6 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

No way would I do that. A pick around the 10 mark and the opportunity to sign Tomlinson, who is an average, nothing sort of player imo, and we lose Brayshaw who is still early 20s and is more than capable of bouncing back to his best.

As pointed out earlier by STMJ, we drafted a very capable core who are just about to come into their prime years. Obviously we need to make some tweaks, but I’ll be filthy if we start deviating from that plan of having these guys come through together. We’ve already lost Hogan, can’t afford to lose Brayshaw or Petracca this trade period imo.

be realistic

Brayshaw at present would get you at best mid first rounder.

Next year with no improvement, he's mid second rounder at best

4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

be realistic

Brayshaw at present would get you at best mid first rounder.

Next year with no improvement, he's mid second rounder at best

Glass half empty - why would he have no improvement?

The year before when he did a full pre-season he came 3rd in the Brownlow.

 

The guy ran third in the Brownlow in a year when we played in a Prelim.

He has a poor year along with twenty others and people want to fling him!

God deliver me. 

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

The guy ran third in the Brownlow in a year when we played in a Prelim.

He has a poor year along with twenty others and people want to fling him!

God deliver me. 

 

I wish people were a bit smarter about how much weight they attributed to this supposed achievement.

30 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

I wish people were a bit smarter about how much weight they attributed to this supposed achievement.

What, you think running 3rd in a Brownlow is a "supposed achievement"?

28 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

I wish people were a bit smarter about how much weight they attributed to this supposed achievement.

He came third in the 2018 Brownlow because he had 37 possession 3 goal games. Players capable of those sorts of numbers don’t grow on trees. 

He didn’t finish third in the Brownlow by accident.

36 minutes ago, old dee said:

The guy ran third in the Brownlow in a year when we played in a Prelim.

He has a poor year along with twenty others and people want to fling him!

God deliver me. 

Agreed.  It’s fuc&)$n ridiculous.  

19 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

be realistic

Brayshaw at present would get you at best mid first rounder.

Next year with no improvement, he's mid second rounder at best

Huh? I think you missed my point. I’m not arguing his worth, I’m saying I want to keep him rather than take a speculative late first round pick. I agree his value is low atm, exactly one of the main reasons I wouldn’t trade him.

Brayshaw ain’t going anywhere... 

Gawn Star, Clarry & A.B. are tarzan gripped together. Unbreakable!

Edited September 1, 20195 yr by Dee tention

 

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

He came third in the 2018 Brownlow because he had 37 possession 3 goal games. Players capable of those sorts of numbers don’t grow on trees. 

He didn’t finish third in the Brownlow by accident.

21 hours ago, Thehardtackler said:

Brayshaw is simply untouchable. He is a solid tackler, has a great hip and shoulder and is damaging going forward. He also helps our spread when he is fit. Personally think this thread should be shut down. He could be our captain in a few years.

Omg shut down teh internetz! All teh ppl are saying things I don’t like !!!! 

22 hours ago, Thehardtackler said:

Brayshaw is simply untouchable. He is a solid tackler, has a great hip and shoulder and is damaging going forward. He also helps our spread when he is fit. Personally think this thread should be shut down. He could be our captain in a few years.

Interesting how we each see things. To me he's none of these.

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

What, you think running 3rd in a Brownlow is a "supposed achievement"?

It’s criminal that somehow Brayshaw received more votes than Oliver. But we all know the umpires are the ones that award the votes, and they are heavily guided by the stat sheet. I didn’t say he had a bad season, but FMD he didn’t have the 3rd best season of any player in 2018. He would barely make the top-25.

4 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Interesting how we each see things. To me he's none of these.

Yeah. I see him more of a rolls royce, than someone who hits and damages forward with force. If he was to reach his potential, i see him more as a Robert Harvey type of player that learns how to be a one paced endurance mid that just runs all day and gets to the right spots. He's far away from that though.

Edited September 1, 20195 yr by John Demonic

15 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Yeah. I see him more of a rolls royce, than someone who hits and damages forward with force. If he was to reach his potential, i see him more as a Robert Harvey type of player that learns how to be a one paced endurance mid that just runs all day and gets to the right spots. He's far away from that though.

Largely agree, JD.

If he improved his kicking and 2 way running, I'd be a lot happier about keeping him wherever possible.

I do agree with STMJ's comment about this core group growing together to be our future, but if there is any hesitation by a player about staying, I'd lean toward maximising trade value. Of course, I don't know if this is the case with Gus. If he's committed to the group, fantastic, if in doubt, do the deal.

Hogan is an example of second thoughts. Whatever we might think about value for the Hogan trade, once a crack opened we did the deal relatively quickly. Obviously Hogan is not Gus.

Edited September 1, 20195 yr by Moonshadow

It is a total myth that we have a glut of inside midfielders. With Tyson traded out end of 2018 and Jones on last legs out we now have Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes as engine room mainstays. That does not qualify as a glut but about the right number in terms of ball winning grunt. Trading out Brayshaw now would be madness. He will bounce back in 2020. He’s too good not to.

Solving the outside run issue should not mean diminishing our capacity to win the aggot. What we need to do is replace our Casey quality players like ANB, JKH, Stretch, Wagner et al with classier types who can be fed the ball on the outside. Players who can break lines, make good decisions and execute. Players who won’t [censored] the bed under pressure.

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

It is a total myth that we have a glut of inside midfielders. With Tyson traded out end of 2018 and Jones on last legs out we now have Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes as engine room mainstays. That does not qualify as a glut but about the right number in terms of ball winning grunt. Trading out Brayshaw now would be madness. He will bounce back in 2020. He’s too good not to.

Solving the outside run issue should not mean diminishing our capacity to win the aggot. What we need to do is replace our Casey quality players like ANB, JKH, Stretch, Wagner et al with classier types who can be fed the ball on the outside. Players who can break lines, make good decisions and execute. Players who won’t [censored] the bed under pressure.

Oliver, Viney, Harmes and Brayshaw is how many inside mids we have in our 22 usually.

We also have Sparrow, Jones, Petracca & vB as players who can play that role proficiently.

Whom do we have playing the outside role? JKH? ANB? Stretch? As you mentioned, they are not the answer, which means we don't really have anyone capable of playing it well, so as far as balance goes we have about 8 players for the inside mid role and 0 for the outside role. When Oliver, Viney, Harmes and Brayshaw are all picked, which was nearly every game this year, which one plays the outside role?

We're ranked 3rd in clearance differential this year, despite our horrid performance, so 'winning the aggot' is not an issue at all, the issue is how we use it and our ability to spread and make space.

And it shouldn't really have to be stated, but we're not going to be bringing in high quality outside players who answer our problems in return for trading the depth players you mentioned.

The crux of this thread is that you have to trade quality to get quality.

9 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

The crux of this thread is that you have to trade quality to get quality.

Yes, and can the club trade Viney rather than Brayshaw please 

45 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Yes, and can the club trade Viney rather than Brayshaw please 

Personally that's what I would do if we had to trade one of them. I think both will probably be with us next year though.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Personally that's what I would do if we had to trade one of them. I think both will probably be with us next year though.

I think though you would get more for Brayshaw than you would for Viney? isntt hat your agument LN? to get something, you gotta give something? Im a Jack Viney fan, putting that on the record and i have before, but i think Brayshaw's currency would be higher.

I think Carlton would be very interested in Brayshaw to support Cripps now that they have missed out on Coniglio, do that trade, and have Picks 3 and 8 at the draft instead of 11 and 13, or split pick 3 for 11 & 13 and trade Brayshaw for pick 8 and then have 3 picks inside the top 15.

Good hand?

10 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

I think though you would get more for Brayshaw than you would for Viney? isntt hat your agument LN? to get something, you gotta give something? Im a Jack Viney fan, putting that on the record and i have before, but i think Brayshaw's currency would be higher.

I think Carlton would be very interested in Brayshaw to support Cripps now that they have missed out on Coniglio, do that trade, and have Picks 3 and 8 at the draft instead of 11 and 13, or split pick 3 for 11 & 13 and trade Brayshaw for pick 8 and then have 3 picks inside the top 15.

Good hand?

There was a story going around today where Barrett was saying that Carlton were considering making a big money offer for a contracted gun midfielder. First name I thought of was Gus, but that's probably mainly due to my MFC bias.

Hard to know their comparative values after this year. I'm not saying we trade away whomever has the most value, I'm just saying if we want something good we have to provide value, so I think we could get a high quality outside mid for a Viney trade, but really it's academic as I just couldn't imagine the club ever trading him.

I'm harsh on them, and certain aspects of their game, but I'm a fan of both Viney and Gus. I don't want to trade either, but I'm trying to look at it coldly and find ways to improve our deficiencies.

I haven't followed it super closely, but from what I've heard said it's not a fantastic draft so I wouldn't be super keen on trading players just for picks that we then take to the draft.

Edited September 2, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

20 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

There was a story going around today where Barrett was saying that Carlton were considering making a big money offer for a contracted gun midfielder. First name I thought of was Gus, but that's probably mainly due to my MFC bias.

Hard to know their comparative values after this year. I'm not saying we trade away whomever has the most value, I'm just saying if we want something good we have to provide value, so I think we could get a high quality outside mid for a Viney trade, but really it's academic as I just couldn't imagine the club ever trading him.

I'm harsh on them, and certain aspects of their game, but I'm a fan of both Viney and Gus. I don't want to trade either, but I'm trying to look at it coldly and find ways to improve our deficiencies.

I haven't followed it super closely, but from what I've heard said it's not a fantastic draft so I wouldn't be super keen on trading players just for picks that we then take to the draft.

all good points LN, especially the bold sentence. I'm a fan of both and in the cold hard light of day, i think deep down i would prefer both to stay.

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

all good points LN, especially the bold sentence. I'm a fan of both and in the cold hard light of day, i think deep down i would prefer both to stay.

Yeah for sure, ideally we bring in players to compliment them without losing them. Hoping Mahoney can get back to his circa-2015 form when he was ahead of the pack in a lot ways at trade time. Feels like as big an offseason for him as it is for the club.

6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yeah for sure, ideally we bring in players to compliment them without losing them. Hoping Mahoney can get back to his circa-2015 form when he was ahead of the pack in a lot ways at trade time. Feels like as big an offseason for him as it is for the club.

Some very good discussion here

Soooo

Out Brayshaw

In Langdon, Amon, Young? (or trade for King)

Am I reading that right?

Some at the edges trades, not to say they're not important, but this seems to address some apparent glaring issues.

3 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Some very good discussion here

Soooo

Out Brayshaw

In Langdon, Amon, Young? (or trade for King)

Am I reading that right?

Some at the edges trades, not to say they're not important, but this seems to address some apparent glaring issues.

Out: Brayshaw, pick 20

In: Langdon, Hill or Cerra

Swap of later picks