2 hours ago, hemingway said:

Nathan deserves a lot of respect.

However, the last few seasons has shown that Nathan's time to finish has come.

It comes to everyone. Given the financial rewards these days, we see too many players trying to hang on to their careers. Nathan has given a lot to the club but the club and the game has given a lot to Nathan, his material lifestyle, and, his future. There are not many people that are able to set themselves up for life in their early 30's.  

Also there is a lot of ego involved. And there are plenty of people (friends, supporters and club personnel) encouraging a player to keep going. Gary Ablett is one example of this influence. .

As they say in the classics, its always better to go out on on top rather than on the slide. Ablett should have retired. Sure he is still a great player, but he has become a shadow of his former self. 

The easy decision for Nathan was to step aside as Captain. The harder decision was retirement.

He has chosen to go on. I think its a mistake both for Nathan and the club. It was time for him to take the burden off his shoulders.

He is the past and not the future. This is where a wise coach could have intervened and encouraged the player to retire with dignity. I suspect that if Clarkson had been the coach, the outcome would have been different.

If we have a successful year and he is part of it, then his decision to go on may seem the right one. However, if he retains his place in the team, it still stops the development of a young player or someone that could contribute to team success for several years.

If we have another poor year, then Nathan could become an embarrassment. And on a personal level, he will find it very difficult to motivate himself, given his comments on 2019.   

 

 

I think this is total horseshit, disrespectful and ill intended.

The guy has carried the leadership and expectations of this club for the past 6 years as we built to a prelim before last years stumble, which was in no way his fault.

It’s annoying me how quickly and ignorantly supporters turn on the few brave players that have stepped up to bearing the burden of leading our club. 

How about we acknowledge the service Nathan has given the club, note his injury free preparation and years of quality football and wish him well..? 

As a man of history Hemingway, maybe you should read Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech of 1910... 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Edited March 5, 20205 yr by PaulRB

25 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech of 1910...

One of the all-time greats.

1 hour ago, PaulRB said:

I think this is total horseshit, disrespectful and ill intended.

The guy has carried the leadership and expectations of this club for the past 6 years as we built to a prelim before last years stumble, which was in no way his fault.

It’s annoying me how quickly and ignorantly supporters turn on the few brave players that have stepped up to bearing the burden of leading our club. 

How about we acknowledge the service Nathan has given the club, note his injury free preparation and years of quality football and wish him well..? 

As a man of history Hemingway, maybe you should read Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech of 1910... 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Love your quote. Inspirational stuff. 

I mentioned in my first sentence that Nathan deserves a lot of respect. 

I am a fan of Nathan and his service to the club has been incredible. Talking to a player about retirement is not disrespectful. 

I like to see players go out on top. At the same time, we also need to look to the future. 

I hope Nathan has a terrific season. I also hope he can make it to 300. 

4 hours ago, PaulRB said:

. 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Excellent quote Paul

i am not the man getting dirty. 
but i still don’t think Jones earnt his place in the side last year. 
if he plays well this year, fantastic 

i hope he does

I'd be interested in seeing the club's detailed data on any changes to Jones' body shape, training focus and the like. On the one hand I'm quite sure I'm just feeding my confirmation bias but it has seemed to me like Jones has lost a bit of weight and is looking a bit leaner. Obviously that suits a more outside and diverse role, and may even be influenced by decisions on managing the neck tightness he had been experiencing.

I think 2020 is Jones' one last shot at adapting himself to new roles, and sure it might not work out, BUT he has the shot left to take. 

As for 'needs to make way for a developing kid', you have to balance that against the value of having him around helping kids develop. There's no value in going full Schwab, as we all know.

It is risk/reward and there are cases both ways, but whatever comes of it I think we can at least say it wasn't an idiotic decision or something motivated purely by sentiment.

Plus, sentiment matters. Dumping Jones after THAT season would have left a bad taste in the mouth for everyone connected. He deserves at least to be the wise old man getting some satisfaction seeing the club smashing all rivals to pieces in 2020 and knowing he can be proud of his part for the rest of his life. ?

As a club, Melbourne has been less than demanding of some senior players, in their twilight. 
Notably though we crucified I thought, junior McDonald who I thought was a great captain 

That said, I hope Jones does well and gets his 300. He is super cool in a pressure situation going into our50. 
 

but time waits for no one !

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I'd be interested in seeing the club's detailed data on any changes to Jones' body shape, training focus and the like. On the one hand I'm quite sure I'm just feeding my confirmation bias but it has seemed to me like Jones has lost a bit of weight and is looking a bit leaner. Obviously that suits a more outside and diverse role, and may even be influenced by decisions on managing the neck tightness he had been experiencing.

I think 2020 is Jones' one last shot at adapting himself to new roles, and sure it might not work out, BUT he has the shot left to take. 

As for 'needs to make way for a developing kid', you have to balance that against the value of having him around helping kids develop. There's no value in going full Schwab, as we all know.

It is risk/reward and there are cases both ways, but whatever comes of it I think we can at least say it wasn't an idiotic decision or something motivated purely by sentiment.

Plus, sentiment matters. Dumping Jones after THAT season would have left a bad taste in the mouth for everyone connected. He deserves at least to be the wise old man getting some satisfaction seeing the club smashing all rivals to pieces in 2020 and knowing he can be proud of his part for the rest of his life. ?

If we make finals, I know which one I would prefer.

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I'd be interested in seeing the club's detailed data on any changes to Jones' body shape, training focus and the like. On the one hand I'm quite sure I'm just feeding my confirmation bias but it has seemed to me like Jones has lost a bit of weight and is looking a bit leaner. Obviously that suits a more outside and diverse role, and may even be influenced by decisions on managing the neck tightness he had been experiencing.

I think 2020 is Jones' one last shot at adapting himself to new roles, and sure it might not work out, BUT he has the shot left to take. 

As for 'needs to make way for a developing kid', you have to balance that against the value of having him around helping kids develop. There's no value in going full Schwab, as we all know.

It is risk/reward and there are cases both ways, but whatever comes of it I think we can at least say it wasn't an idiotic decision or something motivated purely by sentiment.

Plus, sentiment matters. Dumping Jones after THAT season would have left a bad taste in the mouth for everyone connected. He deserves at least to be the wise old man getting some satisfaction seeing the club smashing all rivals to pieces in 2020 and knowing he can be proud of his part for the rest of his life. ?

very well put LG. 

good reasoning and balance. 

4 hours ago, 640MD said:

He is super cool in a pressure situation going into our50. 
 

but time waits for no one !

He aint that cool.
As demonstrated Rd23 last year against North in the dying minutes with a poor decision/disposal/turnover costing the game.

If Nathan Jones is the worst player in our 22 this season we are going to have a very good side in operation.

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

He aint that cool.
As demonstrated Rd23 last year against North in the dying minutes with a poor decision/disposal/turnover costing the game.

The last couple of minutes should not on their own, be the reason for losing, but if you have watched this years practice matches,  its a different story  I think,  and if he does play to 300.   The Demons are going to have a very healthy year,  (I hope) ,

Anticipate most years,   but full of hope again,    Opinions....everyone has a right to them....it would be ugly if we all thought the same.

Enjoy the year !  I think at least we will be competitive for most games, the first quarter will tell the story, hate playing catch up !

Go Dees 2020

12 hours ago, 640MD said:

The last couple of minutes should not on their own, be the reason for losing, but if you have watched this years practice matches,  its a different story  I think,  and if he does play to 300. 

When the game is on the line you need/expect the captain of all people to be making the correct decisions.

23 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

When the game is on the line you need/expect the captain of all people to be making the correct decisions.

If the captain is the only one doing it nothing is going to change the state of play

14 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

If Nathan Jones is the worst player in our 22 this season we are going to have a very good side in operation.

Very true. 
He absolutely doesn’t look out of place on the field. He has never been quick and so pace is not an issue. His decision making and kicking is still good. 
No issues with him being in our best 22.

41 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

When the game is on the line you need/expect the captain of all people to be making the correct decisions.

True  that would be an inspired result, but the DEMONS have not had a captain like that since....Barassi ??

15 minutes ago, 640MD said:

True  that would be an inspired result, but the DEMONS have not had a captain like that since....Barassi ??

lyon for one

Sad to see. He's not breaking,  he's broken. He looked distant and disinterested at times last night. 

He is a shell of the player he was and it's an indictment on a team with almost zero injuries that he is still getting a game. 

He will go down as a demon great and rightly so,  but his time was up more than 12 months ago. 

Did anyone else see the half time interview last night. He said something along the lines that he can add more to the team than any other player. He may well be right but it's no longer on the footy field. 

Thanks for your service Jonesy but it's time. 

I love Jonesy and have a lot of respect for him and what he has done for our club, but I think it's clear the game has passed him by.

Since it's unlikely he will get to 300 games, I would just plan a nice farewell game for him in the last round of the season (given finals will be out of the question most likely), and give him the send off he deserves.

Sadly, he isn't in our best 22 anymore. 

sad to see

really, should've retired end of last year - did he go on in the hope of getting to 300?

Sad to see him like this.

Yeah hard to disagree and can't be carrying guys for sentimental purposes with the way lists are. Unfortunately won't get to 300 but hopefully we can give him a good send off.

8 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Sad to see. He's not breaking,  he's broken. He looked distant and disinterested at times last night. 

He is a shell of the player he was and it's an indictment on a team with almost zero injuries that he is still getting a game. 

He will go down as a demon great and rightly so,  but his time was up more than 12 months ago. 

Did anyone else see the half time interview last night. He said something along the lines that he can add more to the team than any other player. He may well be right but it's no longer on the footy field. 

Thanks for your service Jonesy but it's time. 

Was hard to watch, was thinking to myself what he could possibly be adding and he couldn't use words to express it.

What does he need for 300?

I hope he gets there

7 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I love Jonesy and have a lot of respect for him and what he has done for our club, but I think it's clear the game has passed him by.

Since it's unlikely he will get to 300 games, I would just plan a nice farewell game for him in the last round of the season (given finals will be out of the question most likely), and give him the send off he deserves.

Sadly, he isn't in our best 22 anymore. 

Jaded you star. I thought this last night. He’s a great bloke. Brilliant loyal Demon. But he’s now not in our best 22 on a flank and not required for his key inside midfielder role. He’s heart carried him last night but only just. He did 4-5 shocking turnovers which were costly.  I think he may be dropped. 
 

Now how do we handle the end for a Demon champion. A farewell match is appropriate and is not a gift.  It’s respect.  We have bulldozed out James McDonald and Brad Green.  Don’t let our great man Jonesy down. 

Should have gone 2 seasons ago..