Insane record from 1955 to 1960

[Demonland 65,652]

Anyone got a Delorean?

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,614]

1 minute ago, Demonland said:

Anyone got a Delorean?

 

Just imagine that level of discipline and commitment to the jumper now....

That is how good WE once were......

[kongwacker 65]

“An insane record” put together by some well credentialed football people:

From the top,

Bert Chadwick, president

Jim Cardwell, secretary (ceo)

Ivor Warne-Smith, chairman of selectors

Norm Smith, coach

Captains variously, Noel McMahen, John Beckwith, Ron Barassi

The first four mentioned are the greats of the club that assembled and managed an extraordinary range of football talent and the changing guard of captains through that period shows the talent that was coming through.

Sustained success requires a well oiled group of above average talent off-field as well a great blend of on-field talent.

I wonder how far off the right mix is together with a dose of good luck on a player injury front.

[tiers 2,783]

This was before zoning (the most distorting concept ever) and the draft/salary caps. Success was a direct function of recruitment based on foresight, leadership and initiative and we had them in abundance. Jim Cardwell was the most effective club secretary of all time when he could approach a recruit with an offer to play at the MCG with the likes of Barassi and Beckwith.

Zoning made these advantages worthless as clubs had exclusive rights over their zones. If you got a good, growing zone such as the dorks and the lolly blues did, it led to success. If you got a lousy zone like we did, clubs struggled to survive and advance.

Until 1964 we had exclusive use of the MCG for training and matches (we trained at the MCG until the 1980s before the move to the Junction Oval). In 1965 toiges joined and deprived us of our inbuilt advantage and progressively other clubs have made it worse.

We was robbed.

[Tony Tea 2,792]

Zones were supposed to rotate through the clubs, but the clubs who got the good zone lobbied to keep them. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,466]

6 hours ago, tiers said:

This was before zoning (the most distorting concept ever) and the draft/salary caps. Success was a direct function of recruitment based on foresight, leadership and initiative and we had them in abundance. Jim Cardwell was the most effective club secretary of all time when he could approach a recruit with an offer to play at the MCG with the likes of Barassi and Beckwith.

Zoning made these advantages worthless as clubs had exclusive rights over their zones. If you got a good, growing zone such as the dorks and the lolly blues did, it led to success. If you got a lousy zone like we did, clubs struggled to survive and advance.

Until 1964 we had exclusive use of the MCG for training and matches (we trained at the MCG until the 1980s before the move to the Junction Oval). In 1965 toiges joined and deprived us of our inbuilt advantage and progressively other clubs have made it worse.

We was robbed.

Where was our zone? And is it correct to say it was "lousy" or was it more that we were incapable of making appropriate use of it? 

[Demonstone 19,320]

Our zone was the Goulburn Valley - ie. Shepparton and surrounding districts.

I grew up in Portland.  Imagine my horror when that zone (Western Border, which included Hamilton) was allocated to flamin"  Collingwood!   They never did too well out of it though, with the notable exception of Billy Picken.

[Demonstone 19,320]

Other clubs and their zones were:

Carlton - Bendigo

Essendon - Wimmera (Horsham etc)

Fitzroy - Hampden (Warrnambool etc)

Footscray - LaTrobe Valley (Gippsland)

Geelong - Geelong area

Hawthorn - Mornington Peninsula

North Melbourne - Ovens & Murray (Albury etc)

Richmond - Sunraysia (Mildura etc)

South Melbourne - Riverina

St Kilda - Ballarat

 

EDIT:  I think clubs also had a metro zone each, ours being the Bentleigh area from whence we picked up a skinny kid called Robert Flower.  Collingwood had the Diamond Valley and Carlton had the Northern Suburbs, both of which were laden with good footballers.

Edited July 19, 2019 by demonstone
more info

[tiers 2,783]

The dorks got Crimmins, Mathews, Scott, Tuck, Langford, Mew, Ayres, Brereton, Wallace and many other 20+0 gamerswithout having to work. In those days the Mornington Peninsular and the Berwick area were growing rapidly whereas most other zones were relatively static. On the basis of this success the dorks were able to import Platter, Dunstall, Buckenara, Judge to add to their bounty.

The lolly blues also had a good zone in Bendigo and were able to recruit many 200+ gamers and premiership players with no effort. Then they were able to recruit Kernahan, Dorotich, Bosustow, Bradley and Motley to add to the bounty.

Doggies had the Latrobe Valley but squandered Quinlan and Round who won Brownlows at other teams.

All other teams has a mixed bag.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,466]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:31 PM, tiers said:

The dorks got Crimmins, Mathews, Scott, Tuck, Langford, Mew, Ayres, Brereton, Wallace and many other 20+0 gamerswithout having to work. In those days the Mornington Peninsular and the Berwick area were growing rapidly whereas most other zones were relatively static. On the basis of this success the dorks were able to import Platter, Dunstall, Buckenara, Judge to add to their bounty.

The lolly blues also had a good zone in Bendigo and were able to recruit many 200+ gamers and premiership players with no effort. Then they were able to recruit Kernahan, Dorotich, Bosustow, Bradley and Motley to add to the bounty.

Doggies had the Latrobe Valley but squandered Quinlan and Round who won Brownlows at other teams.

All other teams has a mixed bag.

 

I find it hard to believe that Bendigo as a zone should be any better or worse than the Goulburn/Shepparton area that we had. I suspect Carlton's relative success with their zone may have had more to do with their ability to extract talent at that time. 

The point about Berwick and Mornington Peninsula being high growth areas makes sense and may have been advantageous to Hawthorn, but I still suspect their main success came from good talent identification programs and good coaching, both of which I suspect were deficient at Melbourne.

[Supermercado 2,617]

We still did pretty well from country and city zones. Battiston, Richards, Connolly, Grinter, Lyon and Tingay from the rural zone and Flower, the Healys, Eishold, Jackson, Newport etc... from the city. Not all champions but solid hands.

Was it Richmond whose country zone dried up and gave them stuff all? Clubs were certainly at the mercy of the talent coming out of their area but at the same time they were expected to help with the development in their zone.

[Go the Biff 3,163]

43 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

We still did pretty well from country and city zones. Battiston, Richards, Connolly, Grinter, Lyon and Tingay from the rural zone and Flower, the Healys, Eishold, Jackson, Newport etc... from the city. Not all champions but solid hands.

Was it Richmond whose country zone dried up and gave them stuff all? Clubs were certainly at the mercy of the talent coming out of their area but at the same time they were expected to help with the development in their zone.

Just from memory Richmond picked up the likes of Geoff Raines, Dale Weightman, Jimmy Jess & Merv Keane from the Mildura / Swan Hill zone. There were probably plenty more

[deebug 1,754]

On 7/18/2019 at 10:36 PM, Demonland said:

Anyone got a Delorean?

 

If you build it i will come. How cool it would be to be able to go back and see us during the 50s?

[monoccular 16,180]

On 7/19/2019 at 9:23 AM, kongwacker said:

“An insane record” put together by some well credentialed football people:

From the top,

Bert Chadwick, president

Jim Cardwell, secretary (ceo)

Ivor Warne-Smith, chairman of selectors

Norm Smith, coach

Captains variously, Noel McMahen, John Beckwith, Ron Barassi

The first four mentioned are the greats of the club that assembled and managed an extraordinary range of football talent and the changing guard of captains through that period shows the talent that was coming through.

Sustained success requires a well oiled group of above average talent off-field as well a great blend of on-field talent.

I wonder how far off the right mix is together with a dose of good luck on a player injury front.

Jim Cardwell, secretary (ceo) - and recruiting officer as I recall.

On 7/19/2019 at 4:17 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Where was our zone? And is it correct to say it was "lousy" or was it more that we were incapable of making appropriate use of it? 

Got some decent return from the Goulburn Valley and I thought our suburban zone included Edithvale-Aspendale (Federal League) that yielded Stan Alves and perhaps others.

1 hour ago, deebug said:

If you build it i will come. How cool it would be to be able to go back and see us during the 50s?

I am fortunate enough to have been there.  Never expected to lose, and never two in a row.

Ahhhh . true glory days.

[deebug 1,754]

11 hours ago, monoccular said:

Jim Cardwell, secretary (ceo) - and recruiting officer as I recall.

Got some decent return from the Goulburn Valley and I thought our suburban zone included Edithvale-Aspendale (Federal League) that yielded Stan Alves and perhaps others.

I am fortunate enough to have been there.  Never expected to lose, and never two in a row.

Ahhhh . true glory days.

It would have been amazing.

 

[bush demon 1,899]

This was 'peak demons', when everything was set up for melbourne to win flags.  when the clubs had complained long and hard enough change came, including recruiting zones and loss of the mcg. barassi saw the writing on the wall and took his mojo elsewhere. at least we ended up with ross dillon from shep. zone in 1966.

[Engorged Onion 9,389]

On 7/19/2019 at 4:27 PM, demonstone said:

Our zone was the Goulburn Valley - ie. Shepparton and surrounding districts.

I grew up in Portland.  Imagine my horror when that zone (Western Border, which included Hamilton) was allocated to flamin"  Collingwood!   They never did too well out of it though, with the notable exception of Billy Picken.

Ahh I spent the first 18years of my life in Portland - and played against Billy Pickens son Marcus up in Hamilton in U/16 U18’s when he got drafted. Not too many Melbourne supporters down that way - nor players - but I believe Ian ‘Tiger’ Ridley was from there originally. Anyway thanks to my old man, I’ve learned you cannot have any pleasure without a lot of pain. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Engorged Onion

[Demonstone 19,320]

Pretty sure that Ian Ridley was recruited from Hamilton Imperials which were in the same league.  

Portlanders who played for Melbourne were Stewart Spencer and Clyde Laidlaw,  both stars of the 1950s. 

 

[bush demon 1,899]

46 minutes ago, deebug said:

3 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Pretty sure that Ian Ridley was recruited from Hamilton Imperials which were in the same league.  

Portlanders who played for Melbourne were Stewart Spencer and Clyde Laidlaw,  both stars of the 1950s. 

 

Stan Alves had the distinction of playing his first three games in an all-winning, all-conquering demons team in 1965. the following week we were taken apart by the saints (and ian cooper) and for the next ten years his demons were our demons.