Who bares the most blame?

[old dee 24,028]

40 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

I thought we were informed that practicing goal kicker wasn’t required...

Thank God that wisdom has moved on with the people who espoused it.

[Deeman 1,550]

4 hours ago, old dee said:

Who bares the most blame?

 

The strippers they hired as entertainment for Mad Monday.

[monoccular 17,697]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

They did it by having a fit list during the season and getting some confidence at the right time of the year.
Still dropped games they shouldn't have and made harder work than should have been in others.
You look at the stats, we'd dominate clearance and inside 50 count near every game but the ball would often leave just as quick as it went in.
The midfield consisted of Viney, Clarry, Brayshaw and Jones, none of whom precision by foot is a strong point.
Even the 2 finals we couldn't put the opposition away till late game despite being all over them both early.
It was manic attack on the ball and man that got us through.
Then we came up against a side in the prelim who could move the ball with some real precision,  they pulled our pants down for all to see.

And FWIW we've missed Hogan rotating through the forward line with Tmac this year as the Weid hasn't come on like we'd hoped.
For all his flaws a big bloke with a good engine is hard to match up on.
 

Yes of course we have missed him (Hogan), but had Tom had an uninterrupted and healthy season he would have been missed far less. 

And of course he wasn’t there at the business end of 2018 either. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by monoccular

[Fork 'em 7,052]

When youthful excitement at the prospect of playing finals and Weid doing his bit got us through.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Another thread for the depressives

More post mortems than aftet 9/11

Everybody says that during the pre season they are training the house down, they were

They practice set shot, on the run, turnover, out the back goalkicking, looks great at training and the ball movement, but didn't translate to game day

I have excellent hand eye coordination and can smash a ball straight down the middle at a driving range, put me on a golf course and with trees, bunkers etc different result

They could spend a whole sessiom practicing, if it doesn't translate to game day

Goalkicking is a confidence thing Castagna in the Grand Final being the perfect example

[P-man 13,367]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

They did it by having a fit list during the season and getting some confidence at the right time of the year.
Still dropped games they shouldn't have and made harder work than should have been in others.
You look at the stats, we'd dominate clearance and inside 50 count near every game but the ball would often leave just as quick as it went in.
The midfield consisted of Viney, Clarry, Brayshaw and Jones, none of whom precision by foot is a strong point.
Even the 2 finals we couldn't put the opposition away till late game despite being all over them both early.
It was manic attack on the ball and man that got us through.
Then we came up against a side in the prelim who could move the ball with some real precision,  they pulled our pants down for all to see.

And FWIW we've missed Hogan rotating through the forward line with Tmac this year as the Weid hasn't come on like we'd hoped.
For all his flaws a big bloke with a good engine is hard to match up on.
 

I don’t disagree with all of that, but if you are trying to suggest our skill execution this year was the same as it was last year, I can’t agree. There was clearly a drop in confidence and team cohesion.

That isn’t to say that list improvements don’t need to be made, but a healthy list with a bit more confidence in themselves and one another will go a long away.

[bluey 1,118]

Well they just sacked five coaches, the list Manager, and the fitness Svengali, so I’m done thinking “someone” on a high may just understand what’s happened, I doubt  too many people believe the chaff they have been fed about injuries being the reason, for the club reclaiming it’s basket case status so quickly.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,071]

11 minutes ago, bluey said:

Well they just sacked five coaches, the list Manager, and the fitness Svengali, so I’m done thinking “someone” on a high may just understand what’s happened, I doubt  too many people believe the chaff they have been fed about injuries being the reason, for the club reclaiming it’s basket case status so quickly.

Sacked? Are you sure? Just because Viney, Misson, Jennings and others have left the club it doesn't mean they were "sacked". Would they have been sacked if they didn't leave voluntarily? Who knows? But let's keep to the facts.

[old dee 24,028]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

When youthful excitement at the prospect of playing finals and Weid doing his bit got us through.

And hasn't since.

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

6 hours ago, old dee said:

You have to wonder at times who is the most to blame for a teams poor results.

Most of the time the players quite rightly cop it because they are the living proof when the final siren blows.

However a story in today's HUN shows to me that FD's should cop more of the blame then they currently get.

The surprise is that the MFC are looking for a kicking coach because they are not happy with our kicking for goal.

Hell there is a surprise every Dees supporter on the planet has been crying out for one since at least 2017.

Three seasons guys and the penny has finally dropped I suppose we should all be happy that they have finally acted but how many more games would we have won over the last two years if we had employed someone at the end of 2017 when the problem was staring us in the face.

 

It's called 'catch up' OD.  We have rarely if ever been a club that's stayed in touch with the latest trends, innovative or ahead of the curve.  And goal kicking coaching surely isn't an innovation nor need a light bulb moment before waking to the fact it's an important factor and some tutoring from one of the greats helpful for most.

Much of it is in the mind imv but part of bringing in a goal kicking great is being taught by someone who no one has any question marks over.  Any player learning from that tutor, their mind set and confidence is surely going to go up significantly.

Have been calling for this since the 2012 Neeld fiasco began.

If anyone thinks we don't need one ... you couldn't be further from the truth.  When executing more difficult kicks like bananas you aren't going split the middle too often, if at all, if you don't have your method and execution sorted with a stack of practice to implant it permanently.  The same but to a lessor degree for various angles like around the corner Stevie J type goals (a great example at 2:39 in the attached vid from the 2011 GF).

1.14 for a great example of a tight banana technique that stands up under pressure from Bartel, again in the 2011 GF.  And another from Stevie J at 2.56

I watched a beautiful banana from Fritschkreig at one stage this year from almost the same spot as Bartell's.  Then there was T-Mac from the opposite pocket which didn't quite get near it... might need some tweaking.  Every little advantage counts, especially in a tight game.

Why would you not add this to your arsenal as a coach, team / club?

 

[old dee 24,028]

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

It's called 'catch up' OD.  We have rarely if ever been a club that's stayed in touch with the latest trends, innovative or ahead of the curve.  And goal kicking coaching surely isn't an innovation nor need a light bulb moment before waking to the fact it's an important factor and some tutoring from one of the greats helpful for most.

Much of it is in the mind imv but part of bringing in a goal kicking great is being taught by someone who no one has any question marks over.  Any player learning from that tutor, their mind set and confidence is surely going to go up significantly.

Have been calling for this since the 2012 Neeld fiasco began.

If anyone thinks we don't need one ... you couldn't be further from the truth.  When executing more difficult kicks like bananas you aren't going split the middle too often, if at all, if you don't have your method and execution sorted with a stack of practice to implant it permanently.  The same but to a lessor degree for various angles like around the corner Stevie J type goals (a great example at 2:39 in the attached vid from the 2011 GF).

1.14 for a great example of a tight banana technique that stands up under pressure from Bartel, again in the 2011 GF.  And another from Stevie J at 2.56

I watched a beautiful banana from Fritschkreig at one stage this year from almost the same spot as Bartell's.  Then there was T-Mac from the opposite pocket which didn't quite get near it... might need some tweaking.  Every little advantage counts, especially in a tight game.

Why would you not add this to your arsenal as a coach, team / club?

 

It is shots from directly in front that concern me RN. E.G.  Petracca  cannot kick a goal from  directly  in front to save his life. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

30 minutes ago, old dee said:

It is shots from directly in front that concern me RN. E.G.  Petracca  cannot kick a goal from  directly  in front to save his life. 

Yes i am advocating that a kicking coach would help in all aspects of goal kicking OD.  But the banana in particular as imv if you aren't taught the technique correctly you are way behind the eight ball vs others who have (and have practiced the correct technique insanely till it's a monty) vs those that either haven't been taught or might be practicing madly but using a flawed technique.

Was highlighting the banana as many will say a coach is unecessary it's all in the head.  It is....but it isn't!  Like anything in sport there are nuances.  Correct technique and method will hold you in good stead much of the time even under severe pressure provided you've practiced your butt off.

Yze was a great example of a player who was ok around the goals in general early on but took his kicking skills to elite (i'm guessing with some guidance, technique adjustments) but i know for a fact he put in a ton of practice, often after all others had left the track for an extra hour or so under lights if needed.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

6 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

I remember during my playing days.
I wasn't a bad kick and had reasonable skills but on the run with goals in front I was forking woeful.
Wasn't a bad snap, wasn't a bad set shot.

Same with a bloke leading straight at me.
Would put it at his feet time after time.
Leading on an angle and I could hit 'em.

And you are right about confidence.
The amount of times players were clear and instead of taking a shot they looked to dish off handing responsibility to someone else .....

Even Dusty Martin obviously has his demons.
30m out dead in front and he'll try play on and hook it in every time.
 

Even that requires the right technique and practice FE as does practice under fatigue and pressure 'after' learning the correct technique.

From a mind POV i would imagine Dusty is more comfortable using this method (on an angle that allows him to) vs attempting to just kick straight.  Whatever works for each individual but it also shows Dusty is learning from the greats as this was a ploy Stevie J ingrained into his own game and it worked a treat.  I would be very surprised if Dusty didn't get the idea from him or another/others who he saw doing the same at some point.

Some of our boys, Tracc comes to mind, might do well to change to this method from similar angles instead of trying to kick straight.  That's where a coach also comes into effect.  Offering alternative outside the box methods rather than trying to fix completely flawed 'traditional' ones that some players may never be capable of improving on significantly.

[pitmaster 3,589]

OK I can let some stuff pass by without comment...like the 'had ofs' instead of 'had haves' and 'loosing' for 'losing' but this is in a thread title.

It should be 'Who BEARS the most blame?'

Bear in this case is not an animal but a verb meaning 'to carry' or 'support'. 'Bare' makes no sense in this context unless the originator reckons whoever is most responsible should bare their [censored], but even then I don't think it works.

As to the answer, the midfield and the forwards, for failing to connect and failing to convert inside 50s to genuine scoring opportunities, with a further burden of responsibility for whoever decided we did not need a goal kicking/kicking coach.

[Demonsone 2,050]

Tigers, pies, gws had lots of injuries but their system, culture ensured they won enough games ... club needs to turf out the excuses don’t worry which draft pick number a player comes onto their list. Look at the tigers drafting... most premiership sides of recent years are similar it’s their systems/culture!

[Kent 2,920]

8 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Tigers, pies, gws had lots of injuries but their system, culture ensured they won enough games ... club needs to turf out the excuses don’t worry which draft pick number a player comes onto their list. Look at the tigers drafting... most premiership sides of recent years are similar it’s their systems/culture!

Exactly Stone

All the excuses in the world dont cut it when your club doesn't have or develop winning attitude and culture.

 

 

[dpositive 1,838]

19 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Another thread for the depressives

More post mortems than aftet 9/11

Everybody says that during the pre season they are training the house down, they were

They practice set shot, on the run, turnover, out the back goalkicking, looks great at training and the ball movement, but didn't translate to game day

I have excellent hand eye coordination and can smash a ball straight down the middle at a driving range, put me on a golf course and with trees, bunkers etc different result

They could spend a whole sessiom practicing, if it doesn't translate to game day

Goalkicking is a confidence thing Castagna in the Grand Final being the perfect example

Good points Saty.

Confidence is big factor.I have banged on a bit all year about umpiring impacting on confidence and our technique failures which may affect that. Have called for umpiring advice at training but not sure if that occurred.

Also training intensity to match game day situations. Not sure how that is inserted at training.

Have always enjoyed your training reports and will look forwa d to you commenting on those two issues next season.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

20 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 Goalkicking is a confidence thing Castagna in the Grand Final being the perfect example

Costagna was hungry.
Wanted a goal on the big day bad.
In the end after 5 failed attempts he lost confidence and started dishing off.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,779]

Our System, method and pace are the real worries for me, we over handball around stoppages and our kicking through zones is probably the worst in the league.

Our biggest flaw is in our forward line where we don't apply enough physical tackling pressure.

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

4 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

Our System, method and pace are the real worries for me, we over handball around stoppages and our kicking through zones is probably the worst in the league.

Our biggest flaw is in our forward line where we don't apply enough physical tackling pressure.

Too many systems and not enough natural instinct all over the ground. 

Overthinking killed a lot of the season 

[DemonOX 8,837]

No matter if we are going well or going crap it always comes back to the COACH. 

At the end of the day it’s his responsibility to get the team going. 

[Demonstone 23,426]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Exactly Stone

You may have me confused with Demonsone.  The names are very similar but I'm the one with the Keith Richards avatar.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Threads like this amuse me

Previous season we were regularly kicking 100 points, Tommy Mc couldn't miss, now again we need a kicking coach

It is CONFIDENCE not technique, they can all kick, it is the pressure of game day, when things go bad, everything is [censored] Giants forward line in the GF anyone?

Most on here have played footy at some level, we all never missed at training, game day?

[sue 9,233]

52 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Threads like this amuse me

Previous season we were regularly kicking 100 points, Tommy Mc couldn't miss, now again we need a kicking coach

It is CONFIDENCE not technique, they can all kick, it is the pressure of game day, when things go bad, everything is [censored] Giants forward line in the GF anyone?

Most on here have played footy at some level, we all never missed at training, game day?

I think you are right.  But I doubt if the Giants had enough shots on goal to draw any conclusions abut their confidence.

Still the more specialist coaches the better I think - even if one of them addresses the mental issues.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

Yes we need a forking kicking coach.
Even when kicking 100pts and winning a couple finals we were butchering it everywhere.

Having said that I wonder how much it will help in the heat of game day.
Something tells me if they can't with any sort of efficiency kick by now they never will.
Old habits die hard.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Fork 'em