11 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

are you saying the cia didn't replace all birds with robots?

In my opinion it is unlikely.

On 1/1/2020 at 2:51 PM, Damo said:

I remember this time last year. I could not believe how many great players we had to choose a best 22 from. My hopes were slowly and excruciatingly dashed when it started to become apparent in late January and early February that those players who we were assured were merely a week away from full training, were in actual fact out for months. And months. Not a peep from the club, and that hurt too.

Sorry to be a downer, I am still getting over it. Id prefer to wrap all our freshly minted '20 team all up in cotton wool till February...

but then Id miss the training reports.

I think we all recall the last season in the same, sickening way. The injury toll and questionable season readiness of the majority of the team was indeed depressing, unexpected and horribly retarding. Be it luck, poor management or a less than serious attempt at a pre-season, it was most certainly cruelling for supporters.

12 hours ago, binman said:

And millions of americans have a very strong opinion that God  created the earth in 7 days. They truly believe that to be the case.

In these example the opinions are wrong

Plenty here in Aus too Bin (myself included). There’s many scientists who are also Christians and think science supports the creation narrative. Anyway, not the place for this discussion - apologies for going off topic 

11 minutes ago, Gawn's Beard said:

Plenty here in Aus too Bin (myself included). There’s many scientists who are also Christians and think science supports the creation narrative. Anyway, not the place for this discussion - apologies for going off topic 

Yes, we could easily go well of track here GB.

I respect your right to your opinion and your faith. I'll leave it there.

1 hour ago, binman said:

In my opinion it is unlikely.

 

4 hours ago, binman said:

In my opinion it is unlikely.

You're under orders to say that. We understand.

On 1/2/2020 at 8:57 PM, Satyriconhome said:

I hardly missed a pre season session, most of the ops were upper body, so the running, aerobic fitness didn't lack

Towards the end of pre season most were back in the main group and looking good

My opinion, the lack of a 'proper' preseason became an excuse that got repeated so often, it became fact, and an out for a non.performing player

Other 'reporters' would have reported exactly the same thing,  apart from the occasional skill error to give Demonland something to hang their hat on

My opinion the issue was mental and too many voices and messages trying to right the ship

I'm responding to you, but it's wasted on you, so it's really for others.

What couldn't be replicated by simply running was contested work.  In a quality preseason contested work, i.e. bumping into bodies, tackling, competing for pack marks, getting up quickly after you've just been brought to ground, sprinting to tackle when you're fatigued, etc. is all part of the necessary preparation to get you ready for the most brutal team sport in the world.  None of our midfielders completed even half a proper preseason and most didn't start any contested stuff until February.

It also doesn't provide players with any confidence that they're ready.  They know what's required and they also know what's less than ideal.  Confidence is huge in footy and most players heading into round one would have had serious trepidation as to whether they'd done the work required.

Preseason running to get a fitness base simply doesn't cut it in the modern game, chap.

37 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I'm responding to you, but it's wasted on you, so it's really for others.

What couldn't be replicated by simply running was contested work.  In a quality preseason contested work, i.e. bumping into bodies, tackling, competing for pack marks, getting up quickly after you've just been brought to ground, sprinting to tackle when you're fatigued, etc. is all part of the necessary preparation to get you ready for the most brutal team sport in the world.  None of our midfielders completed even half a proper preseason and most didn't start any contested stuff until February.

It also doesn't provide players with any confidence that they're ready.  They know what's required and they also know what's less than ideal.  Confidence is huge in footy and most players heading into round one would have had serious trepidation as to whether they'd done the work required.

Preseason running to get a fitness base simply doesn't cut it in the modern game, chap.

Throws seed on barren ground. 
 

Those that don’t understand now either don’t want to or just never will. 

i had a dream last night that i spoke to a scout from an oppo side

when i asked what he'd made of the dees thus far this preseason his response was "they've got a helluva lot more players out on the park...skills are still dee-plorable but"

14 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

One aspect of the team’s performances that was often commented upon until well into the season was its general inaccuracy in front of goal compared with that of the opposition. This was particularly noticeable in the final quarter for game after game. The Adelaide game was a perfect example but there were a number of examples until the wheels fell off completely in the last seven rounds.

I was discussing this with someone from outside of the club who is well qualified and highly thought of in the fitness field. His observation was that he attributed it mainly to lower levels of stamina at the end of games brought on by an insufficient fitness base of the group due to a lack of a proper pre season. Once the tiredness sets in, it also affects the mental side of things as well.

This is something that we’ve known for some time but what we underestimated was the severity of the problem. Because so many of our players had limited preseasons it hurt us badly.

Spot on. I raised this point that the opposition’s accuracy was killing us as much as our own poor footy. Not sure if it was coincidence or to do with our lack of fitness.

Check out this for a crazy 6 week period between rounds 7-12 which ultimately killed off our season.

Melbourne -                53.80 (average 9.13.67)

Opposition total.       76.45 (average 13.7.85)

That’s basically an 18 point loss but 2 more scoring shots a a game.

Hawthorn, GC and Collingwood combined a total of 12.0 in the last quarters of those three games. That’s surely just bad luck. (Ironically we won two of those games but that’s beside the point.

The above mentioned opposition accuracy conversion of 63% over 6 weeks is a complete anomaly and would be unlikely to be repeated again this year.

Edited January 5, 20205 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Spot on. I raised this point that the opposition’s accuracy was killing us as much as our own poor footy. Not sure if it was coincidence or to do with our lack of fitness.

Check out this for a crazy 6 week period between rounds 7-12 which ultimately killed off our season.

Melbourne -                53.80 (average 9.13.67)

Opposition total.       76.45 (average 13.7.85)

That’s basically an 18 point loss but 2 more scoring shots a a game.

Hawthorn, GC and Collingwood combined a total of 12.0 in the last quarters of those three games. That’s surely just bad luck. (Ironically we won two of those games but that’s beside the point.

The above mentioned opposition accuracy conversion of 63% over 6 weeks is a complete anomaly and would be unlikely to be repeated again this year.

It wasn't surprising that the opposition during that period were accurate......we had little in the way of defenders!  With little pressure, easy shots ensue.

During that period we were missing Lever and Jetta for the whole time.  May -  all the period except for 1 game.  But we also lost Hibberd, Salem, Lewis and Hore at some point for a couple of weeks. 

So it wasn't bad luck, we just didn't have the cattle to hold out the opposition.  One would think that putting Lever, May and Jetta into those games in 2019 would have seen the opposition kick a couple of goals less.  It was remarkable how close we were in those games.....

The positive is  (as you have alluded.)...it shouldn't happen again with the players now on the pre-season track. 

9 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

It wasn't surprising that the opposition during that period were accurate......we had little in the way of defenders!  With little pressure, easy shots ensue.

During that period we were missing Lever and Jetta for the whole time.  May -  all the period except for 1 game.  But we also lost Hibberd, Salem, Lewis and Hore at some point for a couple of weeks. 

So it wasn't bad luck, we just didn't have the cattle to hold out the opposition.  One would think that putting Lever, May and Jetta into those games in 2019 would have seen the opposition kick a couple of goals less.  It was remarkable how close we were in those games.....

The positive is  (as you have alluded.)...it shouldn't happen again with the players now on the pre-season track. 

It wasn't just not having defenders. We struggled to run and cover defensively, particularly late in quarters and games. This made it easy for teams to move the ball forward and meant they had lots of shots at goal under little pressure and/or from close range. And of couse thiss heaped more pressure on tge undermanned defence.

It often felt if we were playing one man down.

15 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Throws seed on barren ground. 
 

Those that don’t understand now either don’t want to or just never will. 

some people see themselves as an extension of the mfc PR machine and act accordingly. only criticising club individuals and decisions when it is safe to do so or not at all

Edited January 5, 20205 yr by Demons1858

Sniping aside, is there an official re-start date for training? Would be a good distraction for school hols - thanks!

14 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

Sniping aside, is there an official re-start date for training? Would be a good distraction for school hols - thanks!

On the club site now...

AFL training sessions

Date: Friday 7 January
Start time: 9.45am
Location: Gosch's Paddock

Let's change the date to the 10th of Jan...

Someone is still in holiday mode.

On 1/5/2020 at 6:52 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

Throws seed on barren ground. 
 

Those that don’t understand now either don’t want to or just never will. 

Most of the squad were doing the tackling etc towards thr end of pre season, this is the myth as fact I talk about 

I was there watching it

Most of the experts on here weren't 

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Most of the squad were doing the tackling etc towards thr end of pre season, this is the myth as fact I talk about 

I was there watching it

Most of the experts on here weren't 

For what it’s worth Saty I think Oliver, Harmes, Petracca and Brayshaw were ready to play, if a touch underdone. They’d done enough training and match sim. You are correct there. 

Viney, Jones and to an extent Melksham were not and the first two probably shouldn’t have played.

Thats the preseason component of fitness to play. There was also so many other issues impacting the type of team the players were coming back in to.

Frost and Oscar weren’t ready to cover May and were unsure of their roles or place in the side.

Sparrow wasn’t ready at all and was chucked in because Lewis was a late out and we needed a healthy body.

KK and Vanders (and JKH) going down late suddenly meant we were short wing options and C Wagner was there.

But the biggest failings of last summer wasn’t that individuals weren’t ready it was that the team was underprepared due to missing so many players. The team wasn’t training with the right intensity and whilst that’s easy to say in hindsight and hard to say at the time I think it’s clear now. 

This preseason sounds promising especially with the injury prone lads tracking well, in lever, vanders, viney, smith, may, big mac, weid and melk all on the park, along with the players who have reportedly improved their fitness in tracc, Salem and fritta, i am confident in these three to really step it up a notch and have really good years with many more to come, hopefully one or two of the second year players can have a impact and become regular afl senior players, i think J.JORDON could be our man to do it and by all reports he has also improved his fitness, i would like to hear others thoughts on him.

On 1/5/2020 at 4:33 AM, Wrecker45 said:

I joined a fitness gym recently where you need to do boxing and I find it difficult to get simple combination punches in the right order when I am exhausted. There is no doubt fatigue played a factor in our disposal.

Fitness crucified us last year. Not just injury.

I agree, Maggots were just the icing on the cake........

The first time Clarry kicked a ball to Tmac was during preseason match 2.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

For what it’s worth Saty I think Oliver, Harmes, Petracca and Brayshaw were ready to play, if a touch underdone. They’d done enough training and match sim. You are correct there. 

Viney, Jones and to an extent Melksham were not and the first two probably shouldn’t have played.

Thats the preseason component of fitness to play. There was also so many other issues impacting the type of team the players were coming back in to.

Frost and Oscar weren’t ready to cover May and were unsure of their roles or place in the side.

Sparrow wasn’t ready at all and was chucked in because Lewis was a late out and we needed a healthy body.

KK and Vanders (and JKH) going down late suddenly meant we were short wing options and C Wagner was there.

But the biggest failings of last summer wasn’t that individuals weren’t ready it was that the team was underprepared due to missing so many players. The team wasn’t training with the right intensity and whilst that’s easy to say in hindsight and hard to say at the time I think it’s clear now. 

wasn't that hard to pick at all DS if you have been to a few training sessions before to compare with. if seasoned track watchers can't distinguish between the worst preseason a club has had in a long time and other preseasons then they are deliberately turning a blind eye or don't know much about the game

Edited January 7, 20205 yr by Demons1858

I took comfort from the explanation a lot of what went wrong last year was largely due to lack of preparation etc   So how depressing it is that Saty (who usually over-inflates our tyres) is telling us that we were ripe to go last year.  I'm losing all hope now.  Pass the valium please.

37 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

wasn't that hard to pick at all DS if you have been to a few training sessions before to compare with. if seasoned track watchers can't distinguish between the worst preseason a club has had in a long time and other preseasons then they are deliberately turning a blind eye or don't know much about the game

Mainly trying to give myself cover unless I was overly optimistic in my reports and someone drags them up!

But there were positives. May looked great before injury. KK and Fritsch looked good on the wings. Some rehab group guys were coming back in to the main group. 

Some of what they were doing looked good. It’s hard to see what they weren’t doing - which was not nearly enough high intensity two way drills with good players.

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Most of the squad were doing the tackling etc towards thr end of pre season, this is the myth as fact I talk about 

I was there watching it

Most of the experts on here weren't 

I'm certainly no expert and have never claimed to be and I confess to not anticipating the effect last year's disastersous preseason would have on team performance.  What I've learned over the last 12 months or so is how important a preseason is.  We've heard so often players who are having good seasons say it started with the preseason.  I didn't listen to that as I should have.  Misson told the Board that our preseason would impact our start and of course injury before the first match and during the season didn't give us any chance to gain momentum.

Burgess said a team that had as many have post season operations and so many off the track was always going to be in a bad position.

Elite sportspersons who come back after injury always take time to return to their best form.  We've seen it in many sports countless times and I can't see why footy would be any different.

And Saty if your assertion that it was all mental is correct that's the most depressing of scenarios.  Let's see how this season goes, it will tell us a lot.

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

For what it’s worth Saty I think Oliver, Harmes, Petracca and Brayshaw were ready to play, if a touch underdone. They’d done enough training and match sim. You are correct there. 

Viney, Jones and to an extent Melksham were not and the first two probably shouldn’t have played.

Thats the preseason component of fitness to play. There was also so many other issues impacting the type of team the players were coming back in to.

Frost and Oscar weren’t ready to cover May and were unsure of their roles or place in the side.

Sparrow wasn’t ready at all and was chucked in because Lewis was a late out and we needed a healthy body.

KK and Vanders (and JKH) going down late suddenly meant we were short wing options and C Wagner was there.

But the biggest failings of last summer wasn’t that individuals weren’t ready it was that the team was underprepared due to missing so many players. The team wasn’t training with the right intensity and whilst that’s easy to say in hindsight and hard to say at the time I think it’s clear now. 

DS living in Sydney I am very grateful for you and any others who go to the trouble to write up what they see at pre season training. It's really appreciated. However, I have to say I read them mainly to read who's training and not for most poster's opinions unless they are repeating info they've been directly given by the coaches or to a lesser extent the players. 

To state those players were ready to go just isn't logically correct. To be correct it would mean that you can miss up to 50% of the pre season sessions and it doesn't matter. Of course you can't be the same player without them. I went to pre season sessions in mid Dec and late Jan and from memory Trac and Gus were in rehab throughout that significant part of pre season. 

Roosy once discussed how little time the coaches have to actually train the players in the preseason. He said that if a player misses the conditioning work pre Christmas they never catch up and it heavily impacts their season. Post Christmas they have to concentrate on developing how they play and not  conditioning. Clearly if you line up the 2018 Clarry who's done all the sessions and the 2019 one the first one is going to stomp on the second one and that's born out by his stats and he was a lot less effected than Trac and Gus. It's a nonsense to dismiss that impact and think they are ready to go.