Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

Delete my post here please mods.

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

If intelligence is solely linked to our performance in front of a camera primarily interviews and press conferences then we must all be pretty [censored] stupid. 

Unless you've sat down and had an open one on one chat with each coach there's really no way to know how intelligent any of them are. 

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:02, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

  On 14/06/2019 at 01:04, chookrat said:

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

Rankings 12 - 16 were hard to separate no doubt. Pykey’s mad stare did convey a certain willingness to ‘get loose’. A bit of Jedi mind trickery if you will. Extra point loading for that.

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:02, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

Edited June 14, 20195 yr by Engorged Onion

Crikey, I'm just glad our coach made the list.

I'd have Hinkley way down the list.

Sounds like a bush league coach with a year 9 education.

  On 14/06/2019 at 02:18, Engorged Onion said:

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

I'm going to look at it as a hurdle requirement; you need to pass a certain level but beyond that it becomes less important.

I must say, it is weird not just seeing Buckley at the top of Matsuo's list, but realising that I'd probably agree. If I had to pick an AFL coach for a long session of free-ranging discussion of the world, it would probably be ol' Nate.

I'm on the cusp of not having any real problem with Collingwood (except a segment of their supporters), soon I'll be calling the Queen's Birthday game a 'jolly good show against a worthy rival'. Scary times.

  On 14/06/2019 at 02:18, Engorged Onion said:

There are two types of people in this world @Matsuo Basho those that can infer things from incomplete data and...

Well considering the last 3 premierships have come from your positions of 6, 7 and 9, I'd suggest, you either don't want to have too much IQ or too little IQ as judged by some bloke... therefore the inference that it is relevant to obtaining a premiership is that it a) is, b) is not  c) choose your own adventure.

I’ve always divided the world into two types of people as well EO. Pedestrians that acknowledge with a quick nod or wave the vehicle and driver that comes to a courteous stop at a zebra crossing ... and the blinkered automatons who don’t. 

Also dogs. People who don’t go gaga over a happy dog with a wagging tail are a bit strange IMO.

Not too sure when it comes to coaches, but surely we'd be anchored near the bottom if we're measuring playing list IQ levels.

  On 14/06/2019 at 01:04, chookrat said:

Re Don Pyke, did him staring at his players Tony Abbot style when we smashed them last year have any weighting and if so ehat was its impact? 

The impact is that neither Tony or Don are in line for coaching Manly Warringah.

It is almost impossible to know the answer to this as it all happens behind closed doors.  Roos seemed like the most boring bloke ever when he was coach but he clearly had a lot of good ideas and could lead and motivate

end results prove IQ.  So Clarkson on top by a straight.

I like Simon's drive and intensity. he clearly has some qualities that Roos/PJ identified and he took us to a prelim last year.  let's see how he goes over the next few years and hopefully longer

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:02, Matsuo Basho said:

The obvious question following on from this of course is -

Is there a limit to your vanity?

To be able to differentiate at the top of the list you'd need to have a higher IQ than all of them.

Briefly analysing my index, breaking it up into “top 8 ranked coaches” and “bottom 8 ranked coaches” you’ll find that in the eight seasons since 2011:

A) 7 of the “top 8” coached flags. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Beveridge).

B) 6 of the “top 8” coached their side to runner up in the GF. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Pyke).

C) 4 of the “bottom 8” have gotten their sides into preliminary finals as opposed to all eight of the “top 8” coaches. 

Telling? Rubbery figures? Pseudo-intellectual dreck? 

Over to you folks.

Edited June 14, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

  On 14/06/2019 at 04:21, Fifty-5 said:

Is there a limit to your vanity?

To be able to differentiate at the top of the list you'd need to have a higher IQ than all of them.

Anyone who would show up with manboobs and a beergut to give others directives on discipline and pushing themselves has got to be suspect. So I’ve at least got Stewie “Mountain” Dew covered.

Im with LittleGoffy on this one. Bucks would be a great fireside chat over Barossa red. Clarko and the smarter Scott brother, yeah. Rossy Lyon might start to bore me after 45 minutes. Kenny Hinkley and Lukey Beveridge the surprise packets, really coming into their own later in the evening when proceedings move to the officer’s bunker for a Glenfiddich single malt.

Bevo was a tax man at Austrac. 

Don Pyke I believe ran a mining company. 

Clarko was a PE teacher. Not usually a position that requires great intelligence.

Buckley has refined media skills from his playing and media days but took years to use that to his advantage. 

Hardwick has a great feel for his players. But his coaching career changed dramatically when Balme - a failed coach - gave him great support.

Longmire I sense isn’t all that clever but he has excellent strength of character.

There’s never a perfect coach, there’s plenty of ways to do it. 

In regards to Goodwin:

- High work ethic 

- Strong bond with players 

- Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches 

- keeps calm in the coaches box and media 

I get the feeling he has a few blindspots with things he doesn’t know. The management of injuries fits there. 

And I think he could go to another level if he showed more of his personality at times. I get why coaches are guarded but I’d like to see him open up. 

Both of those faults can easily improve with experience and support around him. 

  On 14/06/2019 at 05:40, DeeSpencer said:

In regards to Goodwin:

- High work ethic 

- Strong bond with players 

- Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches 

- keeps calm in the coaches box and media 

I get the feeling he has a few blindspots with things he doesn’t know. The management of injuries fits there. 

And I think he could go to another level if he showed more of his personality at times. I get why coaches are guarded but I’d like to see him open up. 

Both of those faults can easily improve with experience and support around him. 

Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches . . . 

Surely you're pulling my leg DeeSpencer?

  On 13/06/2019 at 23:02, Matsuo Basho said:

Having listened to all 18 coaches speak or give interviews on multiple occasions it has struck me that some are obviously blessed with greater oratory skills and depth and breadth of intelligence than others. I’m not talking about mere footy industry lingo intelligence (which is a given) but real world intelligence and an ability to really engage and surprise in the way they communicate. Whether through humour, anecdote, analysis or reflection, they just show a lateral mindedness which fascinates beyond the mere regurgitation of stats, KPI’s and let’s call it “whiteboard word play”. 

I’m wondering if other ‘Landers would agree or disagree with me on this, or with my AFL Coach IQ Index below which ranks the eighteen coaches as I view them on my personal gut feel estimation of their combined general/football/emotional/‘street’ intelligence. The obvious question following on from this of course is - “does it really matter in that coach/clubs’s quest for a premiership and if so why or why not?”.

Here’s my index:

1. Collingwood - Nathan Buckley

2. Hawthorn - Alistair Clarkson

3.  Geelong - Chris Scott

4. Fremantle - Ross Lyon

5. Port Adelaide - Ken Hinkley

6. West Coast - Adam Simpson

7. Richmond - Damian Hardwick 

8. Sydney - John Longmire 

9. Western Bulldogs - Luke Beveridge 

10. Brisbane Lions - Chris Fagan

11. Essendon - John Worsfold 

12. Adelaide - Don Pyke

13. GWS - Leon Cameron

14. Melbourne - Simon Goodwin

15. St Kilda - Alan Richardson 

16. Gold Coast - Stewart Dew 

Carlton, North - N/A

Hinkley at 5? Have i missed something here?

Edited June 14, 20195 yr by Win4theAges

Overall, I think your list is pretty good.

What about Emotional Intelligence?  

Bevo is hardly done by I reckon, but your top 3 is indisputable.

Rossy would eat anyone for breakfast though with pure footy IQ.  Probably finding his EI lately.

 

Fan rated Buckley early on and it looks like he was eventually proven correct.

 

SA have dumb and dumber over there, so Ken shouldn't be that high.

As far as Goody goes, gee wiz, only Krusty the Clown wouldn't have played Jordan Lewis and Nathan Jones on the wide open wings of the G in their twilight years, but he has a mulligan.

 

 

 

  On 14/06/2019 at 06:05, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Willing to try new plans and adapt far more than a lot of AFL coaches . . . 

Surely you're pulling my leg DeeSpencer?

Longmire hasn't made a move in a decade.
Pyke never does anything different including when watching a grand final slip away.
Brad Scott did the same thing over again
Richo has plan A which is pressure and that's it
Ross Lyon's had the same plan for years
Leon Cameron has the Ferrari almost always running in straight lines
Worsfold can't fix Essendon's all or nothing plan

The coaches who try things are:
Clarkson
Hardwick
Bevo - way too much since the Premiership
Chris Scott adapts each year
And Kenny Hinkley mixed it up as well

Goodwin's plan with moving the ball and defending has been reasonably consistent. That's plan A and it's clearly what he believes in.
But he regularly makes personnel changes looking for a better balance and he changes things within games to mix things up every time the team is struggling. In both of the last 2 seasons he's made changes to try to sure up the defensive side of the game - last year it was Maxy behind the ball, this year it's been a dedicated focus on transition running after an awful start.

A lot of Melbourne supporters miss things because they are frustrated with the side but even against the Pies:
- Spargo starts on the wing given the job on Tom Phillips
- Frost's injury sends Fritsch back who was playing forward
- Petracca and Hannan get moved up around the ball to create more numbers at the stoppages
- Hunt moves on to the wing to add more pace
- Fritsch/Hunt/Hannan/T Mac/Garlett/Petracca all tried as the deepest forward looking for a match up

 

As for commentators,

 

Robbo looks very simple and probably is.

Dermie tries to appear like a professor when he really is a mechanic.

Carey's IQ is overrated.

Matty Lloyd, even though he allegedly needed outside help at StBs to get his VCE (Hardwick reference), has a very very good footy IQ.  Rarely sits on the fence.  Goes hard and early.

  On 14/06/2019 at 04:27, Matsuo Basho said:

Briefly analysing my index, breaking it up into “top 8 ranked coaches” and “bottom 8 ranked coaches” you’ll find that in the eight seasons since 2011:

A) 7 of the “top 8” coached flags. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Beveridge).

B) 6 of the “top 8” coached their side to runner up in the GF. Only 1 from the “bottom 8” (Pyke).

C) 4 of the “bottom 8” have gotten their sides into preliminary finals as opposed to all eight of the “top 8” coaches. 

Telling? Rubbery figures? Pseudo-intellectual dreck? 

Over to you folks.

Think you might find worsfold at number 11 got a couple of flags in the bank