51 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Exactly. Jackson has not played as a forward.  It’s about position and leading and competitive marking. Jackson has not shown this so why suddenly in the AFL?? Ridiculous 

Jason Taylor has watched him as a forward and said he was impressed. I don't think we will go for him considering we just picked up Brown. I think we have set our sights on Young. Pick 8 will probably be split if Freo want it to be. But Kemp or Weightman will be tossed up for pick 8 or 10. Pick 22 from Freo will probably be another small forward like Pickett if we go that way. 

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He hasn't.

Started playing ruckman then resting key forward later towards the year at Colts level and by all reports really drove his bargain up even more due to some of his potential he showed when playing up forward.

I know @Pennant St Dee has a good eye for talent up the West. Were you able to see him live down at Colts level?

Seen him earlier in the year against Subi, heavily rotated between forward and Ruck, and got plenty of the footy, not sure on his kicking though because he looked to bring the outsiders into the game, which he did by hand frequently 

He was clearly very athletic and raw, but I'll be honest away from TV and a few games I haven't seen enough of him to say we must take him. I'm going to have to trust Taylor's expertise if he decides to take him at 3. I do know both WA clubs rate him very highly and  both would have taken him with their first pick if he was available and that has been the talk over here for the entire season.

I think we're getting a  potentially very good player, but our need for outside ball users has me quesioning if I'd take him at 3.

9 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

He plays as a forward and allows us to play Max as an attacking weapon in the ruck rotating forward. 

Or he’s just the best player available. If you’ve got two gun ruckmen then you can make it work as a weapon, especially if one is as mobile as Jackson. West Coast were equal top when Naitanui did his knee near the end of 2018, and won the flag with a two ruck combo. 

Or do you think we shouldn’t draft the best player available because he’s not a half back flanker?

Best player available going by the rankings is Green then Young [after Rowell and Anderson] And your ruckman is slightly below 200cm good luck with that. He is NOT a proven forward or defender, Good luck with that.

Patrick Cripps was drafted at #13 in his draft year (2013). 

These are  the players selected ahead of him -

1. Tom Boyd    
2. Josh Kelly    
3. Jack Billings    
4. Marcus Bontempelli    
5. Kade Kolodjashnij    
6. Matthew Scharenberg    
7. James Aish
8. Luke McDonald
9. Christian Salem    
10. Nathan Freeman    
11. Dom Sheed    
12. Ben Lennon

Who was best available?

59 minutes ago, Deebacle said:

Best player available going by the rankings

Whose rankings? 

Not necessarily Jason Taylor's rankings.

Amateur draft pundits are a rough guide, but that's it. 

29 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

Whose rankings? 

Not necessarily Jason Taylor's rankings.

Amateur draft pundits are a rough guide, but that's it. 

You're making far too much sense in here Axis. But you're hitting your head against a brick wall against some of this lot who have made a decision bases on a 3 minute highlight reel.

I am Jackson fan and get the sense why our recruiters are heavily considering him at 3.

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by dazzledavey36

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're making far too much sense in here Axis. But you're hitting your head against a brick wall against some of this lot who have made a decision bases on a 3 minute highlight reel.

I am Jackson fan and get the sense why our recruiters are heavily considering him at 3.

After watching highlights I’m with you I would take Jackson simply because I feel he has more upside, has a few tricks still a bit raw but geez could be something, I’m sure some posters complained when we took a fat red head kid over parish too

Blah blah blah

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by ProDee

The club has duty to bid on Green at 3 he will help the midfield more than a rookie ruckman who is going to take 3-4 years to develop and maybe in that time Bradtke will be the number 2 ruckman behind Gawn.

The development of Bradtke in the long term may be stiffled if the chose Jackson. 

All the reports on Green are very good and he may have gone one if he played in Victoria

2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Patrick Cripps was drafted at #13 in his draft year (2013). 

These are  the players selected ahead of him -

1. Tom Boyd    
2. Josh Kelly    
3. Jack Billings    
4. Marcus Bontempelli    
5. Kade Kolodjashnij    
6. Matthew Scharenberg    
7. James Aish
8. Luke McDonald
9. Christian Salem    
10. Nathan Freeman    
11. Dom Sheed    
12. Ben Lennon

Who was best available?

2, 4, 13 box trifecta please!

7 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Whose rankings? 

Not necessarily Jason Taylor's rankings.

Amateur draft pundits are a rough guide, but that's it. 

Will not help us for at least another 3 years, that is if he stays in Victoria that long. Waste of a pick. And I think you could find more clubs not thinking of drafting him at 3 if they had the choice. But that is typical of us.

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

Blah blah blah

I take it this means you wouldn't bid on Green and would prefer Jackson, mate?

17 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Tom Green should be nominated at 3.  He is a Cripps like player. We cannot allow Giants a free swing. Make them pay maximum points if they want him.  

If they don’t match, I’d happily bring him into a red and blue jumper. 

 

Yeah!

He's just like Cripps or David Myers!

Can't miss!

9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Patrick Cripps was drafted at #13 in his draft year (2013). 

These are  the players selected ahead of him -

1. Tom Boyd    
2. Josh Kelly    
3. Jack Billings    
4. Marcus Bontempelli    
5. Kade Kolodjashnij    
6. Matthew Scharenberg    
7. James Aish
8. Luke McDonald
9. Christian Salem    
10. Nathan Freeman    
11. Dom Sheed    
12. Ben Lennon

Who was best available?

If the tigers hadn't have won 2 flags since they'd be kicking themselves.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

I take it this means you wouldn't bid on Green and would prefer Jackson, mate?

No, I just wanted to delete a comment, but instead had to edit my own piffle.

I'd be happy with Green from the limited amount I've seen.  You can't have enough quality contested ball winning mids.  

That said, Jackson's an intriguing prospect.

On 11/20/2019 at 5:17 PM, ProDee said:

No, I just wanted to delete a comment, but instead had to edit my own piffle.

I'd be happy with Green from the limited amount I've seen.  You can't have enough quality contested ball winning mids.  

That said, Jackson's an intriguing prospect.

Agree.

I don't think we can lose either way, and both will be very good players at the very least.

Only mistake we could make is by using pick 3 on a flanker.

46 minutes ago, ProDee said:

No, I just wanted to delete a comment, but instead had to edit my own piffle.

I'd be happy with Green from the limited amount I've seen.  You can't have enough quality contested ball winning mids.  

That said, Jackson's an intriguing prospect.

Completely agree.

Having seen Jackson's recruitment in a new way (via Mach's post in the Jackson thread), I'm coming around to the idea of Jackson as a tall target forward and a tackler inside forward 50 with his mobility.

9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Patrick Cripps was drafted at #13 in his draft year (2013). 

These are  the players selected ahead of him -

1. Tom Boyd  - had all the talent but body and mind failed  
2. Josh Kelly   - star, but is he a superstar?
3. Jack Billings    - all the skills, but a little bit private school and undersized
4. Marcus Bontempelli   -- the late bloomer with huge upside, a worthy gamble 
5. Kade Kolodjashnij    - great junior, was he ruined by the Suns?
6. Matthew Scharenberg    - undone by injuries, although also a bit inbetween size/role
7. James Aish - contested ball numbers told the story but still a good player
8. Luke McDonald - overrated by father son? Skills and poise never as good as reported
9. Christian Salem   - size/athleticism not special but skills and quality very good, surely has another gear
10. Nathan Freeman    - injuries or was it character? I've heard both.
11. Dom Sheed    - skills and traits mostly aren't special but strong, tough and a big moment player
12. Ben Lennon - had the skills, but junior production wasn't elite and you question if he had the desire.

Who was best available?

Added comments for the first 12 taken. 

The upside guys like Bont - excellent, Lennon - fail. The highly skilled - Billings -tick, KK - fail, Salem - ok. The low risk, solid as a rock footballer types - Scharenberg - fail, Aish - meh, McDonald - meh, Sheed - good.

Cripps was meant to be so one dimensional that a Carlton recruiter quit when his colleagues picked him. But his one dimension is off the charts ball winning and he does everything else well enough or at an improving rate.

What is best available? What makes a superstar. I think it starts with ball winning - if you don't have the footballing and physical capabilities - size, strength, speed, fitness etc - to win the ball you won't ever be a star. 

But for every Cripps there's plenty of Matt Crouch's who can win as much if not more of the ball but aren't as dominant. And there's Patrick Dangerfield types who start their careers slowly and develop ball winning to go with the elite physical traits. Then again there's Nat Fyfe who's a skinny half forward flanker who becomes the comps best midfielder. From that list above Fyfe was probably most like Lennon as a draft prospect. One's a 2 time Brownlow medal winner, the other is punting for Utah.

If anyone is wondering about whether we should bid on Green or not,  please do yourselves a favour and watch the U18s Allies vs VIC M at GMHBA (if you haven't already that is).

Does he have flaws?  Of course, as all youngsters do while they're developing.  Handball?  Elite.  Kicking?  I would say average both field and set shots but occasionelly shows glimpses of above average.  Marking?  Quite a rangy player above the head so handy in the forward 50.  50/50 set shot, maybe worse so don't expect a stack of goals most of the time.   Might have the occasional day out. Engine...seems high level at this stage which sees him in everything and working hard after he gives to get to handy spots up forward etc.  Speed...nothing flash but ok.  Who is he like?  Only my opp but reminds me of another Clarry (potentially) in the making.

There's some highlights also of some very good draft players in this such as McGuiness (particularly his last quarter...heading for the Hawks of course), Rowell (seen better games but still mostly very solid when he was on the ground), Anderson, McAsey, Sturgess, Mahony (smokey small forward who, on the ground, looks as good as Weightman at times) etc.

The match is pretty high quality and it's a cracking tight final quarter where you will get to see some of these boys perform under heat at their highest level.

Definitely worthy of 100 minutes imho.  Be wary though, at the end of it it's highly likely you will say "we must bid on Green!" with 3!

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

41 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

If anyone is wondering about whether we should bid on Green or not,  please do yourselves a favour and watch the U18s Allies vs VIC M at GMHBA. 

Or look at todays training report where Clayton Oliver hurt his shoulder

29 minutes ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

Or look at todays training report where Clayton Oliver hurt his shoulder

Surely not Jako!  Stinger they said?

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

If anyone is wondering about whether we should bid on Green or not,  please do yourselves a favour and watch the U18s Allies vs VIC M at GMHBA (if you haven't already that is).

Does he have flaws?  Of course, as all youngsters do while they're developing.  Handball?  Elite.  Kicking?  I would say average both field and set shots but occasionelly shows glimpses of above average.  Marking?  Quite a rangy player above the head so handy in the forward 50.  50/50 set shot, maybe worse so don't expect a stack of goals most of the time.   Might have the occasional day out. Engine...seems high level at this stage which sees him in everything and working hard after he gives to get to handy spots up forward etc.  Speed...nothing flash but ok.  Who is he like?  Only my opp but reminds me of another Clarry (potentially) in the making.

There's some highlights also of some very good draft players in this such as McGuiness (particularly his last quarter...heading for the Hawks of course), Rowell (seen better games but still mostly very solid when he was on the ground), Anderson, McAsey, Sturgess, Mahony (smokey small forward who, on the ground, looks as good as Weightman at times) etc.

The match is pretty high quality and it's a cracking tight final quarter where you will get to see some of these boys perform under heat at their highest level.

Definitely worthy of 100 minutes imho.  Be wary though, at the end of it it's highly likely you will say "we must bid on Green!" with 3!

I was at that game. Walked away thinking he was the best player I saw. Put on a clinic.

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Added comments for the first 12 taken. 

The upside guys like Bont - excellent, Lennon - fail. The highly skilled - Billings -tick, KK - fail, Salem - ok. The low risk, solid as a rock footballer types - Scharenberg - fail, Aish - meh, McDonald - meh, Sheed - good.

Cripps was meant to be so one dimensional that a Carlton recruiter quit when his colleagues picked him. But his one dimension is off the charts ball winning and he does everything else well enough or at an improving rate.

What is best available? What makes a superstar. I think it starts with ball winning - if you don't have the footballing and physical capabilities - size, strength, speed, fitness etc - to win the ball you won't ever be a star. 

But for every Cripps there's plenty of Matt Crouch's who can win as much if not more of the ball but aren't as dominant. And there's Patrick Dangerfield types who start their careers slowly and develop ball winning to go with the elite physical traits. Then again there's Nat Fyfe who's a skinny half forward flanker who becomes the comps best midfielder. From that list above Fyfe was probably most like Lennon as a draft prospect. One's a 2 time Brownlow medal winner, the other is punting for Utah.

Is that the All Australian Matt Crouch you are talking of? If the range was Matt Crouch to Patrick Cripps he would be the first pick in the draft.

4 hours ago, A F said:

Completely agree.

Having seen Jackson's recruitment in a new way (via Mach's post in the Jackson thread), I'm coming around to the idea of Jackson as a tall target forward and a tackler inside forward 50 with his mobility.

Dreams and reality. Never proven as a forward but I’m sure Dees can turn Jackson into a forward. Dreamers. 

It seems to me that Green is certainly worthy of nominating at #3. The failure to do so would come as a surprise to me - why are we being such nice guys?