POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[Watts the matter 1,235]

Just had Melksham on the footy show. A bit delusional trying to claim we lifted in the last 10 minutes and it showed our maturity. I would prefer we call a spade, a spade and just say we got lucky.

[Hatchman 539]

Carlton did the same thing in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters that teams did all last year to beat us. Put a ring on the outside of the contested ball and never over-match our players on the contest on the inside. This works in two ways. If we win it (which we mostly do) the players run into a wall of opposition players and in a panic just throw it on the boot (Brayshaw is the worst offender), which is at best a 50:50 cough up. If we lose it then the opposition knows if they get it out they'll have players to get it to and they can run off with it

The solution is what Viney said at half-time. Take half a second when you win it on the inside and compose yourself and look for a target. We only started doing that about halfway through the last quarter.

In the first quarter Carlton didn't do that and just tried to match us at our game with predictable consequences as they are not that good and we blew them away. 

Basically we were out-coached in the 2nd and 3rd. Again. 

All it takes is more composure when we win the contested ball, if the players can do that we'll be set

[sue 9,068]

45 minutes ago, loges said:

Imagine if the last few quarters were longer

ah, but if Q1 was longer we may have built up such an enormous lead that .....   (where will this end)

[Dr. Gonzo 23,900]

2 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Just had Melksham on the footy show. A bit delusional trying to claim we lifted in the last 10 minutes and it showed our maturity. I would prefer we call a spade, a spade and just say we got lucky.

I hope that's not the message internally! The only reason we won was Carlton missed a few sitters Cripps the main culprit. We certainly didn't lift in the last 10 minutes, didn't even kick a goal in the last quarter.

[Deestar9 1,557]

4 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Just had Melksham on the footy show. A bit delusional trying to claim we lifted in the last 10 minutes and it showed our maturity. I would prefer we call a spade, a spade and just say we got lucky.

Actually i agree with that. Watch it this morning without the emotion live & they definitely lifted especially the last two to three minutes !

[Dr. Gonzo 23,900]

2 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Carlton did the same thing in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters that teams did all last year to beat us. Put a ring on the outside of the contested ball and never over-match our players on the contest on the inside. This works in two ways. If we win it (which we mostly do) the players run into a wall of opposition players and in a panic just throw it on the boot (Brayshaw is the worst offender), which is at best a 50:50 cough up. If we lose it then the opposition knows if they get it out they'll have players to get it to and they can run off with it

The solution is what Viney said at half-time. Take half a second when you win it on the inside and compose yourself and look for a target. We only started doing that about halfway through the last quarter.

In the first quarter Carlton didn't do that and just tried to match us at our game with predictable consequences as they are not that good and we blew them away. 

Basically we were out-coached in the 2nd and 3rd. Again. 

All it takes is more composure when we win the contested ball, if the players can do that we'll be set

Coaching or composure and maturity? If we started doing it halfway through the last quarter then surely that is part of the plan and the players didn't decide to defy Goodwin to act off their own bat?

[Dr. Gonzo 23,900]

1 minute ago, Deestar9 said:

Actually i agree with that. Watch it this morning without the emotion live & they definitely lifted especially the last two to three minutes !

I'll have to watch again (dare I?) because last night most of my energy was directed towards trying to stop myself kicking the [censored] out of the couch and scaring the hell out of my kids and inlaws.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dr. Gonzo

[Hatchman 539]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Coaching or composure and maturity? If we started doing it halfway through the last quarter then surely that is part of the plan and the players didn't decide to defy Goodwin to act off their own bat?

Probably both really. I think in the last quarter when the scores levelled the reality set in. 

Maturity is a good call too, there was some idiotic disposals and players trying to palm the ball like NBA players way too much as well. 

 

[The Red Fox 216]

2 hours ago, 640MD said:

Just a question. How many times, while Goodwin has coached us, have we kicked one goal or less in a half of football. 

Again, some perspective is needed. In this round alone we’ve seen the following:

Collingwood 1 goal in three quarters

Hawthorn 1 goal in the second half

Fremantle 3 goals in the second half

Carlton 2 goals in the first half

Adelaide, Richmond, Collingwood 5 goals all game

West Coast 1 goal in the second half

Are all of those clubs senior coaches [censored] like a Goody supposedly is?

[Dee Zephyr 19,243]

41 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Vineys low imput was due to them having Ed Curnow doing a hard tag for majority of the game. I expect him to bounce back next week.

I thought Curnow tagged Petracca or tried to for the majority of the game Dazzle. Did he switch on to Viney when Trac moved forward? I might have it wrong.

Thought Viney lifted a bit in the last few minutes after been quiet for so long. Remember him getting to a few important contests.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,900]

1 minute ago, W I S E said:

Again, some perspective is needed. In this round alone we’ve seen the following:

Collingwood 1 goal in three quarters

Hawthorn 1 goal in the second half

Fremantle 3 goals in the second half

Carlton 2 goals in the first half

Adelaide, Richmond, Collingwood 5 goals all game

West Coast 1 goal in the second half

Are all of those clubs senior coaches [censored] like a Goody supposedly is?

The most disappointing part was seeing how well we played early and then looking like a different team for the rest of the game. Let's see how they backup next week because as you say it's hard to judge due to the interruption to the season however I'm not confident we will have the speed to best Essendon at the G. Will be interesting to see how they go against the Swans today.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

37 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

You're assuming it was a wasted lockdown role and that Harmes could've nullified Cripps though. Maybe Cripps gets off the chain on Harmes in the first quarter, it's closer at QTR time AND then he dominates up forward when it's too late and we move Oliver onto him. We don't win by 6-8 goals, we lose. 

Oliver beating him in the first half is a win.

Assume Harmes gets the job done and nullifies in a similar way for a half allowing Clarry the freedom, space and time to do more damage throughout the entire match. We win by 6 to 8 goals.  No coin flip.

Imo Harmes is a gun lock down role player who can also work off his opponent the other way and get off the leash adding another string to our bow doing damage the other way (even on Cripps).  We might win by 10 plus.

You are underestimating the value of Harmes when played in a more appropriate/effective role.  We'll agree to disagree. 

[pinkshark 949]

Love the dees.  

But goodwin is a problem.

The man looked terrified.  Completely uncool.  He has bluffed his way.

Fagan ripped into the lions when needed on Saturday.  

Our poncy new age, share the leadership, put your arms around the player soft [censored] [censored] me to tears.

[jnrmac 19,938]

15 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

One positive, Bennell played only 50 mins for 14 touches and showed his class and clean hands.

Yes but he roamed freely and didn't pick up a Carlton player ever. Can't have that. There is too many already there that do that. Milkshake being the main offender.

[jnrmac 19,938]

17 minutes ago, W I S E said:

Again, some perspective is needed. In this round alone we’ve seen the following:

Collingwood 1 goal in three quarters

Hawthorn 1 goal in the second half

Fremantle 3 goals in the second half

Carlton 2 goals in the first half

Adelaide, Richmond, Collingwood 5 goals all game

West Coast 1 goal in the second half

Are all of those clubs senior coaches [censored] like a Goody supposedly is?

Next you'll be saying the weather favoured Carlton

FFS call a spade a spade. They are a crap team with zero leadership. Did Jones touch the ball in the second half? TMac, Melksham, Lever and Smith were pathetic.

holy cow we are playing with one arm behind our backs.

[Farmer 831]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Is it possible T Mac cracked the sads that his bother got omitted and hence came in with a poor attitude?

What bloody rubbish. He was trying hard all day. V good opponent. And he did win the ball and get it to Fritsch for the winning score 

[rufus 1,089]

4 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Love the dees.  

But goodwin is a problem.

The man looked terrified.  Completely uncool.  He has bluffed his way.

Fagan ripped into the lions when needed on Saturday.  

Our poncy new age, share the leadership, put your arms around the player soft [censored] [censored] me to tears.

Not sure regarding Goodwin, but hearing Melksham this morning get the impression they are quite happy with themsleves about yesterday. It's a major worry. Getting the 4 points yesterday would be hugely important if we also learn from the 2nd half capitulation...but it means nothing if the FD don't adress how badly we played in the latter part. Doubt clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Essendon, etc. Would have been happy with playing like that.

[Wells 11 5,315]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Just a thought (and maybe an idiotic one) - would it be worth switching TMac and May? Or having May has the primary forward with TMac playing second fiddle and Fritsch as 3rd up? Not sure where that leaves our backline because I'm not a fan of Smith but obviously it would mean OMac would have to come in. Petty is another option, I liked him up forward last year so maybe May and Petty up forward with TMac back to defense?

I know this would unsettle us immensely but just trying to think of how to fix our forward structure.

I like the thought. Little doubt that a fit Tmac is a fwd weapon. But lets face facts  he isnt "fit".... and he may never be again re his foot. So, at some point I think we have to put away our memories of 2018 and think about where his best position is, with the body he has now. May would have at least brought a lot of those high balls to ground and stopped that fast transition that was killing us in the second half. I think we need to start playing with this. We just cant go in with Tmac and Jackson again. 

[jnrmac 19,938]

16 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

That was pathetic, we need at least an eight goal lead to be comfortable.

The lack of composure in the front half still kills us, we stop when we should play-in and play-in when we should stop.

Tom McDonald is cooked.

Jake Melksham is cooked.

Goodwin has no idea what he’s doing.

Smith should never be in the back half again.

ANB was very good.

Hunt was very good.

Rivers is an absolute beauty.

Lever and May aren’t what we paid for.

Once Carlton worked out Gawn we were done.

Petraccca is a star.

 

Pretty much nailed it with this post

[chook fowler 19,302]

Classic Melbourne, making a win feel like a loss. Main concern is Goodwin was our coaches by a rookie. Teague adjusted his structure to fix our midfield dominance and Goodwin didn’t know how to respond.

[Redleg 40,394]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Next you'll be saying the weather favoured Carlton

FFS call a spade a spade. They are a crap team with zero leadership. Did Jones touch the ball in the second half? TMac, Melksham, Lever and Smith were pathetic.

holy cow we are playing with one arm behind our backs.

Agree.

Oh and we are super fit too, 1 point to 3-5 in the last and they were a man down for 3/4.

Sick of the excuses too.

[Farmer 831]

1 hour ago, Choko said:

I am a Goodwin fan. 

But... Although Carlton had 3 talls in their forward line, there was no reason to play Joel Smith back. He's just not a backman. He flies when he should stay down, tries to mark when he should punch. It wasn't good. And then we played Jetta on McKay. Inexplicable.

Clarry did a great job, but with a midfield with very little impact, surely we could ask Harmes or Viney to 'tag' Cripps and then use our midfielders in a more attacking way. 

Rivers was amazing. Jackson showed great signs. But geez we had a lot of players not contribute, and most failed to contribute over 4 quarters. We won't get away with that too often. 

Well once OMac was dropped Smith had to play back didnt he? I actually thought Smith looked v nervous.

i hate dropping a bloke after one match but in my view Omac is critical to the success of the May/ Lever combination.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

We didn't play well and deserved to lose.

With that out of the way, I saw some things that gave me hope.

Our intent kicking the ball inside 50 was fantastic - low, penetrating kicks that even when they missed, put the opposition defence under pressure.

The other side of this that makes me hopeful we can turn this around is that when things went bad, it was our work rate around the ball that went south - that's something we're usually good at. I believe this might be why Goodwin didn't throw things around - he was backing our midfield to regain ascendancy. It didn't happen.

My final random observation - Carlton are a crap football team but are very fit. Their ability to get numbers around the ball late in both games this year has been impressive.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

13 hours ago, andrewb said:

Hi everyone, first time poster here. Very happy to get a win, but a bit disappointed with the capitulation. I reckon it will take a few rounds for the crazy scenarios of the past 3 months to settle things down. I am a bit gobsmacked that this is a fan forum and the level of virtriol from 'fans' at our team. From reading a couple of threads it would seem that many posters forget our team is up against another team trying to win, and that our guys deliberately go out of the way to cause them angst. There is more to life than pissanting on dees players after a win, surely. 

Welcome to DL Ab. Yep, well said indeed. One hitout game after a long break, in the most interrupted season in history and we have to sack everyone from the coach to the board and trade most of the players. And that was after a win! Wait until we have a loss !!

 

[John Crow Batty 8,831]

Was happy with the four points in these hard times but never the less confidence sapping. The same ugly scenarios that ruined last season were evident. Blowing away strong starts and then fading badly accounted for a large percentage of our losses. The few wins we had were also eked out in a similar fashion with a lot of luck involved. This will not be a typical season and anything can happen but my expectations have fallen considerably after two rounds.  I only see some promising new faces but no tangible team improvement so far. Jones with nil possessions in the last quarter was also like last season where he faded badly in most last quarters. Should not be playing. 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by america de cali