and it’s not his attitude). He was unreal in 2018 yet he’s been super ineffective ever since (but for that one game last year in which he re-discovered his form, and then got injured).

For us to be good this year, McDonald simply needs to become more effective again. I can’t see Weideman holding down FF without some other KPP in the forward line, whereas I reckon Tom can.

As as aside, I really like Melksham and Hunt in and around our forward line. They’re decent mid size forwards.

 

7 hours ago, faultydet said:

Physical strength or high marking are not TMac's strengths.

He is a tall running machine. Can't see him working as a stay at home fwd.

He's not a player that plants his feet and defends a 360 degree radius of physical space like a natural fwd like Hogan did. Heck I saw more shades of Hogan in the way Fritsch wrestled and held out an admittedly weak Carlton opponent. When has TMac jostled and taken a one hander in the space he's made for the fall of the ball? 

I think TMac and Weid are currently very straight line lead up run and jump players. Many clubs similarly dont have a natural gorilla fwd though, but have compensated by recruiting 200+cm lead up players that are aerially dominant due to height. 

Here's hoping Tmacs bulk, clean hands and athleticism can return and give him an edge in a marking contest and he kicks 40+

However we still might need to bring in that 200+cm marking forward though come end of the year and let go of one of Weid or TMac as I fear we just won't have any edge on the opposition when it comes to inside 50 marking contests. Unless Jackson fast tracks his physical gym development in the next 6 months and we back him in to come in and do an Aaran Naughton next year.

 

 

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by John Demonic

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Odd comment, Would you say the same of Robbie Flower? 

it's absurd really, like saying TMAC is currently above them all, because the future is unwritten. A brilliant player of a bygone era because they never won a premiership, couldn't make a bigger difference to a current team than a current player? Our forward line and wings in 94 or 2000 + our mids and defenders in 2020. There's our drought breaking premiership, thank you very much.

 

Why show up on Sunday, the Bombers have recruited Premiership champion Jacob Townsend and he's better than any player we've ever had. He has the medallion to prove it. ?

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by John Demonic

Cant help but wonder if we'd be better off with him returning to the backline and seeing if May Lever or even OMac can present with something. Nothin to lose imo

22 minutes ago, Killer said:

Cant help but wonder if we'd be better off with him returning to the backline and seeing if May Lever or even OMac can present with something. Nothin to lose imo

Roos was the one that tried TMac fwd. I'd be highly surprised if Goodwin sprung a May or Lever up forward if we were behind and needed 3, 4 or 5 goals in the last, in the next month. The great irony is we're relying on a KPF that was discovered through a hail Mary experiment! May as well rtry another experiment, if it's not working.

He might do it when the season is over like he did OMac. He strikes me more as a coach that needs to follow the same process, while the season is on the line. Like our inside 50 philosophy, keep doing it as much as possible until it eventually works. 

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by John Demonic

Put him back in defence. 
 

I really miss the level of anxiety I got when he was in control of the ball and kicking back up the ground. 

8 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Agree, the number of premiership flags they have between them is staggering

What does this even mean?

1 minute ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

What does this even mean?

I think he’s alluding to the fact that Tmac is a better player than all of those guys put together. 

3 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I think he’s alluding to the fact that Tmac is a better player than all of those guys put together. 

Was a very weird comment thats for sure.

Someone should tell him that T Mac has about 1/10th of the talent of those four guys I mentioned.   

1 hour ago, Killer said:

Cant help but wonder if we'd be better off with him returning to the backline and seeing if May Lever or even OMac can present with something. Nothin to lose imo

May was a power full forward back in his under 18's days. 

I remember I was watching the 2009 under 18 championships at Etithad Staduim at the time and I remember watching a 18 year Steven May absolutely dominate from full forward.

He reminded me so much of David Neitz in his ability to crash pack and lead straight and hard.

I'd love Goodwin to try it, but he won't.

2 hours ago, Killer said:

Cant help but wonder if we'd be better off with him returning to the backline and seeing if May Lever or even OMac can present with something. Nothin to lose imo

He’s even worse down back than up forward.

 

14 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

May was a power full forward back in his under 18's days. 

I remember I was watching the 2009 under 18 championships at Etithad Staduim at the time and I remember watching a 18 year Steven May absolutely dominate from full forward.

He reminded me so much of David Neitz in his ability to crash pack and lead straight and hard.

I'd love Goodwin to try it, but he won't.

I think you've raised this before dazzle.

These are the moves i would hope Goody would at least trial (on odd occasions) when all else isn't working.

46 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

May was a power full forward back in his under 18's days. 

I remember I was watching the 2009 under 18 championships at Etithad Staduim at the time and I remember watching a 18 year Steven May absolutely dominate from full forward.

He reminded me so much of David Neitz in his ability to crash pack and lead straight and hard.

I'd love Goodwin to try it, but he won't.

Maybe it's time for the May, Weideman switch 'Daz'.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

May was a power full forward back in his under 18's days. 

I remember I was watching the 2009 under 18 championships at Etithad Staduim at the time and I remember watching a 18 year Steven May absolutely dominate from full forward.

He reminded me so much of David Neitz in his ability to crash pack and lead straight and hard.

I'd love Goodwin to try it, but he won't.

I too wouldn’t mind seeing that, but not so keen on swapping for TMac. I just don’t think he’s got the necessary foot-speed to keep up with young gun forwards all day. 

17 hours ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

MFC were more then happy to move him on to get May.  Goodwin has made a habit of getting rid of players that have off field issues (Watts, Hogan).  I agree with everything you have said above, the thought Tmac was the way of the future (maybe we thought Weid would come on as well) but it clearly hasn’t works over the past 1.5 years.  We need to trade in a decent forward next year to ease that pressure.

What off field issues did they have?

16 minutes ago, BenF said:

What off field issues did they have?

Jump onto google mate, you’ll find them, I’m sure Demonland don’t want them mentioned on here.....